Bad experiences at B&M....

[numbskull]

Wanted to tell a quick story and see what kind of bad experiences anyone has had at their local B&M....

So a good friend of mine got into vaping shortly after I did. Because of conflicting schedules, we don't hang much anymore. So when we did a few weeks ago I was surprised to see him sporting a new mech (Nemmi clone) and Igo-l he had just baught from our local B&M. We chatted for a while, and in convo he says to me "Hey my thing isn't burning right, can you fix it for me" lol. I kindly oblige since I love the opportunity to rebuild!

I check out the build that the B&M hooked him up with (dual coil, round wire with silica) and see one side is firing much faster than the other. I decide to not just rebuild it for him but also teach him how to rebuild. I begin to explain resistance, volts, amps etc. I put his Igo-L on my ohm reader and was appalled to see that his build was .30 ohms!!! .30 OHMS!!!

Why is a B&M giving noobs sub-ohm builds?! On a cheap 18650 battery (which they also sold him with no mention of batt safety). Look, don't get me wrong, I sub-ohm all the time (usually not that low, but on occasion I will) but there is a major difference between a B&M building sub-ohms for noobs and me an educated rebuilder and safety advocate. I was furious! I went to this place a few days later to pick up some liquid and struck up a convo with the kid working. He says to me "I don't even check my builds anymore"...... WOW!!! I mean, if thats your style ok I guess. I can build my dual coil .8 ribbon wire with 3 wraps on 3mm ekowool and know it will be around .5 ohm because I've used it plenty of times.....but c'mon!!!! Don't know if that was the same guy who did my friends build or not.

My main issues with this are 2 things.
1. My friend was putting something in his face that was potentially dangerous to him and those in close proximity.
2. The last thing the vaping community needs is a batt failing on people who have no clue whats going on.

TL;DR-

Local B&M is giving inexperienced vapers sub-ohm coils! Not explaining batt safety, or even checking to make sure their batts are safe to use with a particular build!!!

Thoughts? Comments? Similar situations? What do you think?

 

[MorpheusPA]

0.3 ohms is dangerous for anybody if you didn't know that was what you had. At least they should explain the concept and some safety issues.

And not checking builds in a store is simply insane. I'm not an experienced rebuilder, so perhaps my "do once, check twice" is a bit overkill, but at least something being sold should be checked that one time. That's a huge liability issue for the retailer!

 

[numbskull]

0.3 ohms is dangerous for anybody if you didn't know that was what you had. At least they should explain the concept and some safety issues.

And not checking builds in a store is simply insane. I'm not an experienced rebuilder, so perhaps my "do once, check twice" is a bit overkill, but at least something being sold should be checked that one time. That's a huge liability issue for the retailer!

Exactly! I'm an experienced builder and I always double even triple check my builds! To be fair, he said he didn't check HIS builds. Either way, not a good message to convey to customers. At the VERY least, educate the customer on what you are doing!!

If it wasn't for the e-liquid, I would never go back. They are the only place I have found that has a particular brand outside of that brands flagship store in San Diego, about a 2 hour drive south of my location.

 

[meanckz]

0.3 ohms is dangerous for anybody if you didn't know that was what you had. At least they should explain the concept and some safety issues.

And not checking builds in a store is simply insane. I'm not an experienced rebuilder, so perhaps my "do once, check twice" is a bit overkill, but at least something being sold should be checked that one time. That's a huge liability issue for the retailer!

plus one on this

I mean I have no problem with places starting newbs of with something besides Ego and CE4s (my store started me on Vamo with ProTank), but explaination is certainly warranted and I definitely don't think it's a good idea to start up with a mech & RBA/RDA, not even if the person buying is an electrician.

 

[MorpheusPA]

plus one on this

I mean I have no problem with places starting newbs of with something besides Ego and CE4s (my store started me on Vamo with ProTank), but explaination is certainly warranted and I definitely don't think it's a good idea to start up with a mech & RBA/RDA, not even if the person buying is an electrician.

I wouldn't blink if somebody wants to start with a VAMO and Protank. That's fine, and you can get the bases for the tank off the shelf in a nice, safe ohm level. If somebody wants that, more power to you.

Even if somebody wants to start with a mech and sub-ohm, as long as the battery's up to snuff and they're educated on it, I'll keep my mouth shut (I actually do have problems with that, but far be it from me and all that as I think you should have some experience before going that far).

Here they have no idea what they want, get sold a mech and a sub-ohm with a sub-standard battery, and not only have no idea what they have but neither does the store. Now I not only have problems with it, I'm downright furious.

That's an accident waiting to happen, and when it does you know they're going to Blame Vaping. Which is actually kind of accurate in this case since it's from an actual shop that specializes in these things and is supposed to have a friggin' clue.

At least I only stick my rebuilds in my own face, and those measure 2.2 ohm--not exactly the bleeding edge of safety.

 

[Jonathan Tittle]

I'm a bit harsh when it comes to B&M's due to the numerous bad experiences, so here's my 2 cents.

Any B&M that takes on the responsibility of hiring new employees and selling to the general public should have enough common sense to be there and train their employees on what they sell and the services that they provide. If they can't keep up with the industry and keep their employees on track and up to date as well, they deserve and hopefully will go out of business very soon.

IMO, all B&M's should have staff that are trained to use, troubleshoot and build on any mod or system they sell and they should be available all day - if that means hiring more employees, oh well - perhaps you should have thought about it when opening up shop instead of trying to just cash in on a growing niche market.

If they can't bother to do that, they have no business selling that specific item. B&M's aren't Walmart, they are filling a specific niche and probably attract more new vapers on a daily basis than online shops since they all the customer to touch and feel what they're buying before they buy. It's the B&M's responsibility to educate.

 

[numbskull]

I think you should be very experienced before trying things like mechs and sub-ohming. I do my best to educate and share knowledge. I explained to my friend why it was a bad thing they did and what could have happened. Told him I was more than happy to teach him how to build STANDARD resistance coils on his VV/VW, and once he did some research, and bought the right equipment(ohm reader, either Sony or MNKE batts etc) We could start to build lower ohms and using his mech. He didn't like that very much, but agreed because of safety issues and said he wanted to do things the right and safe way. Hell, anyone would be kinda bummed if they just bought a new toy and were told not to use it! lol

 

[WarHawk-AVG]

Exactly! I'm an experienced builder and I always double even triple check my builds! To be fair, he said he didn't check HIS builds. Either way, not a good message to convey to customers. At the VERY least, educate the customer on what you are doing!!

If it wasn't for the e-liquid, I would never go back. They are the only place I have found that has a particular brand outside of that brands flagship store in San Diego, about a 2 hour drive south of my location.

I randomly check my coils anyway (mainly because I kick everything or run on an APV, I don't think I have ever gotten below 1.4Ω, my target is 2.0Ω but that is for the electronics...better to stay "middle of the road" so you don't smoke IC's and whatnot), because the resistance CAN and does change, especially if you are fiddling with the coils or whatnot...

I can't believe someone let that guy walk out the door like that...honestly I would take your buddy up there and have him ID the guy then kindly mention it to the manager before someone comes back with a lawsuit...

It's one thing to be wreckless with your own builds (knowing what you are doing mitigates some of the dangers but it does increase the chance of a catastrophic failure [see how many of these pro-drag racers blow their vehicles to hell pushing the limits]) than being wreckless with someone ELSE'S build...

Not cool and just as a courtesy I would just let the manager know that some of his employees are playing with fire, and the vaping community doesn't need another news report of some new vaper saying "my battery blew up"

-edit- ok I take that back...I got a small 14500 serviceable eGo called the Kamry eCab V2 on a whim just to see how well it does, since it has regulation I set it at 3.3vdc and I purpose built a 1.8Ω coil in my PT2 mini...check it quite often...and it hits great

 

[crxess]

What you need to do is get into a long polite conversation with the owner about how great it is having a B&M locally to support Vapors needs. Casually work your way into Liabilities and reputation.

 

[Tealady12]

What crxess said. The owner may have no idea that this employee is cutting corners like this. A talk with the owner is needed here. I have found that the tobacco shops are stocking vape gear and really do not have the knowledge needed, they are not selling the real heavy duty stuff, but do not even know the difference on PG and VG. scary.

 

[Harlen]

Setting them selfs up to be sued , looks like to me

 

[Traver]

What crxess said. The owner may have no idea that this employee is cutting corners like this. A talk with the owner is needed here. I have found that the tobacco shops are stocking vape gear and really do not have the knowledge needed, they are not selling the real heavy duty stuff, but do not even know the difference on PG and VG. scary.

Half the entrepreneurs in the country are looking into making a quick buck with the e-cig craze. These people don't necessarily know or care about vaping. So this doesn't exactly surprise me.

 

[Don Robertson]

Local B&M is giving inexperienced vapers sub-ohm coils! Not explaining batt safety, or even checking to make sure their batts are safe to use with a particular build!!!

Good questions. Too many will not read them and if they do some will still go about business without any fear about what COULD happen.

Even though my first was a Kanger T3S and an eGo-C USB 650MaH with a 2.5ohm (+/-) coil as I recall - my guys did not discuss 'battery safety' with me at all. While there is little chance of a catastrophe - it's surely not impossible. I have used "rechargeable batteries" for many decades and knew to watch for 'shorts' and so on.

Heck - back in the late 1950's and early 1960's recharging carbon-zinc and mercury batteries was the 'craze'!

Things can happen no matter what device we power. However - the 'shop' mentioned 'zero' about 'battery safety' - and focused on how long it 'could' last, charging time and a quick talk about how to operate the "on-off and power functions". Not a problem for my setup as far as 'ohms' -- but they should have mentioned 'safety'. They then took my money and I was on my way!

I think part of the problem is the 'age' of those who own SOME of the shops. They grew up with rechargeable batteries for a multitude of devices; they take them for granted. One goes 'dead' - replace it and get back to "whatever".

Again - you brought up a good topic. One that is still not given enough consideration by the hotshots when they fire off their 0.5 ohm devices and stick them just below their EYES. It may make for a great cloud and even a great taste - but, I believe it can be and should be achieved in a safer manner.

Senile Old Man Don

 

[Baditude]

I'm a bit harsh when it comes to B&M's due to the numerous bad experiences, so here's my 2 cents.

Any B&M that takes on the responsibility of hiring new employees and selling to the general public should have enough common sense to be there and train their employees on what they sell and the services that they provide. If they can't keep up with the industry and keep their employees on track and up to date as well, they deserve and hopefully will go out of business very soon.

IMO, all B&M's should have staff that are trained to use, troubleshoot and build on any mod or system they sell and they should be available all day - if that means hiring more employees, oh well - perhaps you should have thought about it when opening up shop instead of trying to just cash in on a growing niche market.

If they can't bother to do that, they have no business selling that specific item. B&M's aren't Walmart, they are filling a specific niche and probably attract more new vapers on a daily basis than online shops since they all the customer to touch and feel what they're buying before they buy. It's the B&M's responsibility to educate.

I haven't read the entire thread, but I fully agree with the OP and this one.

I've been critical of the growing trend of some B&M's who are selling mechanical mods with sub-ohm RBA builds to novice vapers. This started in California and the practice has quickly spread across the nation. We began seeing this here on ECF a few months ago when new vapers would come on the forum seeking information about why their new mod was no longer working. Upon questioning, we found that this was their very first e-cig product. The salesman made the coil for them, and sold the battery with the mod and RBA. Gave no instruction or education at all, just told them to go home and "make some clouds."

With one incident, the hot spring collapsed causing the battery to no longer fire (one of the few safety preventions that a mechanical mod has against a battery going into thermal runaway). In another incident, a poster would say the fire button, the mod, or the battery was too hot to touch. (Another sign that something is terribly wrong with the setup.) Often the mods are sold with an inappropriate battery for the resistance of a coil. (Sub-ohm coils require special high drain batteries which have a 30 amp limit; most common high drain batteries only have a 10 amp limit; protected ICR batteries are not high drain and should never be used for sub-ohm coils.)

Another relatively new vaper purchased his first RBA at one of these shops. This one had actually done some of his homework on batteries and knew he didn't have one of the 30 amp batteries, so asked the salesman to make a 1.0 ohm coil. When the customer got home, he checked the resistance of the coil (which the salesman didn't do in the store) with his own multimeter, and was shocked to see that the coil he built was 0.2 ohms.

I don't know the answer or solution to the above practices of B&M's who are doing this to their customers. It borders on negligence and serves no good for the customers or the entire vaping community. I do know that the local B&M that I frequent has a store policy that their employees not make coils less than 1.0 ohm for their customers.

 

[xyanide]

Absolutely outrageous, no idea what they're selling nor who RBA devices are meant for. I'd sent a lengthy mail to the owner if I were you.

 

[jp_cfc09]

them pics scare me big time, im glad I had a read of your blog baditude about battery types and safety. im looking at getting a vamo v5 in a few months hopefully and now know what batterys to get, going for the sony us18650vtc4 30a and nitecore charger. otherwise I would of probably just got the free ones with the vamo off fasttech but just getting the tube now from them lol. its crazy to think a b&m would be this dangerous and careless, I think the manager would like hear about this as its his ... that will be sued.

 

[supertrunker]

I do know that the local B&M that I frequent has a store policy that their employees not make coils less than 1.0 ohm for their customers.

That is an excellent policy and one i'd be happy to see copied.

T

 

[Jonathan Tittle]

I don't recall the name of the B&M, but there's one in California that requires customers to sign a waiver if a sub-ohm coil is built in-store. I would like to see that policy replicated over to all B&M's. Basically, in a nutshell, it states that the customer understands the potential risks and assumes all liability. To me, this covers the B&M in case someone does do something stupid. Hopefully they'll never need it, but it is a good idea, IMO. Most B&M's wouldn't be able to recover from a lawsuit.

It really wouldn't take much time or effort to put together a basic pamphlet for those new to sub-ohm builds. Including this with mech and other purchases that are typically used for sub-ohm building would be rather impressive to me. Any B&M that actually took the time and a little bit of effort to go the extra mile would earn my business.

This just reinforces my stance that all B&M's should be the source for education. This is a customer service industry. Any B&M owner that is oblivious to what their employees are doing doesn't need to be in business or they need to hire managers to assist them and enforce any and all levels of training.

 

[Papa_Lazarou]

them pics scare me big time, im glad I had a read of your blog baditude about battery types and safety. im looking at getting a vamo v5 in a few months hopefully and now know what batterys to get, going for the sony us18650vtc4 30a and nitecore charger. otherwise I would of probably just got the free ones with the vamo off fasttech but just getting the tube now from them lol. its crazy to think a b&m would be this dangerous and careless, I think the manager would like hear about this as its his ... that will be sued.

I think Baditude has saved lives (or at least some unhappy incidents) with his blog and dedication to preaching safety. To Bad

 

[UnclePsyko]

I think Baditude has saved lives (or at least some unhappy incidents) with his blog and dedication to preaching safety. To Bad

To Bad!