Batteries and power - information and specs

[Kate]

There should be a thread for us to refer to about batteries and power for our devices - specs, maintenance, troubleshooting, charging, hints, tips and anything else related to our little lithium ion buddies, USB cables, etc.

Now I don't know much about this but I know a man who does so I'll start this thread with one of his posts:

USB e cig leads have voltage or current limiters built into them.. with ones like the janty with a battery in line the battery does this..

the ones that dont have the battery inline have the current restricter somewhere else..

the e cig heater coil has a resistance based on it being fed between 3.5 and 4 volts.. a PC USB socket puts out 5 volts.. its maximum rating is 500 ma.. feeding five volts straight from the USB socket to the e cig atomizer will wreck the PC..

its better to use a USB power hub..

charging a lithium cell too quickly will wreck it.. something that takes two hours is good.. something that takes twenty minutes is bad...

lithium ion battery technology is fragile technology it dosnt like being abused.. the cell is abused when its discharged no sense in adding to the abuse with the charge..

the term is "C" one C equals a one hour charge or a one hour discharge..

C is the capacity of the battery.. one C would be to discharge the battery at a one hour rate.. or charge the battery at a one hour rate..

a normal e cig battery gets short bursts of up to six C discharge every time a puff is taken which is why they die so quickly..

a continuous on situation would discharge a normal e cig battery in about eight minutes..

e cig batteries aint happy bunnies and for a very good reason.. they are literally being flogged to a quick death.. even the so called better ones..

just some e cig lithium ion battery facts.. if any manufacturer wished to dispute my facts they are free to do so.. i am 100% sure none will..

trog

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...i-dont-use-batteries-anymore-8.html#post80191

 

[Bastage]

"feeding five volts straight from the USB socket to the e cig atomizer will wreck the PC.."

I've tested USB direct 5v USB modded cables on 20 PC's. No dead ports to date. No dead ports reported from the many people that have done the mod themselves, or the people I've done mods for and given them cables. Atomizer performance is top notch, atomizer life is very good as well. Not going to argue about it, just posting facts and what I've seen.

 

[Sun Vaporer]

You are right Kate. Nice if you could get one up and going. It took me forever to find the right portable USB battery block to plub my USB passthough into because I could not find the right specs. I finally got it from one of the posts (5v--1amp output). Happy as a clam now as the portable power block is small and lasts 2 days of heavy vaping!! So I am a happy camper. Would have been nice to have a quick referance thread to have gone to.

 

[dc2k08]

This article ran in the NY Times last week. some tips to care for them. main points:

• 
  
  [*]No. 1 problem is heat. Too much warmth causes the battery to drain faster. “You don’t want to leave it sitting on the front seat of a car. It’s like the care and feeding of the baby. Don’t leave it in the car with the window rolled up.”​
  
  
  [*]In rare cases, some batteries can overheat on their own. Mr. Wozniak uses the phrase “thermal runaway,” a term that can mean anything from toasting a user’s lap to catching fire. Manufacturers now include special circuits in laptop batteries to watch for this and, if detected, shut down the system.​
  
  
  [*]A second important step is keeping the contacts to the battery clean. An eraser is an ideal accessory for any charging station because it’s one of the simplest ways to remove the thin layer of oxide that can build up on the two metal tabs of the battery. Make sure to clean the contacts on the device as well and then blow away any eraser bits.​
  
  
  [*]Mixed views on charging. some say heat and constant charging can wear a battery down, that it's better to keep the contacts clean and avoid the possible damage from repeated insertion/removal of battery. others say that you should feel free to top them off as often as possible and that you’re extending the cycle life by topping them off and preventing a deep discharge.​
  
  
  Much of the confusion about this point comes from nickel-metal hydride cells, the previous generation of battery technology, which work better if they are often depleted completely before recharging. Newer lithium-ion cells do not suffer from this malady, but users might want to deplete their batteries from time to time anyway. The circuitry that estimates the amount of power left inside a battery can become uncalibrated. Depleting the battery resets this meter.​

 

[Kate]

Thanks for the input folks, I think this will be a handy thread.

Here's a link Scrubadub posted recently that might help us educate ourselves - Welcome to Battery University

 

[dc2k08]

competition time: emm, don't actually have a prize but can anyone come up with a way to figure out a standard test for judging a battery's worth. we always leave comments on here like this battery lasts 6 hours or 1.2 days or 15 cigarettes or 125 drags etc.

problem is, no-one's 6 hours are the same, no-ones 125 drags are the same. we need a proper standard, maybe something to plug a battery into to see it run down and time it. the awquard thing is, the vacuum switch and chip get in the way. anyone ever figure out a way of overriding the chip and turning on one of these bateries and leaving it on? (without dismantling it)

also here's a free vid: ever wonder what's in a 9 volt battery? 9 Volt Battery Hack! You'll Be Surprised... - Video

 

[Bastage]

Battery "life" or storage capacity is measured in milliamp hours. There's no need to drain batteries down to check, they are already rated. There is no way to compare user to user, but comparing standard battery capacity is as easy as reading the specs.

A standard mini cig battery for the 901 is somewhere around 140 mah. I dont' even bother with those anymore.

 

[TribbleTrouble]

My E-Cigar uses a 3.6V 360 mAh battery. I found on Deal Extreme a Lithium battery that is the same size (to fit in the Cigar Tube), same voltage, but it is a 1,800 mAh battery. That means you can go longer before it needs a recharge, right? I'm also wondering if I can use my same charger. I think I can, since it is the same voltage, it will probably just take longer to charge. Let me know if I'm wrong, because I don't want to fry my charger!

 

[Bastage]

My E-Cigar uses a 3.6V 360 mAh battery. I found on Deal Extreme a Lithium battery that is the same size (to fit in the Cigar Tube), same voltage, but it is a 1,800 mAh battery. That means you can go longer before it needs a recharge, right? I'm also wondering if I can use my same charger. I think I can, since it is the same voltage, it will probably just take longer to charge. Let me know if I'm wrong, because I don't want to fry my charger!

depends on your charger. If your battery charger charges at 500ma, to charge an 1800mah battery you would need to charge it for 3 1/2 hours (1800/500). If it charges at 100ma you'd need to put it on for 18 hours (1800/100). Chargers that were made for lower capacity batteries probably charge at much lower rates like 100ma, which isn't really powerful enough to charge an 1800ma battery without it taking forever. Find a battery charger that charges at 500ma to 1000ma (1 Amp) and just apply the same charging method. If you're charging a 1800mah battery with a 1 amp charger you'll only need to put it on charge for about 1.5 hours.

I use a standard trustfire charger for my ecig modded batteries. It charges at 500ma. My battery capacity is 2500Mah. That measn it takes 5 hours to charge fully if the battery has been drained. I normally don't run this one dead just because it lasts forever, so every now and then I'll put it on charge for 3-4 hours then it's good to go.

 

[parapo]

My E-Cigar uses a 3.6V 360 mAh battery. I found on Deal Extreme a Lithium battery that is the same size (to fit in the Cigar Tube), same voltage, but it is a 1,800 mAh battery. That means you can go longer before it needs a recharge, right? I'm also wondering if I can use my same charger. I think I can, since it is the same voltage, it will probably just take longer to charge. Let me know if I'm wrong, because I don't want to fry my charger!

it is physically not possible a battery with the same chemical components (li-ion) be that bigger in capacity,and having the same size.
with different components maybe,but 3.6V are lithium batteries...

suppose i'm wrong (which i'm not) and it is that small,
yes it will last way longer,and you can use the same charger,
but it will take much longer to fully charge them.

 

[Bastage]

I just measured the real charging current on this cheap ... Trustfire "500ma" charger, and it actually charges at 180ma. What a piece of crap. So now knowing the real charging current, in order to completely charge an 18650 2500mah battery it takes 13 hours. The ONLY good thing about that is, now I can charge overnight and not have to worry about leaving it on charge. Stay away from Trustfire chargers. If they are lying on the charger rating, then they are likely doing the same thing with the battery capacity rating.

 

[TribbleTrouble]

This battery at the link below looks like the same size battery as my E-Cigar battery that I am using now. I didn't actually measure my battery to compare it to the dimensions listed on the link.

DealExtreme: $5.77 UltraFire LC 17670 1800mAh 3.6V Rechargeable Battery

 

[parapo]

This battery at the link below looks like the same size battery as my E-Cigar battery that I am using now. I didn't actually measure my battery to compare it to the dimensions listed on the link.

DealExtreme: $5.77 UltraFire LC 17670 1800mAh 3.6V Rechargeable Battery

i read in other posts this is a suitable battery upgrade for the e-cigar.
DealExtreme: $4.32 Ultra Fire 10440 3.6V 500mAh 2Pack


and this a good suitable double charger
DealExtreme: $12.58 Ultra Fire 10440 14500 Ac Charger

if you sure it is the link you posted, give it a try and let us know.
1800mah is way much more than 360 (stock) and this one 500mah....

 

[Frankie]

I would like to hear more about the USB destroying PCs. I own 3 now and when the switch (and/or non-detachable atomizer on one case) dies, i would like to rewire them using a cheap manual swith. Trog says this will destroy my PC, which I cannot afford. Is it really true, or is it just another way of discouraging other then his own battery solutions???

I also bought mains usb converter. Will direct manual destroy the converter, too? Or the mains line in my apartment as well? Electrocuting me in the process?

 

[parapo]

I would like to hear more about the USB destroying PCs. I own 3 now and when the switch (and/or non-detachable atomizer on one case) dies, i would like to rewire them using a cheap manual swith. Trog says this will destroy my PC, which I cannot afford. Is it really true, or is it just another way of discouraging other then his own battery solutions???

I also bought mains usb converter. Will direct manual destroy the converter, too? Or the mains line in my apartment as well? Electrocuting me in the process?

if you press the switch too long,the amp-draw will be way more than a computer can provide...
a passthough has a 3-5 seconds cut off safety.

this could do some damage, since a usb port can only output 500mah.
but if you are sure you won't "over do" it,
i don't see a difference in a normal passthrough and one with a manual switch mod.
i'll mod one this week..

 

[Frankie]

This is disturbing, because it does not have to be me who overdoes it. The switches get stuck sometimes and it´s quite a different game to have a cooked notebook with work instead of just a destroyed atomizer. Well, I probably will only use it with the mains adapter then.

When the damage occurs, does the PC USB port have any safeguards to limit the damage to itself or are we talking about a major disaster?

 

[PeteMcArthur]

This is disturbing, because it does not have to be me who overdoes it. The switches get stuck sometimes and it´s quite a different game to have a cooked notebook with work instead of just a destroyed atomizer. Well, I probably will only use it with the mains adapter then.

When the damage occurs, does the PC USB port have any safeguards to limit the damage to itself or are we talking about a major disaster?

Can't answer that question, they tend to be different implementations. Most people seem to get away with using USB to power their e-cigs, but good old lucky me fried a USB port on my Advent 4211 notebook. Thankfully they replaced it under warranty but I won't try again. Janty put that battery in the USB lead for a good reason, it protects the port.
I know you will have a lot of people who use them without problems, but I won't try again. I suppose 99.9% of PCs will be OK but I got one of the 0.1%!!

 

[Kate]

Here are some measurements that might be useful:

I mocked up a more reliable battery set-up yesterday using a dead battery with the innards removed and the tube reduced to about 20mm in length.

Soldered a couple of wires to the 'screw' and connected it, via a small push button switch, to a Maplin 3 x AA battery holder - works like a charm.

Whilst in the workshop I also did some electrical & mechanical measurements - results as follows:

Output voltage (off load) of Normal, fully charged 'Classic' battery = 3.9 to 4volts.

Resistance of 'Classic' atomiser, around 4 ohms.

Off load Output voltage of 3 x AA (2500 mA/hr) ni-mh battery pack = 4.1 volts.

On load Voltage, (connected to Atomiser and with button pressed) = 3.9 volts.

Current pulled by atomiser = 1 amp.

I reckon this battery pack will last 3 or 4 days before needing to be re-charged - maybe longer.

There's not really enough male thread on the battery/atomiser connectors to get a real accurate measurement - but I'm pretty certain that it 10mm dia x 1mm pitch (in old money that's 0.393" dia x 0.0393 pitch or 25.4 tpi)

Because there is so little thread I pretty sure that a 3/8" UNF tap & die set will do the trick - thats 0.375" diam x 26 tpi.

Hope this info is of some help.............

Cheers
Barry

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...ay-testing-voltage-batteries-6.html#post50903



This might be of interest also:

What does extra batteryx power mean? Higher voltage? Higher current with the same voltage? USB is 5V. Does that qualify for extra (non-battery) power that will prolong atomizer life?

just to use the one example.. a 901 battery first of all it isnt big enough to do the job its being ask to do.. its a donkey on steroids doing the job a carthorse should be doing.. it does it but only just and its rate of attrition is high..

this is simply down to the size factor.. a carthorse wont fit into the desired small smoking tube.. this is e cig battery fact..

a normal 130 mah 901 battery leaves the charger at 4.2 volts.. when new its capable of delivering the current of near 1 ah an e cig heater coil needs without any noticeable voltage drop.. as the battery ages the time its capable of doing this drops off..

a bigger carthorse battery dosnt suffer from this problem.. it delivers the required current for much longer and it lives for far longer..

a usb socket is five volts but there is some kind of regulator in line somewhere to cut the current delivered to the heater coil.. its better than the normal battery but has wires which are not ideal.. the wires also break after not that much usage.. poor quality cable.. not enough copper strands in it and poor stress relief at the bend points..

no portable battery powered device will work properly without an adequate sized battery.. when the chinese designed e cigs they put form over function.. okay for light occasional use but thats about it.. they are not fit for heavy 30 a day type use

a decent power supply and a manual switch improves e smoking.. combined with a nice fresh atomizer and the whole thing gets workable..

a certain user skill is needed but that comes with practice..

none of this is what the average e smoker wants to hear their new wonder device not being quite up to what its made out to be but that dosnt alter things..

trog

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...3-switching-old-new-atomizer-2.html#post85922

 

[Kate]

This thread has developed into a discussion about charging lithium ion batteries - http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/tips-tricks/5224-battery-university.html

 

[LVD]

This battery at the link below looks like the same size battery as my E-Cigar battery that I am using now. I didn't actually measure my battery to compare it to the dimensions listed on the link.

DealExtreme: $5.77 UltraFire LC 17670 1800mAh 3.6V Rechargeable Battery

A 17670 battery wont fit the cigar which takes 10440's. The number xxyy0 is the diameter xx and lenght yy of the battery in millimeters. For those who still use imperial and didn't figure this one out allready.