Attn: atomizer rebuilders

[crazyhorse]

Those crimping pins are pretty small. The problem I see with anything like that or with a connector made out of breadboard is space although a disc of breadboard would be perfect if it could replace the juice cup.

Next week I'll get serious about constructing the best coil out of #36 NiCr. Then I'll build an actual atomizer with solid 20 AWG copper leads and short needle sockets that extend slightly above the surface of the juice cup. While this should work as a bridgeless dripper, a functional cartridge mod will be the deal-breaker for me. I don't have the patience to deal with dripping.

I've been studying the properties of various conductive pastes and it looks like plain ol' Ox-Gard may be as good of a solution as any. Time and testing will tell the tale.

 

[crazyhorse]

I guess it's time for an update on my project. The update is there's no update. I haven't had a day off since my last posting so I haven't worked on atomizers.

 

[Vaporer]

Hi guys. Made it back from vacation and I must say vapin on the beach is something I could get used to. Glad I bought a Dura C before leaving. The sound and wind kept all my autos on and hot!
The weather left me quite a mess to clean up. Downed trees from lightning strikes, a dammed up creek that re-dams with every rain from upstream debris......the list goes on.

I should have some pics to post this week from my "plug in" coil project. I dont have any failed attys to try it on. The one I had was my 1st disassembly and a slippage crushed the cup beyond repair. It had a wire broken from the threaded connector. Exposed bridge type from a Blu atty. Blu's attys measure 3.4ohms vs my Mini Fogger & Dura C which are mostly 3.0ohms. One measured 2.7 .

I've read the entire thread with great interest. I see all the coils are wrapped on a form. Close inspection of my failed Blu, prior to disassembly, had no evidence of a wick/form and it produced great vapor. I examined a couple of new ones and see no signs of one.
I had used it daily and cleaned it for abt a month. Slightly spaced wraps with no core greatly increases the exposed heating surface and the coil I reference was going strong failing far from the coil.
I would prefer to avoid the possibility of inhaling fibers and a ceramic core will heat sink the coil seemingly reducing the efficiency. Unless the ceramic reaches a temp that vaporizes the atomized liquid.
Not trying to be critical of any ones work, just thinking out loud.

Great work so far to all.

 

[kinabaloo]

Hi guys. Made it back from vacation and I must say vapin on the beach is something I could get used to. Glad I bought a Dura C before leaving. The sound and wind kept all my autos on and hot!
The weather left me quite a mess to clean up. Downed trees from lightning strikes, a dammed up creek that re-dams with every rain from upstream debris......the list goes on.

I should have some pics to post this week from my "plug in" coil project. I dont have any failed attys to try it on. The one I had was my 1st disassembly and a slippage crushed the cup beyond repair. It had a wire broken from the threaded connector. Exposed bridge type from a Blu atty. Blu's attys measure 3.4ohms vs my Mini Fogger & Dura C which are mostly 3.0ohms. One measured 2.7 .

I've read the entire thread with great interest. I see all the coils are wrapped on a form. Close inspection of my failed Blu, prior to disassembly, had no evidence of a wick/form and it produced great vapor. I examined a couple of new ones and see no signs of one.
I had used it daily and cleaned it for abt a month. Slightly spaced wraps with no core greatly increases the exposed heating surface and the coil I reference was going strong failing far from the coil.
I would prefer to avoid the possibility of inhaling fibers and a ceramic core will heat sink the coil seemingly reducing the efficiency. Unless the ceramic reaches a temp that vaporizes the atomized liquid.
Not trying to be critical of any ones work, just thinking out loud.

Great work so far to all.

Actually, ceramic is an very poor heat conductor, which is good.

 

[Vaporer]

You are right on the ceramic. Especially considering an average puff is only 5-10 secs.
This raises many possibilities to me. I could be wrong, that sure wouldn't be a first. lol

The Blu 3.4ohm coil has no form and will run cooler due to higher resistance, but has more exposed coil surface to vaporize.
The 510's at 3ohms should be hotter, but as you say abt the ceramic its a poor heat conductor and may be the surface that allows gunk to start forming since its cooler. It may be needed in the 2.7ohm to actually hold its shape and prevent sagging. 2.7ohms would be hotter yet.
The 3.0ohm fiber cores could adsorb some free liquid and help vapoize it as a direct contact wick. This would cool them a bit on running temp, but also leaves a cooler surface especially at the begining of the puff to start a gunk formation.

I have noticed that some flavors are more pronounced using the Blu. The same liquid tastes diff in the 510 styles.
Also, I've read of people complaining abt a burnt taste that cant be removed with cleaning. Possibly the wick has broken down and lost in cleanings? The extra heat may be burning the juice.

Just more thoughts to consider.......

 

[nubee]

Hi,

I'm fairly new to vaping and just born to any atty mods but I started out with the Red Draggon ecig. The reviewers liked the fact that each cart came with its own atty so you basically got a new one each time.

I looked it over and rather than the verical/drip approach, it seems to have a round, wound gauze-like cart filler around a verical atty-rod (sort of a horizontal drip).

Wondering if that would simplify the construction of the coil and possibly the connections as they may be simple manual contacts.

 

[Vaporer]

Any possibilty you could post some pics?

I just rebuilt my DSE601 pipe, converting it to a manual and replaced the atty coil. Working fine!
I took photos of all of it and will have a post on the atty part here and the rest will be posted in the 601 rebuilders thread.

Vaporer

 

[Vaporer]

After the DSE601 pipe manual conversion my atomizer failed 2 days later. Coil burnt out on one side. The 601's are virtually impossible to clean so they have a very limited life expectancy.
As you can see in the picture it was heavily carboned matching the to 2 feed points.
I rebuilt the atty without completely disassembling it. I soldered the wires to the new coil and fed it in from the top. To aid in soldering I electroplated the ends of the 36ga nichrome wire with copper. I built a "no wick" coil due to lack of materials. I've had attys that when cleaned had no wick and vaped very well. This one doesn't and will be getting a wick. I chatted with Carlos49 abt the silica wood stove rope he used.
This material looks very promising, but all I can find is the manufacturers site/description, No vendors. From the looks of the spool it may be hard to purchase just a 10' piece.
?High Temperature Insulation??alumina silica??colloidal silica??fiber materials??fiber silica??fused silica??high silica glass??high temperature cloth??high temperature fiber??high temperature silica??silica
I've seen it listed as small as 2mm dia. I might be able to strike a deal for 50-100' with the manufacturer. I'll send them an email and report back.

I plated the coil wire ends with copper ( Clean and Simple Electroplating ), wrapped the coil on a 1mm metal rod, soldered 30ga. enameled wire to it with a "hook & crimp" on each end. The bottom of the atty had a plastic disk glued in to remove and then I just probed with a needle to find the top layer of metal foam then peeled it back till the bottom of the ceramic cup was exposed. Removed the old coil and wires and fed the new one in from the top, on the form as far as I could. It actually went in easily if done slowly. Passing the one side under the bridge without deforming the coil is the worst part since both atty leads go into the cup on the same side of the bridge. After the coil is in place, bend the wires back up the outside of the atty band and tape them so the coil cannot move. Now put the 4 layers of the metal foam, disks with 2 holes in it, between the atty wires and fold the rest of the metal foam layers back down. The atty wires are now secure and the plastic disk can be slid on the atty wires and re-glued back into place. The failed circuit cooked the atty and melted the plastic disk cracking it in half.
This coil has more room to work than most I've seen.

I've considered making a plug in coil using IC socket connector pins. If the "cup" of the connector is to large, the connector can be drilled, using the cup hole as a guide, with a .005-.010 drill and pin vise from a jewelers set I have. The cup could be removed, the wire inserted in the pin, crimped, soldered and ready to plug in. The connectors plug in well to each other and can even be found gold plated. The cups could be glued to the bottom of the ceramic bowl as long as the metal foam isn't allowed to short them out.

Hope this will be of help to someone,

Vaporer

 

[HockerMagnum]

I have had some success with a Zippo lighter wick. Just had to remove the copper wires that help it maintain it's shape. Picked one up in a tobacco shop for less than two bucks.

Made a no bridge dripper coil for 801 atty.

 

[Vaporer]

Thanks Hocker,

I have some fiberglass mat that I could make a wick from, but the thought of inhaling any fibers that might break free bothers me. I also found a new replacement wick 4-5" dia for my kerosene heater. Its threads look pretty good. Non asbestos. Looks a like lighter wick material.

Has the coil burnt the Zippo wick to start carbon forming? With the nichrome surface oxidized the carbon could act like a shunt resistor inside coil reducing its performance.
I have no idea how conductive the oxidized surface of nichrome is. I have some I can measure though.

Vaporer

 

[Carlos49]

Vaporer very nice job !!! I really like the ides of the plated copper ends, I'll have to try that on my next one. You went about,the rebuild, the hard way, LOL, But what counts is the end product. Again great job!!

 

[Vaporer]

Actually, it wasnt hard getting it in. I wouldn't want to try a 510 atty! lol

With the electroplating, it says if your item turns black the voltage is to high.
Mine kept going black even with a AA battery reading .57v ! Distance between the penny and the wire counts too. Mine were abt 2" apart. I ended up putting a 1K resistor in the negative line and it plates pretty fast still and will try to blacken. A 4.7K would be better. The surface of the wire is just so small. I do have copper plated alligator clips though! lol

Vaporer

 

[crazyhorse]

This material looks very promising, but all I can find is the manufacturers site/description, No vendors. From the looks of the spool it may be hard to purchase just a 10' piece.

Any fireplace/stove store will have stove gasket. Most hardware stores sell it. You can buy it for around a dollar a foot.

This is what you're looking for.
Stove Gasket / Gasket Kits - Fireplace & Stove Repair - Ace Hardware
Buy seven feet of loose braid rope from Ace for $7.49. This is enough to wick up all the atomizers in China.

 

[Vaporer]

LOL
Hi Crazy, thanks for the link. Appreciate it.

I have some on the way. The good Silica type
The yarn/rope in the URL I posted looked like it wouldnt be as prominant to cracking and breaking as some have mentioned.
I havent seen the new silica type either.

I just now fed a wick through the coil with a needle and thread while it was still in the atty...lol...you should try that!
I figured I'd snap the coil, but nope. Got lucky and did have to reposition it over the feed holes. The copper plated solder job held well with all the stress and movement and I have been vaping it. It just had poor fog and flavor
It vapes like crazy now! 8-o All the flavor is back too
I have to admit I really didnt think it would make that much diff. I was wrong. Period.

My son is looking at me very strangly over my excitement.
Time to torture test that carbon blob to see what will eat it.

Have things calmed down enough for you to get started on yours yet?

Vaporer

 

[crazyhorse]

In theory, I like the grapho-glas for coil wick. In practice, the graphite impregnation helps prevent creosote from sticking to it in a wood stove. I know this as a fact because I use it. What I installed 10 years ago still looks good. I imagine our juice deposits are a similar problem. Hopefully the graphite will help prevent the build up of gunk.

It's rated for 1000° F continuous but I know it takes a +2000° F torch flame without going too weird at all. It's immune to the heat of a butane lighter but I don't know how hot that is. It just turns red hot in the flame and cools off in an instant when the flame is removed.

I don't think things will ever calm down. It seems to get worse every day. Yesterday I learned some renters moved out. They took their clothes and left everything else behind. Now I have a 2500 ft² house and 1400 ft² garage slammed full of crap that I have to get rid of. Fortunately it's in the county on many acres. Fire is a wonderful tool for reducing the volume of unwanted household goods.

 

[Vaporer]

Crazyhorse,

Sorry to hear that. Might want to hold off a bit before you have the fire to test the whole rope. They have more rights than I ever imagined when one moved out on me.
Evicting is worse I think. You might be required to hold that "test" off for 90 days.

I thought about using carbon fiber. I have 1, 2mm mm rod of it for my models. It has a binder so I burnt it off. Knowing carbon can conduct electricity, I burnt it till it was nice loose strands. It turned a nice red in a butane flame. I decided to measure it with a meter and 1/2" length was conductive to the tune of abt .2 ohms! That could short the coil. If the nichrome oxidation has a high resistance it might work. Or it could conduct on the 1st wrap of the coil and fry the wire in 1/2 on the 1st try. Need to measure a well cooked coil as a test.

Did you get the black or clear rope? I'm guessing black if its graphite impregnated.

Hang in there, it'll all work out. Just aggravating for now.

 

[crazyhorse]

Thanks amigo.

They call this rope "black" but it looks charcoal gray to me.

 

[jj2]

I notice some have successfully rebuilt atomizers.
Is there step by step instructions on doing this?
If so, direct me please.

I got a Toprol (DSE102) atty that has problems. The top half of the arch has come off. I've been sticking it back on and it still works but that won't last long.
Yes, I have others, but I want to rebuild the darn thing instead of trashing it.
I thought, since I have the lower half left, of trying to attach some steel mesh. Anyone tried it?

 

[kinabaloo]

Amorphous carbon is non-conductive so the deposit should not act as a current bypass; however, a surprising amount of tin was found in the deposit in compositional testing - but very unlikely to make the deposit's resistance any lower than 100s of ohms if not 1000s, so it's no worry. Any oxide film on the coil will also be non-conductive; in fact it might help prevent current flow through the juice; but that would be very small anyway. Seems the tin comes from the solder joints; 'pits' develop at the join, probably because of melting/softening of the alloy and electrochemical action of some sort. There is a good photo of these pits here: Cleaning the Atomiser

I agree that fibreglass (silica threads) is not ideal because of the danger of inhaling loose threads; these are too fine to see with the eye but can be seen with a magnifier - a good example can be seen in the article linked above. After all, asbestos is not chemically toxic, it is just the physical shape of the sharp fine threads that causes cell damage. Not sure how fiberglass rates in this respect, but unlikely to be completely benign. Just as the mesh of 'pyramid' tea bags avoids loose threads, perhaps we can find a meshed version of fibreglass ..?

Btw Vaporer, nice idea to copper-plate the nichrome wire ends

 

[Vaporer]

Thanks kinabaloo.
The asbestos fibers have hook & barb like ends so they are constantly irritating the area and cannot be expelled. Fiberglass is so sharp when broken it embeds in the lung and neither will dissolve from the bodys natural processes. As long as the wick stays wet I doubt much can be inhaled. The Zippo wick material should be fine as long as it doesnt dry out. The yarn link I posted I thought looked very promising. Its made to be sewn and flexed. It's the new high silica material. I looked for ceramic rod 1-2mm dia. No luck. I tendered the thought of pottery clay.........

jj2,
I can't blame you for wanting to learn to rebuild it. It may be the only way to have one someday.
Step by step.....nothing I've seen as there are different styles.
I've never seen a 102 atty. 1st thing I would do is measure a good atty to see what the ohm value is. The ones I own are normally 3.0-3.4 ohms. Next would be to decide the correct gage nichrome wire you'll need. It is measured in ohms per foot. For my 510, 801,901, DSE601 Pipe and Mini Pipe I use 36ga which is 27ohms per foot or 2.25ohms per inch. 1.5" = 3.375ohms. I get my wire at Nichrome Wire .
You'll need to disassemble your old one so you can see what dia. coil you want to wrap.
The wick material and soldering is pretty much covered in the thread. Hopefully someone will answer that has taken a 102 apart and can help with that.

Vaporer