B attery > Questions

[sky4it]

Yes I have read a lot of the Baditude battery thread.

I have many many lavatubes, and just recently ordered my first mechanical mods. I use currently the 2900 panasonic battery that has a 10A discharge rate.

I am not planning on subohming with the news mods on the way. I like about 1.3 ohm to 1.7 ohm on my builds What I want to know is for mods, will i do better with another different battery with a higher discharge rate? Or will the panasonic 2900, <<< i really do like them be just as good as a performer? On the mods I mean. I have a line on the Sony 30 amp discharge rate and can get that if i need.

Also Baditude if your around, one thing I dont get, is the panasonic is a 2900, why then does it not last any longer than say a 2000 mah battery?

anyway appreciate any reply thanks if you do i will be reading,

me

 

[Baditude]

Those Panny's will be just fine for any coil build above 1.0 ohm.

Responding to why the 2900mah Panny's don't last longer than a 2000mah battery...

I'm assuming that the Panasonic batteries have a higher internal resistance than the 2000mAh batteries you have. I'm going to borrow some information from the tech engineers from Provape here to help me explain:

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"... BUT just as important, is the safer lithium ion chemistry and very low internal resistance of the AW cells. Other lithium-ion chemistry and higher internal resistance cells will not perform to the level of the AW cells and therefore reduce the overall experience when used. The cost of these other cells when comparing their performance and safety are just not worth it.

There are cells that claim to have the same or better capacity (mah) as the AW cell BUT their internal resistance is inferior. If the cell has a higher internal resistance it will drop more voltage when current is taken out and as a result the ProVari will indicate it is at end of charge when it could have a significant amount of capacity remaining.

What good is this capacity (mah) if it cannot be utilized by the ProVari? "

-- http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/provape/524874-question-tech-engineers-provape.html

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"Internal Resistance – The resistance within the battery, generally different for charging and discharging, also dependent on the battery state of charge. As internal resistance increases, the battery efficiency decreases and thermal stability is reduced as more of the charging energy is converted into heat."

The internal resistance of a battery is the least understood of all of the battery specifications for me. Low drain ICR batteries have a very high internal resistance. High drain IMR cells have a very low internal resistance. Panasonic cells are a hybrid technology of both ICR and IMR chemistry. Get where I'm going with this?

I have noted on those battery graphs that the battery tech enthusiasts use, that much of the battery capacity measured by these higher mah batteries is below the useable voltage that we normally use in our mods. Perhaps those extra mahs are useful for the enthusiasts who use low drain applications (flashlights), but perhaps for our purposes (high drain mods) not all of those mAh's are available for our application.

 

[edyle]

Yes I have read a lot of the Baditude battery thread.

I have many many lavatubes, and just recently ordered my first mechanical mods. I use currently the 2900 panasonic battery that has a 10A discharge rate.

I am not planning on subohming with the news mods on the way. I like about 1.3 ohm to 1.7 ohm on my builds What I want to know is for mods, will i do better with another different battery with a higher discharge rate? Or will the panasonic 2900, <<< i really do like them be just as good as a performer? On the mods I mean. I have a line on the Sony 30 amp discharge rate and can get that if i need.

Also Baditude if your around, one thing I dont get, is the panasonic is a 2900, why then does it not last any longer than say a 2000 mah battery?

anyway appreciate any reply thanks if you do i will be reading,

me

If you're not going to attempt high wattage vaping (aka subohming on a mech) then might as well get a kick for the mech, or stick to the lavatube.

The mah rating is the total energy stored in the battery, but since we stop using the battery before complete discharge, we don't actually get the usage out of it between charges. In order to get a 'usable' energy stored in the battery, the manufacturers would have to agree on what lower end voltage they will use to define it: either 2.5? volts or somewhere between 2.5 and 3.5 volts; maybe 3.3 volts.

 

[Ryedan]

I have noted on those battery graphs that the battery tech enthusiasts use, that much of the battery capacity measured by these higher mah batteries is below the useable voltage that we normally use in our mods. Perhaps those extra mahs are useful for the enthusiasts who use low drain applications (flashlights), but perhaps for our purposes (high drain mods) not all of those mAh's are available for our application.

IMO it's not about how low in voltage you can go, but a comparison of how much capacity you get to a certain voltage (or state of charge). So if I'm looking for a battery for mechanical mod use and because I know I like to switch batteries at say 3.7V (because lower than that the vape becomes sub-par), I look at the battery specs at my projected amp draw and down to my minimum voltage. My typical mechanical mod resistance is around 0.7 ohms, so about 5A.

VTC5 and CGR CH at 2A.

And the same two at 5A.

At 2A and 3.7V the Panasonic has about 570 seconds of run time. The Sony about 825 seconds. The Sony has 154% the duration of the Pany.

At 5A and 3.7V the Panasonic has about 64 seconds of run time. The Sony about 196 seconds. The Sony has 300% the duration of the Pany.

If you change the minimum voltage desired or the draw pulled from the battery you get different results. This also causes differences when you compare regulated vs. unregulated mods. With regulated mods you have voltage regulation and duty cycle to consider and the effective amp draw that puts on the batteries in a pulsed system. I have no idea yet how to account for that (but I'm working on it )

 

[sky4it]

hey thanks everyone appreciated.

Yeah I got there Baditude from your stuff but wasn't certain.

You might find it interesting Baditude, that I do seem to get longer battery life (before a recharge) off my Kayfun Lite Plus, over the full Russian 3.1. I am guessing here, but since the full Russian has a much bigger deck, and the deck does heat up- I mean the entire deck, - that it is probably pulling more batt juice,,, so that probably explains the difference.

But thanks for the response, its been quite a while since I was in electronics in high school, but it does bring back memories. Once again Baditude, you out do yourself. Terrific help as always.

 

[beckdg]

IMO it's not about how low in voltage you can go, but a comparison of how much capacity you get to a certain voltage (or state of charge). So if I'm looking for a battery for mechanical mod use and because I know I like to switch batteries at say 3.7V (because lower than that the vape becomes sub-par), I look at the battery specs at my projected amp draw and down to my minimum voltage. My typical mechanical mod resistance is around 0.7 ohms, so about 5A.

VTC5 and CGR CH at 2A.

And the same two at 5A.

At 2A and 3.7V the Panasonic has about 570 seconds of run time. The Sony about 825 seconds. The Sony has 154% the duration of the Pany.

At 5A and 3.7V the Panasonic has about 64 seconds of run time. The Sony about 196 seconds. The Sony has 300% the duration of the Pany.

If you change the minimum voltage desired or the draw pulled from the battery you get different results. This also causes differences when you compare regulated vs. unregulated mods. With regulated mods you have voltage regulation and duty cycle to consider and the effective amp draw that puts on the batteries in a pulsed system. I have no idea yet how to account for that (but I'm working on it )

this post should be blogged or bookmarked for later reference. i'd love to explain such intricacies often, but usually lack the will to go into the details. also, it's worth mentioning that there looks to be a new sheriff in town. samsung has an answer to the vtc5 in the 25r and HKJ's test results graph to show it holds it's voltage better throughout a discharge curve. meaning (obviously to those who know) a more consistent vape after initial voltage drop. at about the same capacity and no threat of serious heat when discharged at 66% of it's constant rating (such as the vtc5 has issues with), it seems to me rather obvious, the 25R should be flying off the shelves in lieu of the sony (and AW) counter parts.