Attn: atomizer rebuilders

[500KV]

Already got a reply from these people.
No joy though. Our coils are operating at ~5 watts and these are not hot enough.

To: sales@sunelectricheater.com
Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 8:50 AM
Subject: Information


- Could you please furnish us with specifics on your 1/2" and 4MM heaters operated at 6 volts DC.

All our heaters will function at 6 volts, albeit with reduced wattage out put.

-DC resistance and/or wattage.

Our 1/8" by 1/2" long 15 watt heater will put out approximately 1 watt at 6 volts. In general, our 24 volt heaters will generate 1/16 of their rated wattage when operating on 6 volts.

- properties if submersed in a nonflamable liquid.

Our heaters cannot be directly immersed in a liquid, because they are not liquid tight. They have to be disposed in a well that is immersed in the fliud.

-Price per unit.

The range is between $28.00 and $33.00 list. Volume discounts earn discounts up to 50%

Generally we approach a heating application by establishing the desired operating temperature and the required wattage (based on the mass to be heated).
From that information the parameters of the required heater and control unit.

We hope this helps.

 

[boxhead]

yeah i was going to send a qq to suneletric, but i dont have the knowledge to ask the right qq, like i did not know our coils run at 5 watts. dont they do spec builds? i would go in on a deal for that. looking...

 

[500KV]

yeah i was going to send a qq to suneletric, but i dont have the knowledge to ask the right qq, like i did not know our coils run at 5 watts. dont they do spec builds? i would go in on a deal for that. looking...

Yeah boxhead,
From what I gathered, they will build any type of heating element you need.
It appears that they are using a loop configuration as opposed to a coil.
Anyway, cost of getting these things might be prohibitive, just don't know.
The ~5 watts is for people using ~4 volts as a source. Those using 5 or 6 volts are actually running at ~10 or 12 watts. Kinda smokin' in that small enclosure.

 

[jigtg]

So to sum up:
-kr808d-1 atomizer
-nichrome wire around 33AG
-needle to make the winding
-silica fibers(real ones that can withstand open flame without combustion)
-spot welded contacts to nichrome wire(470uF capacitor charged to around 50 volts)

 

[crazyhorse]

So to sum up:
-kr808d-1 atomizer
-nichrome wire around 33AG
-needle to make the winding
-silica fibers(real ones that can withstand open flame without combustion)
-spot welded contacts to nichrome wire(470uF capacitor charged to around 50 volts)

Are you asking or are you telling?

33 AWG would be great but can you really stuff ~8 cm into an atomizer?

 

[boxhead]

i went to ucla for a double mach/elec deg and bailed on the elec when a mech engneer told me it was the same formulas and showed me...twenty years later i forget my name when i have to think about two things at once...i built a power booster and got 5.63vdc out of it...cant figure out why i used a 1 aa(lr4) i know there is not enough electron flow to power a dse 801 but something that kina said made me try and yeah i got the volts but not the current ( i then dropped my vdm and it broke . ) i wanted to see what the amps where in real life, because i dont remb the math and now have to wait to make a trip to harborfreighttools...
now if i could get a hold of the nic/hyd batterys we used to stress test to failure at hugh aircraft, about the size of a marlb box very light and SHINY.( $20000 each, to failure means we broke em...real bad)...

 

[500KV]

i went to ucla for a double mach/elec deg and bailed on the elec when a mech engneer told me it was the same formulas and showed me...twenty years later i forget my name when i have to think about two things at once...i built a power booster and got 5.63vdc out of it...cant figure out why i used a 1 aa(lr4) i know there is not enough electron flow to power a dse 801 but something that kina said made me try and yeah i got the volts but not the current ( i then dropped my vdm and it broke . ) i wanted to see what the amps where in real life, because i dont remb the math and now have to wait to make a trip to harborfreighttools...
now if i could get a hold of the nic/hyd batterys we used to stress test to failure at hugh aircraft, about the size of a marlb box very light and SHINY.( $20000 each, to failure means we broke em...real bad)...

Boxhead,
The voltage you apply divided by the resistance (in ohms) of your atomizer will give you the current it will draw; but you will also have to have the battery or source capacity to deliver that current. Think a 12 volt motorcycle battery and a 12 volt truck battery. Same voltage but different capacities. You can't start the truck with the motorcycle battery but the truck battery will crank several motorcycles at the same time.

 

[boxhead]

i=v/r. too short hey just thought of the r`s we used on voltage dividers for strain gage power supply made stable with 2"dia x 6"h capcitor (i dont rem the value of the caps)...were a open wire coil very fine...now attys are resistors, and i just lost my train of thought damn it...i got to remebering scaring the intern at the test lab with these big capcitors and laughing at my self from the memorys...i think i am getting senile...

 

[jigtg]

Are you asking or are you telling?

33 AWG would be great but can you really stuff ~8 cm into an atomizer?

Telling mostly but you are right that is too thick. Had that in e-cigar with lower voltage.

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...837-disposable-autopsy-smoke51-epuffer-3.html has some pics of kr808d-1 atomizer. As can be seen it is much simpler design with great potential. Just need to wrap the coil with something heat resistant and it will probably work better than the original.

 

[kinabaloo]

Usual length is about 4 cm. So 5 or 6 should b possible. A bit thicker: more power (more battery drain) and slower heat up (might not be noticeable). Could be worthwhile; especially is juice flow is increased to matched. Stronger coil and bigger fog.

 

[crazyhorse]

I found a small wire calculator program that gives a lot of info on various wires including NiCr. It will give you current/temp, resistance, breaking strength, etc. It's a 516 kb download and it's clean.

http://www.wiretron.com/wtsetup.exe

 

[kinabaloo]

I found a small wire calculator program that gives a lot of info on various wires including NiCr. It will give you current/temp, resistance, breaking strength, etc. It's a 516 kb download and it's clean.

http://www.wiretron.com/wtsetup.exe

Very useful

 

[crazyhorse]

Original quote moved from another forum:

crazyhorse,

I just got the nichrome yesterday. I've designed/built micro rc planes/helis with circuit mods for yrs. They use lithium polymer batteries. Same max charge and min cutoff specs. I even have a simple charger that can be built low cost I plan to post soon.
I have the connector ends, even in gold plated. They are cheap and easy to obtain. Crimping the gold to the coil may eliminate any soldering.
I cant post a pic or links yet and I dont have any dud attys to actually mount it. The one I tried to take apart (my 1st) I busted the juice cup beyond repair.

I posted the place I got my wire from in the other thread. 10ft for $2 free S&H. I bought the 36ga (.005 dia) 20ohms/ft. 1 1/2" would be 3.37ohms.
I have a Blu and Janty Mini Fogger. The Blu atty is 3.4ohms and the Janty is 2.5 -2.7ohms (2 diff coils) so a 1mm core wrap ....length is good and resistance is in the right range.

I'm all for learning to make our own parts. Cheap, simple so most can do it.
Then we can maintain and design our own custom units.

Hi Vaporer,

I've never worked with anything like this before. My favorite tools are a Kubota tractor and a 24" chainsaw, not micro-tools. No way to know if this idea will work without giving it a try. I'll be using DSE 801 atomizers.

My idea involves removing the bridge and replacing the power leads with copper capillary tubing soldered to the battery connector. This cap tube would serve as conductors and sockets to plug a coil into. It would also require a bridge/cartridge modification which I mentioned much earlier in this thread. I was hoping for critique and discussion of this modification but all I received was a blank stare.

If the bridge was removed and replaced with a large bore, heat resistant, insulating grommet of thin section, we could insert a wafer or a wad of metal foam into the end of the cartridge. The cartridge wall and the grommet would insulate the metal foam from the cig body and slightly isolate it from direct contact with the coil. The metal foam would keep the cartridge filler away from the coil while putting the juice supply in immediate proximity to the coil itself. Getting rid of the bridge would open up easy access for a plug-and-play coil replacement.

It would also get rid of that pesky problem of the peaked bridge pushing the filler up into the cartridge and negate ongoing paper clip therapy needed to fluff the stuffing back down to the level of the bottom of the cartridge. A vented cartridge would be quickly and easily refilled by syringe.

I may have ordered nichrome from the same place as you. I bought 10' each of 32, 36 and 40 gauge for $6.50 delivered. Due to a mailing malfunction, my wire wasn't sent last week but I should get it sometime this week.

My first try will use 0.092" OD copper cap tube as conductor and socket. It's too big but I can at least test the concept. I want to play with what I have before buying 0.072" or hunting down the smaller stuff.

I also need to find a hi-temp conductive paste for the wire/socket connection. Something like the Ox-Gard I have for use on big aluminum conductor connections may be lovely but I need something that doesn't melt down and flow under high heat. Not sure of the ultimate melting point of Ox-Gard but I know it's much lower than 2000° F.

 

[crazyhorse]

I also need to find a hi-temp conductive paste for the wire/socket connection. Something like the Ox-Gard I have for use on big aluminum conductor connections may be lovely but I need something that doesn't melt down and flow under high heat. Not sure of the ultimate melting point of Ox-Gard but I know it's much lower than 2000° F.

Maybe I've something for this part. Jet-Lube SS-30 High Temp Anti-Seize. This stuff will secure a plug-in coil, provide high conductivity between the coil legs and the conductor while protecting the nichrome within the socket. It should also allow for simple extraction of legs once the coil burns out and needs to be replaced. MSDS reveals no exceptional hazards.

--------------------------

SS-30 has a high content (~30%) of micro-size, pure copper flakes homogenized into a non-melting, non-volatile lead-free grease. Service rating to 982° (1800° F) It may be applied directly to hot surfaces without running off, dripping or thinning out.

Specially formulated for stainless steel (nichrome is a stainless steel) fittings protecting them from pitting and breakage. Recommended for all types of electrical connections where excellent conductivity is required. Ideal for use on stainless steel for joining dissimilar metals, including copper

Highly adhesive to both wet and dry surfaces. Specific gravity 1.17

 

[crazyhorse]

Plug-in atomizer coil. First test of concept.

The coil is 3½" of 32 AWG NiCr60 hastily wrapped around an amount of Grapho-glas. A 0.9 mm needle was used as a form. The coil has tails of ½" length tucked into 0.090" OD capillary tubes with a small amount of Ox-Gard conductive paste coating the wire ends.

The cap tubes are soldered onto an 801 atomizer and installed to a single 14500 NicoStick.

I dripped PG onto the wick and coil before pushing the button. The first picture was taken shortly after pushing the power button. The second picture is taken a few seconds later. It made some vapor

After the initial vapor test, I held the coil at red heat until the 4.1v 900 mAh battery depleted to 3.35v with no visible effect on the coil.

 

[Sun Vaporer]

Crazyhorse---looks like you are making some great progess there. Keep up the good work as you look like you are on the right track and thanks for all your efforts----Sun

 

[kinabaloo]

Crazyhorse - yes, as I found, NiCr coils can maintain a hight heat for a long time without failing; which obviously raises some questions!

What resistance did this coil have ?
Twice the length because twice the cross-sectional area I guess so about the same resistance (3-4 ohms)?

 

[crazyhorse]

Good question Kinabaloo. If it is to be measured from end to end, it would be 3.07. Since approximately 1" of it is legs plugged into sockets, how do you calculate that?

 

[kinabaloo]

Good question Kinabaloo. If it is to be measured from end to end, it would be 3.07. Since approximately 1" of it is legs plugged into sockets, how do you calculate that?

I see, the whole leg is inside a socket?

Hopefully there is little difference then in the resistance of just the coil part and that at the connector itself.

What does it measure at the connector?
Then compare that with the expected resistance for 3.5inches - 1. (About 2.25 ohms)

Low resistances need a firm touch by the multimeter leads to get an accurate reading.

 

[crazyhorse]

The two legs of the coil are each ±½" and each is plugged into a cap tube. Interestingly, the coil itself (when uninstalled) measures 4.2 when firmly alligator clipped. The entire "atomizer" assembly, when tested at the battery connector, measures 4.5.

I'll have to break out some backup multimeters tomorrow to verify those figures. That's a long ways off from the calculated resistance for a 3½" length of 32 gauge.