Atomizer gets Hot

[Terraphon]

Ok...I'll throw my hat in. Let's see how long it takes for someone to start flaming me...

Nice to see even the simplest of questions can result in a brawl....

Its going to be a little difficult to get a cold vape from a dual coil rda. Buzzlove gave some good advice. Spaced coils and a .28 ga wire will reduce the heat some. A really long drip tip will cool it off too.
Big airflow. The harder you draw, the cooler your vape will be. More air=less heat.

This, in theory, but...

Spaced coils at 5 wraps per (as he mentioned) would drop the resistance, resulting in a higher amperage draw on the battery and also increasing the heat of the coils during the "draw" time due to quicker ramp up. What we should do here is to go up in AWG until we can get the same resistance from 5 wraps as we would from 10. 28 MAY do the trick v 24 but I'm not looking at the ohm's per foot so I'm not sure how it translates off the top of my head.

Regardless, the quicker ramp up time is going to lead to more heat production during the draw.

At the end of the day, the only way to get a cooler vapor is to increase the airflow which, in turn, cools the vapor and the coils. This will also allow more draws from the atty before it heats up as much.

The long drip tip concept sounds good in theory but thermodynamics tells us that all of the various elements of a system will attempt to achieve thermal equilibrium. This means that as the coils heat up, the air around them heats up. As the air around them heats up, the body of the atty will heat up. As the body of the atty heats up, the drip tip will heat up. As all of these things heat up, they will keep the vapor from losing a considerable amount of heat as it moves.

So knowing all of this, the only way to efficiently cool this system is to introduce something which is cooler than the other parts. In this case, air from the surrounding environment. The more air you introduce, the longer it takes to heat that air and the more that air is working to cool the surrounding elements of the overall system. Just the same as if you put ice in a pot of boiling water...the ice cools the water as the water melts the ice.

The more ice you put in, the harder it is for the water to melt that ice because that state of equilibrium must (must MUST) be achieved, thus it will take longer. In the end, though, the boiling water will always win out, unless you remove it from the heat source. This also applies in the comment about getting the coils closer to the air holes. The closer they are, the less time the system has to equalize the temperature of the incoming air. Think about putting the ice near the boiling water as opposed to putting it IN the boiling water. The closer the 2 elements are, the greater effect they will have on one another. Ergo, the incoming air will heat up faster but it will also cool more efficiently. Thermal equilibrium.

Also keep in mind that no matter how much air you take in, the heat will always win as long as it is being constantly applied. The longer it is applied, the hotter it will get unless you are introducing air which is the exact negative of the heat of the coils, in which case they simply cancel each other out, reach equilibrium at 0 and go out for a beer. Since we're not doing that, it is clear that the longer we heat the coils, the hotter the system will become and since the generated vapor is a part of that system...you see where I'm going with this.

This is some pretty complex physics but I tried to clean it up and make it as easy to understand as possible. Hope it helps.

 

[Asbestos4004]

Why would you get flamed for that? Its a lot more civil than your previous 2 posts. It was informative and helpful, not pretentious and elitist. Well done, my friend.
My post was simply to try and cool off his vape....not his atty. Chain vape a dual coil RDA and there will be heat. He said the vapor was hotter than he would like... My suggestions were geared toward cooling it down.

 

[Terraphon]

Why would you get flamed for that? Its a lot more civil than your previous 2 posts. It was informative and helpful, not pretentious and elitist. Well done, my friend.

This is ECF...Since the very beginning, posting anything which made sense, used logic and didn't involve "MOAR, BECAUSE MOAR" has been flamebait. It's why I have hardly posted here since way back...because if someone wants to learn something, half the time they're afraid to ask for fear of being ridiculed and the other half the time, they ask, a good answer is posted and everyone else on the forum calls the answerer an idiot because what they are saying doesn't conform to whatever some random yutz on youtube said.

My post was simply to try and cool off his vape....not his atty. Chain vape a dual coil RDA and there will be heat. He said the vapor was hotter than he would like... My suggestions were geared toward cooling it down.

Understood. Short term, those things will work. What I was trying to do was give an understanding of how the closed system works because those are all considerations which I feel have to be taken into account whilst building. I'm at the point now where I can run a 40 watt build (roughly what OP is running) and it's cool as a cucumber but that has come with knowledge and experience. Hopefully, some of the knowledge is now there for OP...the experience will, of course, come...

 

[crxess]

Ok...I'll throw my hat in. Let's see how long it takes for someone to start flaming me...



This, in theory, but...

Spaced coils at 5 wraps per (as he mentioned) would drop the resistance, resulting in a higher amperage draw on the battery and also increasing the heat of the coils during the "draw" time due to quicker ramp up. What we should do here is to go up in AWG until we can get the same resistance from 5 wraps as we would from 10. 28 MAY do the trick v 24 but I'm not looking at the ohm's per foot so I'm not sure how it translates off the top of my head.

Regardless, the quicker ramp up time is going to lead to more heat production during the draw.

At the end of the day, the only way to get a cooler vapor is to increase the airflow which, in turn, cools the vapor and the coils. This will also allow more draws from the atty before it heats up as much.

The long drip tip concept sounds good in theory but thermodynamics tells us that all of the various elements of a system will attempt to achieve thermal equilibrium. This means that as the coils heat up, the air around them heats up. As the air around them heats up, the body of the atty will heat up. As the body of the atty heats up, the drip tip will heat up. As all of these things heat up, they will keep the vapor from losing a considerable amount of heat as it moves.

So knowing all of this, the only way to efficiently cool this system is to introduce something which is cooler than the other parts. In this case, air from the surrounding environment. The more air you introduce, the longer it takes to heat that air and the more that air is working to cool the surrounding elements of the overall system. Just the same as if you put ice in a pot of boiling water...the ice cools the water as the water melts the ice.

The more ice you put in, the harder it is for the water to melt that ice because that state of equilibrium must (must MUST) be achieved, thus it will take longer. In the end, though, the boiling water will always win out, unless you remove it from the heat source. This also applies in the comment about getting the coils closer to the air holes. The closer they are, the less time the system has to equalize the temperature of the incoming air. Think about putting the ice near the boiling water as opposed to putting it IN the boiling water. The closer the 2 elements are, the greater effect they will have on one another. Ergo, the incoming air will heat up faster but it will also cool more efficiently. Thermal equilibrium.

Also keep in mind that no matter how much air you take in, the heat will always win as long as it is being constantly applied. The longer it is applied, the hotter it will get unless you are introducing air which is the exact negative of the heat of the coils, in which case they simply cancel each other out, reach equilibrium at 0 and go out for a beer. Since we're not doing that, it is clear that the longer we heat the coils, the hotter the system will become and since the generated vapor is a part of that system...you see where I'm going with this.

This is some pretty complex physics but I tried to clean it up and make it as easy to understand as possible. Hope it helps.

You will not get any flaming from me. This would have been the best first course of instruction.

As to my Post, this

I can't even be bothered to sort you people out because I am 100% convinced the vast majority of you won't listen due to vape-egos.

Followed by this:

Then read a bit about thermodynamics, battery chemistry, safe battery use, etc

1) The vast majority do not know what they are talking about - (maybe some of us simplify to help out the inexperienced)
2) I know, will not bother
3)Go find out for your self

If I read that wrong, well we all tend to interpret what is posted.

Your follow up was excellent.

 

[alicewonderland]

I think a few people in here need to learn a little (lot) more about ohms law...and thermodynamics / thermal conductivity. I've been around for...well, a little while and I've honestly never seen so much bad advice and misunderstanding in a single thread, ever.

I can't even be bothered to sort you people out because I am 100% convinced the vast majority of you won't listen due to vape-egos.

What I will say is this; To OP: Yes, your atty should get hot...this would be very normal under these conditions. Also, please please please please please learn ohm's law like the back of your hand. Then read a bit about thermodynamics, battery chemistry, safe battery use, etc...The life you save could be your own...literally.

I just want to know what's wrong, pointing out some would definitely help prevent people from taking some advice as law. Especially if one of them who was wrong was me, then I'd probably have to go back study some more because I think the advice I gave was good? But now im questioning myself because obviously you know better but didn't say anything other than people are giving bad advice? Please correct those of us that are wrong, it will help. But generally from what I found, in a mech mod if you're running at constant volts, higher ohms results in less current and power which is less heat? So if he raised his resistance would he not get less heat?

 

[Robino1]

Ok...I'll throw my hat in. Let's see how long it takes for someone to start flaming me...



This, in theory, but...

Spaced coils at 5 wraps per (as he mentioned) would drop the resistance, resulting in a higher amperage draw on the battery and also increasing the heat of the coils during the "draw" time due to quicker ramp up. What we should do here is to go up in AWG until we can get the same resistance from 5 wraps as we would from 10. 28 MAY do the trick v 24 but I'm not looking at the ohm's per foot so I'm not sure how it translates off the top of my head.

Regardless, the quicker ramp up time is going to lead to more heat production during the draw.

At the end of the day, the only way to get a cooler vapor is to increase the airflow which, in turn, cools the vapor and the coils. This will also allow more draws from the atty before it heats up as much.

The long drip tip concept sounds good in theory but thermodynamics tells us that all of the various elements of a system will attempt to achieve thermal equilibrium. This means that as the coils heat up, the air around them heats up. As the air around them heats up, the body of the atty will heat up. As the body of the atty heats up, the drip tip will heat up. As all of these things heat up, they will keep the vapor from losing a considerable amount of heat as it moves.

So knowing all of this, the only way to efficiently cool this system is to introduce something which is cooler than the other parts. In this case, air from the surrounding environment. The more air you introduce, the longer it takes to heat that air and the more that air is working to cool the surrounding elements of the overall system. Just the same as if you put ice in a pot of boiling water...the ice cools the water as the water melts the ice.

The more ice you put in, the harder it is for the water to melt that ice because that state of equilibrium must (must MUST) be achieved, thus it will take longer. In the end, though, the boiling water will always win out, unless you remove it from the heat source. This also applies in the comment about getting the coils closer to the air holes. The closer they are, the less time the system has to equalize the temperature of the incoming air. Think about putting the ice near the boiling water as opposed to putting it IN the boiling water. The closer the 2 elements are, the greater effect they will have on one another. Ergo, the incoming air will heat up faster but it will also cool more efficiently. Thermal equilibrium.

Also keep in mind that no matter how much air you take in, the heat will always win as long as it is being constantly applied. The longer it is applied, the hotter it will get unless you are introducing air which is the exact negative of the heat of the coils, in which case they simply cancel each other out, reach equilibrium at 0 and go out for a beer. Since we're not doing that, it is clear that the longer we heat the coils, the hotter the system will become and since the generated vapor is a part of that system...you see where I'm going with this.

This is some pretty complex physics but I tried to clean it up and make it as easy to understand as possible. Hope it helps.

This was perfect for me to understand, and that is saying a LOT. I am not mechanically inclined and most of the tech talk goes right over my head. You put this in a way that makes total sense to me. Thank you!