Banning of e-cigarettes on College Campus

[EddardinWinter]

So in a recent thread the topic of college campus bans of e-cigs came up. There were mixed reactions to this, some support the bans, some opposed.

Let's try to focus on the issue of the right of a college or university to ban this activity. Please guys, let's not attack each other, let's debate the issue like good people who disagree, but do so agreeably. I know cigarettes are also banned on many campuses, but I would really like to keep this thread on topic and open, so please stay on topic of e-cigarettes as much as possible.


So, to start it off:

What right does a school have to issue a campus ban on e-cigarettes, when it is a legal product being used for it's intended use?

EDIT: PLEASE NOTE! This refers to ONLY campus wide bans. Not bans of classroom activities or dorm activities.

 

[suspectK]

Are you absolutely sure it's from legal substance use? It's the modern method to use more than just nicotine...

 

[Iowa Gal]

I can understand a ban in classrooms and other indoor areas (eating area etc) There are some people very sensitive to smells etc that could be offended. I know there are a couple of juices I use that don't go to work with me as they are noticeable. I do feel banning on the entire campus including outdoor areas goes too far. There are always going to be students that smoke, I would think they would encourage vaping if for nothing else lowering the risk of fire hazard. Those not vaping with legal substances don't follow any rules to start with so they will continue to do what they want anyway.

 

[jhelliwell]

I would say a rule banning vaping inside buidings would be expected, but on campus/outside is a step too far.

 

[crxess]

Simplification of a policing action required to prevent use of unlawful products.
Elimination of an action not required in the advancement of education.
Elimination of a continual battle over rights vs. actual action - smokers/vapers

Personal opinion - None
I'm now 60. When I attended school you could get cracked with a ruler for speaking without permission. Now teachers get attacked.

 

[Susan W.]

I can understand banning anything in the classrooms that interfere with the class. Things like polishing your nails, braiding your hair, texting on a phone and vaping shouldn't be done in a classroom. It's distracting to others in the class.

 

[FlamingoTutu]

There are many people attending colleges and universities today that are not 18-20 years old. Many veterans are also returning to school now too. When you begin college you are expected to act like an adult. Why punish everybody because a few can’t behave? Really, you train up 18-year-olds to go out and kill then tell them they can’t smoke on campus? Rule makers really need to grow up. Smoking/vaping are not illegal activities. No, they shouldn’t do it in buildings but honestly, quit treating adults like they are all nursery school kids. Next they will ban pickles on you burger in the cafeteria just because they can. I'd prefer they ban perfume.

 

[EddardinWinter]

Simplification of a policing action required to prevent use of unlawful products.
Elimination of an action not required in the advancement of education.
Elimination of a continual battle over rights vs. actual action - smokers/vapers

Personal opinion - None
I'm now 60. When I attended school you could get cracked with a ruler for speaking without permission. Now teachers get attacked.

Simplification of a policing action required to prevent use of unlawful products.
This is not a valid reason to ban the activity. The police force is responsible to separate the legal/illegal activities. Alcohol is allowed on many of these campuses, but many students are not of legal drinking age.
Elimination of an action not required in the advancement of education.
So where do we draw that line? By your logic, no cable TV, video games, recreational sports, or booze would be allowed on campus.
Elimination of a continual battle over rights vs. actual action - smokers/vapers
Can a battle be eliminated with a ban that is not based on some legal/ethical/moral (I hate to use that term) authority or rule of law? I don't think so.

 

[EddardinWinter]

Are you absolutely sure it's from legal substance use? It's the modern method to use more than just nicotine...

But we are not talking about that. See my OP, please.

 

[NicoHolic]

What right does a school have to issue a campus ban on e-cigarettes, when it is a legal product being used for it's intended use?

Vaping is not a constitutionally or otherwise legally protected activity (free speech, use of wheelchairs, guide dogs, etc). The school is not legally restricted from banning it and is legally free to do so. It's that simple.

 

[bluecat]

You did not specify whether in the classroom or not. Now take my Chemistry Class, freshman year. Probably 600 students in it. Big ole German professor that got mad when around 20 students left in the first 10 minutes. He got up off his stool the first day.. yelled at everyone and threw his pocket protector into the students and stormed out of the auditorium. I kid you not. Now imagine if 600 students all decided it was okay to take out the PVs and blow clouds. Nothing would get done. Banning it in the classroom serves that purpose. If one can do it why can't 600?

This discussion always reminds me of below.





Mr. Hand: Am I hallucinating here? Just what in the hell do you think you're doing?
Jeff Spicoli: Learning about Cuba, and having some food.
Mr. Hand: Mr.Spicoli, You're on dangerous ground here. You're causing a major disturbance on my time.
Jeff Spicoli: I've been thinking about this, Mr. Hand. If I'm here and you're here, doesn't that make it our time? Certainly, there's nothing wrong with a little feast on our time.
Mr. Hand: [takes away box of pizza from Spicoli] You're absolutrly right, Mr. Spicoli. It is our time. Yours, mine and everyone else's in this room. But it is my class.
[calls up a couple of students]
Mr. Hand: Mr. Spicoli has been kind enough to bring us a snack. Be my guest. Help yourselves. Get a Good one.

 

[EddardinWinter]

Vaping is not a constitutionally or otherwise legally protected activity (free speech, use of wheelchairs, guide dogs, etc). The school is not legally restricted from banning it and is legally free to do so. It's that simple.

Not so simple, in my book, at least. By your logic...

They could therefore ban insulin on campus to hell with those diabetics! It is not constitutionally or otherwise legally protected.
They could therefore ban a specific food, let's say chinese food? It is not constitutionally or otherwise legally protected.
They could therefore ban bottled water on campus? It is not constitutionally or otherwise legally protected.
They could ban bicycles, they could ban paper airplanes, they could ban books they find offensive, they could ban milk, they could ban a brand of shirts, etc.

IF that is the justification, there are no rights to anything in any place other than your home. Where do they derive the legal/ethical/moral authority to ban a legal activity on campus?

 

[EddardinWinter]

You did not specify whether in the classroom or not. Now take my Chemistry Class, freshman year. Probably 600 students in it. Big ole German professor that got mad when around 20 students left in the first 10 minutes. He got up off his stool the first day.. yelled at everyone and threw his pocket protector into the students and stormed out of the auditorium. I kid you not. Now imagine if 600 students all decided it was okay to take out the PVs and blow clouds. Nothing would get done. Banning it in the classroom serves that purpose. If one can do it why can't 600?

This discussion always reminds me of below.





View attachment 264665

Mr. Hand: Am I hallucinating here? Just what in the hell do you think you're doing?
Jeff Spicoli: Learning about Cuba, and having some food.
Mr. Hand: Mr.Spicoli, You're on dangerous ground here. You're causing a major disturbance on my time.
Jeff Spicoli: I've been thinking about this, Mr. Hand. If I'm here and you're here, doesn't that make it our time? Certainly, there's nothing wrong with a little feast on our time.
Mr. Hand: [takes away box of pizza from Spicoli] You're absolutrly right, Mr. Spicoli. It is our time. Yours, mine and everyone else's in this room. But it is my class.
[calls up a couple of students]
Mr. Hand: Mr. Spicoli has been kind enough to bring us a snack. Be my guest. Help yourselves. Get a Good one.

I am not saying the school cannot restrict it's use in classrooms. Many schools/professors do not permit food and drink in classrooms and have other similar restrictions.

I am talking about a campus wide ban of e-cigarettes. That is the premise of the discussion. That is, after all, the name of the thread.

 

[CaliforniaGirl]

Not so simple, in my book, at least. By your logic...

They could therefore ban insulin on campus to hell with those diabetics! It is not constitutionally or otherwise legally protected.
They could therefore ban a specific food, let's say chinese food? It is not constitutionally or otherwise legally protected.
They could therefore ban bottled water on campus? It is not constitutionally or otherwise legally protected.
They could ban bicycles, they could ban paper airplanes, they could ban books they find offensive, they could ban milk, they could ban a brand of shirts, etc.

IF that is the justification, there are no rights to anything in any place other than your home. Where do they derive the legal/ethical/moral authority to ban a legal activity on campus?

However, insulin and Chinese food are not used specifically to create a pleasingly, non-necessary stimulating feeling (altered state, in this case a physically altered state, but in the case of nic addiction, obviously a psychologically altered one too) via action on the central nervous system. That could be the difference here.

Alcohol isn't allowed in classrooms, either. And no, I'm not saying the side effects (altered/pleasant feelings) of alcohol and nicotine are the same thing, but I hardly doubt that has relevance.

Of course, if coffee is allowed in classrooms, then that would be a trickier area as nicotine and caffeine are both stimulants, but I don't know whether coffee is allowed in the average college classroom either. Just putting that in because I don't actually know and obviously it would nullify, or at least alter, my first statement above.

And by the way, I don't think paper airplanes or jugs of milk are generally allowed in the classroom either.

Now as far as not in classrooms, but on campus...I would say vaping should be allowed as much as smoking is allowed, and as much as alcohol is allowed.

 

[EddardinWinter]

However, insulin and Chinese food are not used specifically to create a pleasingly, non-necessary stimulating feeling via action on the central nervous system. That could be the difference here.

Alcohol isn't allowed in classrooms, either. And no, I'm not saying the side effects (pleasant feelings) of alcohol and nicotine are the same thing, but I hardly doubt that has relevance.

Of course, if coffee is allowed in classrooms, then that would be a trickier area as nicotine and caffeine are both stimulants, but I don't know whether coffee is allowed in the average college classroom either. Just putting that in because I don't actually know and obviously it would nullify, or at least alter, my first statement above.

Everyone. Please.

I concede the right of the classroom to be a controlled environment, subject to the rules of the university and/or instructor. Many do not allow food and drink in the class.

I am talking about Campus-Wide bans of e-cigarettes. I have clarified my OP, since it was ambiguous. Sorry for the lack of clarity.

 

[CaliforniaGirl]

I am talking about Campus-Wide bans of e-cigarettes.

Are there many?

Among campuses that ban e-cigs, do those campuses also ban smoking?

I am really not up on this subject and I feel the above are relevant.

I mean obviously if there are campuses allowing smoking but banning vaping, that seems silly.

 

[bluecat]

IF that is the justification, there are no rights to anything in any place other than your home. Where do they derive the legal/ethical/moral authority to ban a legal activity on campus?

Basically mate.. Think that is it.

In your world you have the right to do any of things, in someone else's world they have the right to be free of those things. The two will never meet. Once you throw your rights around in people faces, you are denying someone else their rights.

In your home do as you wish. Soon with our government? You are going to lose those rights as well. Heck what is it Oregon? Want to tax people per mile they drive...

It is easier to ban.

 

[JMarca]

These threads pop up everyday now... just because you vape doesn't mean you have the "right" to vape on private property.
Some schools go as far as telling students they must wear a visual ID card at all times, can they do that?

Absolutely, it's their property. You choose to come on it you must respect their rules, period. Why is this so hard for some people to understand?

 

[EddardinWinter]

Are there many?

Among campuses that ban e-cigs, do those campuses also ban smoking?

I am really not up on this subject and I feel the above are relevant.

I mean obviously if there are campuses allowing smoking but banning vaping, that seems silly.

Here is what I could find and link in three minutes.

Proposed Bans
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/media-general-news/346351-ucla-introduce-campus-wide-smoking-ban-including-electronic-cigarettes.html
OSU proposes campuswide ban on e-cigarettes - News - Latest
Univ. of Iowa discusses electronic cigarette ban - SFGate

Banned
E-cigarette ban blows smoke - The Shorthorn : Opinion
E-Cigarettes Included in College Campus Smoke-Free Ban | Safer Smoke Blog and News

 

[bluecat]

Everyone. Please.

I concede the right of the classroom to be a controlled environment, subject to the rules of the university and/or instructor. Many do not allow food and drink in the class.

I am talking about Campus-Wide bans of e-cigarettes. I have clarified my OP, since it was ambiguous. Sorry for the lack of clarity.

No worries. I believe college campuses are a place of religious, political and any other type of freedom for expressing oneself whether or not I agree with those views.

No, I would never be a fan of a campus wide ban on e cigs or any other type of ban.

Although not a big fan of Iowa.. Their article is refreshing as it is a means to be proactive. Some Council members say to ban it all... 40k hammer.. Other say, hey wait a minute... there is no second hand smoke here which is why we implemented the smoke free ban in the first place. At least they seem to want to be educated. A good thing.