Backwoods Brew :(

[lasttango]

This is my experience and honest opinion. No ulterior motives and nothing dishonest. I would appreciate if someone wrote a critical review of a vendor I like because it would hopefully ensure that they aren't getting lazy and lowering their standards. Is this not a "reviews" page? Do you not want their to be honest reflections of the products you are interested in?

But your review was more like whining than it was a review...

I apologize if that sounds rude, but that's how I took it.

I'm a bit pragmatic... so here it goes...

No, people really don't appreciate negative reviews. Some do. Some are thankful and they usually chime in... but for the most part... I don't think that people generally appreciate negative reviews... especially when you pioneer a negative opinion as you did with your BWB experience. The vast majority of people that read them and comment are fan boys and girls... (I'm one) that rush in to outweigh your negativity with comments about how awesome the vendor really is...

I don't write them... because I am content with simply not buying from them again. Or I post my dissatisfaction as a comment rather than starting a thread about it...

My theory is that you are getting criticized not because you posted a negative review... but more because you depicted someone that we know better as a bit of a jerk etc... .

 

[guitardedmark]

You know whats funny? I've received quite a few PMs of people thanking me for this thread. That feels incredibly good. Thanks to all who are PMing me. I completely understand why your not posting publicly

 

[Mr.Self_Destruct]

You know whats funny? I've received quite a few PMs of people thanking me for this thread. That feels incredibly good. Thanks to all who are PMing me. I completely understand why your not posting publicly

Did they order from Don and have the same experience as you?

 

[AlmightyGod]

I bought some of his Blueberry, and it was awful when I first got it.
Two weeks later...it tastes like fresh blueberries.
I'm sorry he let you down...such is life.
Life is like a box of chocolates...

 

[Papa Lazarou]

I thought this section was for reviews of liquid, as in whether it tastes good or not? Not the suppliers customer service etc.

 

[guitardedmark]

But your review was more like whining than it was a review...

I apologize if that sounds rude, but that's how I took it.

I'm a bit pragmatic... so here it goes...

No, people really don't appreciate negative reviews. Some do. Some are thankful and they usually chime in... but for the most part... I don't think that people generally appreciate negative reviews... especially when you pioneer a negative opinion as you did with your BWB experience. The vast majority of people that read them and comment are fan boys and girls... (I'm one) that rush in to outweigh your negativity with comments about how awesome the vendor really is...

I don't write them... because I am content with simply not buying from them again. Or I post my dissatisfaction as a comment rather than starting a thread about it...

My theory is that you are getting criticized not because you posted a negative review... but more because you depicted someone that we know better as a bit of a jerk etc... .

I could see how that came off as whining. No disagreement there. By flamers, I'm not referring to the people defending Don, I'm referring to the people attacking me. I do agree with your perspective though. I did depict him negatively. That was my perspective. The main reason I wrote this review is because there were so many people raving about Don and I never heard any negative experiences that "outweighed" the good.

 

[guitardedmark]

Did they order from Don and have the same experience as you?

Yup! Here's one of them:
"I just wanted to thank you for posting your honest review! The flamers are terrible! Those fan boys and girls seem to trick one into buying a product. I too fell for this. I recently bought BWB during the thanksgiving special. Applewood and tobacco menthol and they are the weakest flavors I have ever tried. I posted in another thread and Don popped into that one defending his precious product. I think most of these vendors are making stuff in the bathroom...Who knows! I would never order again from this vendor. "

 

[guitardedmark]

I thought this section was for reviews of liquid, as in whether it tastes good or not? Not the suppliers customer service etc.

My apologies, I didn't know that!

 

[RyMel]

2 cents from me and not a penny more

first, I own a business. it is a service business. we provide a service to the public. if they have a problem with our service, i would PREFER they come to me directly, and let me attempt to solve the issue. i have had customers run to the net and b**ch about my services, without ever even telling me they were dissatisfied. Then there i go having to clean up their rants, when a simple phone call to me could have avoided a lot. i believe in fair public reviews, but not to the point that you are just trying to smear a business' name, which they have tried so hard to build for themselves. rule of thumb is if you like something you will tell a friend, if you don't, you will tell 10, friends or strangers. nobody can please everybody all the time. just because you have a business license does not make you a perfect human. i say let people experience things for theirselves, to each their own, live and learn. and when running a business, never, ever, get too big headed or too big for your britches. it is the customers that pay the bills after all, no matter how annoying they may be on a Monday morning.

2nd, on another note,
I too had an issue with juice i received from a vendor that was downright horrible.
physically ill horrible.
i posted a small bit about it, but just as an opinion, and in the same post, pointed out that it may just be me, as my new-to-ecigs best friend loved the juice and willingly took it right off my hands as i sat attempting to finish gagging through taste testing it.
without any prompting on my part, this vendor emailed me, to let me know they were sending me 9 bottles of juice flavors that i had ordered, in diff strengths etc, to help rule out what it was about the juice that did not set well with my system.
completely out of the blue, and most definately unexpected! it was a $10 order of tiny samples that i had ordered and did not feel bad at all about passing them on to a new vaper. no loss on my part really. but this vendor went out of their way, on their own dime, to help solve what may or may not even be a problem with their liquid.
it may turn out that i still find the 9 new bottles completely unusable.
and if that is still the case, no harm, no foul. i will always appreciate the vendor going above and beyond, and caring that their product reaches a customer in good taste, and satisfies their needs...

to keep this thread related, i have not yet ordered from BWB, but will at some point i am sure, as i am sure i will at some point order from every vendor out there. this game is too much fun to play....eliquid roulette

 

[guitardedmark]

2 cents from me and not a penny more

first, I own a business. it is a service business. we provide a service to the public. if they have a problem with our service, i would PREFER they come to me directly, and let me attempt to solve the issue. i have had customers run to the net and b**ch about my services, without ever even telling me they were dissatisfied. Then there i go having to clean up their rants, when a simple phone call to me could have avoided a lot. i believe in fair public reviews, but not to the point that you are just trying to smear a business' name, which they have tried so hard to build for themselves. rule of thumb is if you like something you will tell a friend, if you don't, you will tell 10, friends or strangers. nobody can please everybody all the time. just because you have a business license does not make you a perfect human. i say let people experience things for theirselves, to each their own, live and learn. and when running a business, never, ever, get too big headed or too big for your britches. it is the customers that pay the bills after all, no matter how annoying they may be on a Monday morning.

2nd, on another note,
I too had an issue with juice i received from a vendor that was downright horrible.
physically ill horrible.
i posted a small bit about it, but just as an opinion, and in the same post, pointed out that it may just be me, as my new-to-ecigs best friend loved the juice and willingly took it right off my hands as i sat attempting to finish gagging through taste testing it.
without any prompting on my part, this vendor emailed me, to let me know they were sending me 9 bottles of juice flavors that i had ordered, in diff strengths etc, to help rule out what it was about the juice that did not set well with my system.
completely out of the blue, and most definately unexpected! it was a $10 order of tiny samples that i had ordered and did not feel bad at all about passing them on to a new vaper. no loss on my part really. but this vendor went out of their way, on their own dime, to help solve what may or may not even be a problem with their liquid.
it may turn out that i still find the 9 new bottles completely unusable.
and if that is still the case, no harm, no foul. i will always appreciate the vendor going above and beyond, and caring that their product reaches a customer in good taste, and satisfies their needs...

to keep this thread related, i have not yet ordered from BWB, but will at some point i am sure, as i am sure i will at some point order from every vendor out there. this game is too much fun to play....eliquid roulette

Thanks for the post! I agree with everything you said and you obviously have experience in the customer service field. I did however try to work things out with Don via PM. I'm not sure if you saw the response but he obviously showed no effort whatsoever. IMO there was a lot of things that could have been done there that would have cost him nothing and moreover probably made him some money! Once again, I can't say I would have been as negative if it weren't for all the hype. My expectations, thanks to the fanboys, were through the roof. Pretty hard for any vendor to follow that up... unless, their perfect, which is usually unreasonable.

 

[Papa Lazarou]

My apologies, I didn't know that!

Yeah, I mean everyones taste is different and you didn't like the liquid. That's fine and its disappointing, but it'll happen, and I think most reasonable people would accept that. A review purely about the taste etc. of the liquid shouldn't be contentious as its just a personal opinion. It seems to be the customer service stuff that stirs people up...

Anyway, unless I'm mistaken forum suppliers don't have permissions to post in this forum (so if BWB wanted to respond publically to your comments about their service, they couldn't). This forum is for reviews of suppliers and their service Reviews of Suppliers (they can respond there).

 

[guitardedmark]

Yeah, I mean everyones taste is different and you didn't like the liquid. That's fine and its disappointing, but it'll happen, and I think most reasonable people would accept that. A review purely about the taste etc. of the liquid shouldn't be contentious as its just a personal opinion. It seems to be the customer service stuff that stirs people up...

Anyway, unless I'm mistaken forum suppliers don't have permissions to post in this forum (so if BWB wanted to respond publically to your comments about their service, they couldn't). This forum is for reviews of suppliers and their service Reviews of Suppliers (they can respond there).

Wow, I didn't know that. I was really wondering why Don didn't reply. I feel kind of bad now... I'm sorry! If moderators could close this that would be great. I don't think this is fair to Don. I honestly thought he could respond here. I thought he was sending his henchmen

 

[Mr.Self_Destruct]

Yup! Here's one of them:
"I just wanted to thank you for posting your honest review! The flamers are terrible! Those fan boys and girls seem to trick one into buying a product. I too fell for this. I recently bought BWB during the thanksgiving special. Applewood and tobacco menthol and they are the weakest flavors I have ever tried. I posted in another thread and Don popped into that one defending his precious product. I think most of these vendors are making stuff in the bathroom...Who knows! I would never order again from this vendor. "

ok, so you have read BWB reviews right? I have and have placed a few orders with Don. Every review refers to Dons flavors as being subtle. So that would tell me I'm not going to get punched in the face with flavor. I have also noticed that sometimes myself and many other vapors can't taste the flavors in the juice from time to time. (any vendors juice)

Taste is subjective, but obviously you know this.

I have noticed BWB is consistent. I don't get this kind of consistency from most juice vendors I've tried. Obviously everyone has their own likes and dislikes.

To me it seems you found it weak in flavor compared to what you would like. Apparently it's not for you and that's ok.

But it just seems that you just wanted to not like BWB because he has so many loyal fans. And you just had an axe to grind, coming up with any excuse to bad mouth BWB.

That's how it seems to me. That's what I got from reading your post. You just weren't happy with Don's response and I could understand that. But that has nothing to do with the juice you are "reviewing"

And I'm not seeing any flaming here. You just did a biased "review. IMO

Just reminds me of the saying:

 

[Goldenkobold]

I think some juices just are not for some people, for instance I can't see how someone who craves TH and loves artificial candy flavors would like gourmet vapors organic line...but it includes my all day vape, I have tasted some of the juices some people like and literally thought they were crazy or taste bud deficient for recommending them. But taste is subjective and there is no reason to suspect someone else would be happy with what I like and the best we can do in reviews is give an honest description of the flavors. I have never said that a company that uses 100% VG and no additives was recklessly sweet...as that would be dishonest..all I can say is that company x hits the spot that I like on the sweetness scale.

Basically in reading your posting of the emails you asked for a refund and he said no. You apparently didn't like the tone of the no and called him an ......but it could be that he simply doesn't believe any of his flavors would suit you.
""Sorry but liquids are not returnable cause they are not to your liking. They are a consumable item and I would be surprised if any company ever did this." is not an ....... response "Go f yourself if you don't like my juice" would have been an ....... response. Honestly I have never gone to a vendor asking for something that the website specifically says they don't do

BWB website
If you wish to return our e-Liquid just because you dont care for a flavor, it can not be returned
vapor renu
Due to the fact that everyone has different taste prefrences and it is completely out of our hands that a customer simply dislikes a flavor. No refunds will be given at any time for "taste" issues.
vaperite
Please no returns/refunds on E-Liquids they are a consumable.
vapor kings
There are no refunds on any products for any reason. We feel most customers know what they are buying before they buy it. If you are not sure, please do more research before purchasing.
Items that are NOT warrantied (subject to change):
E-Liquid and e-liquid related accessories

The only company I know of that does take back juice is Johnson Creek, but since all the rest of them clearly state the policy in an impossible to misunderstand way on the websites....why would you then go and ask them to go against that same clearly displayed policy and expect any answer but no?

There is the distinct possibility that if you didn't think juice y was sweet enough and he doesn't believe there are any other significantly artificially sweet juices in his inventory than there is nothing he would recommend for you "Sorry, we don't take juice back" may have been the best he could do.

Thanks,
GK

 

[guitardedmark]

What about suggesting I purchase an extra flavor malty toffee?

 

[guitardedmark]

For the record, I still love you all Goodnight!

 

[Mr.Self_Destruct]

What about suggesting I purchase an extra flavor malty toffee?

That's if Don still would do business with you.

Ask a mod to move this so he could respond.

ty

 

[Godzilla]

I've recently heard people say they tried requesting double flavor from Don and he rejected them. When did you place those orders?

I got my juices 2 weeks ago. Now, I have to admit something. I requested extra flavor in the comments, and also in my comments offered to pay extra if necessary. I ASSUMED he put extra flavoring in. The juices I ordered (honey flue nut, 555, and waffle) all have lots of flavor. nutty is still subtle, and apple wood seems more subtle than a sample I previously tried, but I read multiple times that it needs to be steeped. I guess I am saying I have no reason to believe he denied my request. Nowhere did he indicate a NO on the shipping invoice. I ordered 30 of the waffle and have not broke into it yet. I have fallen out of love with waffle for the moment. my new love is TV black licorice. Holy cow. You want flavor?

 

[Goldenkobold]

What about suggesting I purchase an extra flavor malty toffee?

as anyone who has ever put a flavor in a solution will tell you...adding more flavor doesn't necessarily equal a good product...I don't think you should expect to find flavors to your liking from companies often described as subtle or "naturally sweet but not too sweet" or "true to the name". For instance you can find some companies selling "lemonade" flavors that are so damn sweet that if you were to translate them into a beverage it would cause diabetes...and then you find some that offer a more realistic interpretation that is sweet but not over the top so. Don's peach is as sweet as a peach but NOT sweeter than a peach...unlike some that taste like peach jolly ranchers...that is exactly how I described it in my review...some people LOVE the jolly rancher sweetness but don't expect it from BWB...I don't like it (the jolly rancher type) so therefore I liked his take on peach better than certain other companies...there is no way he could satisfy people who like realistic peach sweetness and the candy people without resorting to artificial sweeteners and just perhaps he would rather concentrate on what he does best than try and shoehorn an option into his juice that would end up with a substandard product.

There's nothing wrong with liking super sweet vapes...but don't expect every company to make that and honestly I know of no reviews that say "WOW BWB makes the best candy version of strawberry ever!" in fact they all pretty much say "This had a strawberry like sweetness without being candy like"

I can think of a few companies that the likely hood of you liking anything from their lines is next to zero with your described preferences...and I know of a few that don't make a single thing that strikes me as wonderful. None of those companies would have been doing you any favors by recommending more juices that you probably would have also thought were not sweet enough.

 

[lasttango]

Don doesn't have an extra flavor option...
It's important to understand where he's coming from with this:

it's not because he's lazy or cheap...
The reason is because he is very .... retentive about "flavor."

Like the poster above said... he doesn't believe that adding extra flavor necessarily intensifies the intended flavor...
So, while he doesn't "do" extra flavor he is sometimes open to a request to "intensify" a flavor... that would mean that you'd probably need to email or call him etc...
Don will want to have a dialogue about such a request.
...and Don wouldn't typically comply with a request unless you tried the liquid etc...

Like his brews or not, he is pretty particular about how each one tastes and one of the things that causes him the most anxiety about being a "bigger" vendor is the possibility of a bad batch... or a mixing mistake etc...

...and to concur with Bert... one of my larger fears when Don expand his business was exactly the issue of more subtle flavoring... in fact, I was prepared for more "I can't taste the flavor" posts... so I assume that we haven't seen too many of these because people have read or been informed that BWB isn't an overloader when it comes to flavor...

some of us, many of us, can't take liquids that have intense and in your face flavor.

He does have some flavors that are more intense... like espresso, RY4 or really well steeped applewood and HFN.

Let your HFN steep for 6 months... wowzers...