Awesome Report from the University of East London

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Kropotkin

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Oh, I'm sorry Coldrake. I had no idea this had been around so long.

But you know, it's pretty sad to think that we're still battling bans all over the place, when there actually is an extensive collection of evidence on our side already.

At one point Dr D says, "We know more about what's in ecigarette vapor than we do about what's in tobacco cigarette smoke."

:glare:

It makes you think, that's for sure.
 

Free6413

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The information within this video is (outside of the poll data) something that we already know. The problem is that this is one scientist's study. Unless the information is shared on a larger scale, this could very well be pushed into the shadows and refuted as "quack" science. What is needed is for more widespread research to support the findings within the video. I know there are others out there performing the studies to support these findings but when BT has relatively unlimited funding and the scientists performing the studies such as this have to scrape for funding, which do you think will prevail? Unless a corporation gets behind the research, it will remain viewed as stacked data. Hats off to Totally Wicked for being a pioneer and using their wealth for the common good!
 

Kropotkin

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AlexanderJ said:
. . . This is the kind of information we need to get out to the masses!
No kidding.

I was recently involved in an online argument about the ongoing e-cig bans, and I was absolutely horrified by the crazy things ordinary people believe about vaping. For example:

~ E-cig batteries frequently explode in people's faces, disfiguring them for life.
~ The people using e-cigs are primarily drug addicts.
~ There are many scientific studies proving that second-hand vapor is worse than tobacco smoke.
~ E-liquid manufactures try to "hook" children by adding sweet flavors and colorful labels . . . why else would they do it?
~ Doctors now believe that e-cigs are the new "gateway drug," eventually leading to narcotic addiction and death.

And I wasn't debating with idiots, either. These were well-educated, perfectly literate participants in a horse training discussion forum; the sort of people who generally respect science and shun quackery.

But the most unnerving part of the whole horrible debacle was the fact that no amount of evidence could shake these people, even when backed up by multiple studies and detailed reports. They were very adamant, and even angry about the whole thing. And the more research the pro-ecig faction posted, the angrier the antis became! It was as if they wanted e-cigarettes to be proven deadly for some reason, and absolutely nothing could make them reconsider.

So anyway, yeah: I'd love to see studies like Dr D's more widely circulated, but I have to agree that, for some, it's not really about reason. We need MORE than science to convince such people - but I honestly don't what that "more" might be.
 
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twgbonehead

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Kropotkin,

One thing to consider is that e-cigs meet with a lot of resistance from some smokers. When you know you shouldn't smoke, and some new "quit smoking" product comes around, it creates stress. Particularly among those who have struggled before with the patch, gum, chantix, zyban, etc. The bad experiences of trying hard to quit in the past, and being unsuccessful after all that effort builds up a psychological barrier against trying "the next new thing to help you quit".

If I wasn't such a techno-nerd, I probably would have been exactly the same way. But for me, the fascination with the technology overcame my reluctance.
 

Kropotkin

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I saw this one some time ago too. I thought I'd add something written by an angry Dr Dawkins when she felt the need to write to the commissioners and members of the European government. It's worth a look, she was pretty angry:

Guest blog: Lynne Dawkins puts the Commission straight « The counterfactual

:) Excellent.

Twgbonehead said:
Kropotkin,

One thing to consider is that e-cigs meet with a lot of resistance from some smokers. When you know you shouldn't smoke, and some new "quit smoking" product comes around, it creates stress. Particularly among those who have struggled before with the patch, gum, chantix, zyban, etc. The bad experiences of trying hard to quit in the past, and being unsuccessful after all that effort builds up a psychological barrier against trying "the next new thing to help you quit".
Y'know, I can actually see why smokers might feel that way. It would be perfectly understandable, really, and for just the reasons you say.

Almost all of the people with whom I was arguing, though, were either lifetime nonsmokers or had quit many years ago; they made a BIG deal of pointing this out. So it was very puzzling: why should people with no dog in the fight be so strangely emotional about the whole thing?

On the other hand, the one smoker in the group actually sent me a PM asking about e-cigs, so I sent her some links - including one to CASAA and one to ECF. I have no idea whether she ever pursued the matter, but who knows? Maybe she's happily vaping away as we speak.
 

AgentAnia

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....But the most unnerving part of the whole horrible debacle was the fact that no amount of evidence could shake these people, even when backed up by multiple studies and detailed reports. They were very adamant, and even angry about the whole thing. And the more research the pro-ecig faction posted, the angrier the antis became! It was as if they wanted e-cigarettes to be proven deadly for some reason, and absolutely nothing could make them reconsider.

You've just given a perfect description of those who've been brainwashed by ANTZ propaganda.
 
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