ATR strikes again

[DrMA]

After the resounding opening salvo, ATR released another strike against TC reinforced positions on the left-wing of the ANTZ battlefield against the public & our health.

New CDC Data: More Than 9 Million Adults Vape Regularly in the United States

 

[AndriaD]

Magnificent article -- tweeted! This is EXACTLY what needs to be reported in ALL the media! How those bloodsucking leeches have been hollering for years for us to quit, and raising taxes to motivate us to do it -- and now want to tax the very thing that's actually helping millions of people quit! AAAAARRRRGHHHHHHHHHHH!

Andria

 

[Kent C]

Really a well written article hitting on all important points. This is a good one:

"With the growing number of adult e-cigarette consumers in the United States, vapers represent a significant single-issue voting bloc. Candidates for federal, state, and local office would be wise to recognize this constituency as the latest addition to the “Leave Us Alone” coalition, especially in swing states and close elections."


The Grover Norquist Show: Leave Vapers Alone

Grover Norquist: Anti-Vaping Agenda will Lose Elections

 

[AndriaD]

Really a well written article hitting on all important points. This is a good one:

"With the growing number of adult e-cigarette consumers in the United States, vapers represent a significant single-issue voting bloc. Candidates for federal, state, and local office would be wise to recognize this constituency as the latest addition to the “Leave Us Alone” coalition, especially in swing states and close elections."


The Grover Norquist Show: Leave Vapers Alone

Grover Norquist: Anti-Vaping Agenda will Lose Elections

20 million Americans???? No poop? I think any elected officials would be WELL advised to pay attention to vapers; that's a pretty significant block of votes! And when you consider that those 20 million are evidently quite proactive, to switch to vaping from smoking, I'd be willing to bet that most of them are voters, too.

Andria

 

[RaccoonChad]

Best comment: "That's also about 9 million voters".

Hell yes.

 

[Kent C]

I think any elected officials would be WELL advised to pay attention to vapers

Well, even the 9 million vapers are more than many well known 'single/multiple issue' voting blocs who affect election results. NRA has @5 million members, NEA 2.4 million... just for two big groups.

 

[EBates]

Amen Brothers and Sisters!!!
Put The Supporters Of This Type Of Prohibition On The Street! They Have Proven That They DO NOT Represent Us!
I'm Mad As Hell And I'm Not Gonna Take It Anymore!!!

 

[Rossum]

the “Leave Us Alone” coalition

 

[DrMA]

I look forward to a crushing defeat of all the libiots who've been slandering vaping these past few years and hopefully extensive collateral damage to other Dems at all levels.

 

[Blind Owl]

Good article: brief, obviously true, and straight to the point(s).

The trumped-up hysteria over vaping is proof—if further proof were needed—that to politicians at least, tobacco revenue is more viciously addictive than tobacco is or ever was.

 

[navigator2011]

"With the growing number of adult e-cigarette consumers in the United States, vapers represent a significant single-issue voting bloc. Candidates for federal, state, and local office would be wise to recognize this constituency as the latest addition to the “Leave Us Alone” coalition, especially in swing states and close elections."

This is why I'm not so sure the White House wants to be seen killing an entire industry during a campaign year--just bad optics and fodder. I wouldn't be surprised to find they're spending more time weighing the fallout than anything else.

 

[Kent C]

This is why I'm not so sure the White House wants to be seen killing an entire industry during a campaign year--just bad optics and fodder. I wouldn't be surprised to find they're spending more time weighing the fallout than anything else.

I agree. And I didn't think that your comment on the other thread meant that you thought people should stop writing emails or not do CTA's. They may 'weigh' some of those.

 

[Ckitt]

Something sticks out in the last paragraph of that anti-vaping agenda article.

"Strangely, the Democrats under President Bill Clinton were the very people who pushed for the huge tax increases on tobacco cigarettes back in the 1990’s as a way to save hundreds of thousands of lives. Yet, now these same politicians want to tax the very industry that has helped millions of Americans to quit smoking. According to Norquist, it just doesn’t add up." (Rowland, rastavapors.com, 2015)

^^This actually adds up more than one thinks it does. Americans love our vices, whether its gambling, alcohol, tobacco or vaping. Before we started vaping, we pretty much thumbed our noses at the price increase of cigarettes due to taxes, and continued to smoke. So it just seems natural for the current government to assume that we would do the same thing with vaping if they taxed it. I'm not saying it makes it right, nor am I saying that I agree with it, all I'm saying is that if we have proven one thing, we will continue to purchase things we want because we want them, whether or not there is a tax laid heavily upon them.

 

[Rossum]

^^This actually adds up more than one thinks it does. Americans love our vices, whether its gambling, alcohol, tobacco or vaping. Before we started vaping, we pretty much thumbed our noses at the price increase of cigarettes due to taxes, and continued to smoke. So it just seems natural for the current government to assume that we would do the same thing with vaping if they taxed it. I'm not saying it makes it right, nor am I saying that I agree with it, all I'm saying is that if we have proven one thing, we will continue to purchase things we want because we want them, whether or not there is a tax laid heavily upon them.

Yeah, that was me when I was smoking.

But I'm done with smoking and I'm done with paying their dang "sin" taxes. It's not that I can't afford it, it's a matter of principle. For what I used to spend on cigarettes in 3 months, I can put a lifetime's worth of nic base in the freezer and never give them another dime.....

 

[Kent C]

we pretty much thumbed our noses at the price increase of cigarettes due to taxes, and continued to smoke.

"We" - Zeller's 'hard core smokers' did, but the doubling of the tobacco tax by Clinton did result in a dropping of that 25% plateau of smokers. See the downhill just prior to the lines crossing, when the tax was in the news and then enacted.... The 'cigarettes sold' vs. adult smokers graph, while similar, shows the plateaus there and the pre-ecig area better, showing a drop after the 2010 ecig boom.

 

[Ckitt]

Yeah, that was me when I was smoking.

But I'm done with smoking and I'm done with paying their dang "sin" taxes. It's not that I can't afford it, it's a matter of principle. For what I used to spend on cigarettes in 3 months, I can put a lifetime's worth of nic base in the freezer and never give them another dime.....

Oh absolutely you can, any of us can and probably should. Not arguing the benefits of doing that vs. the drawbacks associated with not doing it. The point I was making though is exactly what I said, We will continue to buy what we want because we want it, regardless of whether or not there is a tax on it. That is wired into a human at the genetic level, humans see something shiny, and a little voice starts saying how nice it would be to have it.

Also, so I'm not responding in two different posts @Kent C,

Zeller's 'hard core smokers' did

That's just arguing semantics. Number's don't lie, obviously your graph is correct and is showing the sharp decline since the tax, but were you part of that decline at that time? I know I wasn't, so if you weren't either, than you and I together make "we", but I wouldn't have considered myself one of Zeller's 'hard core smokers' either, just someone who was dumb and ignorant of all the evidence against them at the time.

 

[Kent C]

That's just arguing semantics.

That's not semantics - it's the 'we' where the tax didn't take - just as the graph shows. As far as the 'reason' for the hard core - you're right, it can come from ignorance or full knowledge and a cost/benefit calculation - still part of the 'hard core'.

The leveling off at 22-23% during the early 2000's when even more taxes were added fed, state and local - and the big push by FDA/CDC/major media, et al - didn't budge the stat. Only ecigs did and now it's dropping more - esp. with teen smoking.

 

[AndriaD]

That's not semantics - it's the 'we' where the tax didn't take - just as the graph shows. As far as the 'reason' for the hard core - you're right, it can come from ignorance or full knowledge and a cost/benefit calculation - still part of the 'hard core'.

The leveling off at 22-23% during the early 2000's when even more taxes were added fed, state and local - and the big push by FDA/CDC/major media, et al - didn't budge the stat. Only ecigs did and now it's dropping more - esp. with teen smoking.

I was very much a "hard core smoker", though I smoked ultralights, and I did cut down considerably -- by buying 120's, so I could smoke each one twice! GA does have lower cig taxes than a lot of other places, but even when $176/mo was almost more than we were spending on food -- because we couldn't spend more, we didn't have it! -- I still had to have that $176 worth of cigarettes every month, and believed I would be smoking my pk a day until I died of it. Until e-cigs. Now I vape, and I have about 10 yrs worth of nic in my freezer, and it will be a very frosty day in hell before they'll get another cent of sin tax out of me.

Andria