Batteries Shmatteries: 18650 excuses why my battery is better than yours

[mudmanc4]

Some great points there!
But I think that there are circumstances where one can say that one battery is safer than another. Not safe, just safer.

In my opinion. IMR and INR batteries are safer than ICR/LiPo. The temperature threshold where IMR/INR goes into thermal runaway is higher than ICR/LiPo. And the temperature of the reaction, if IMR/INR does go into runaway, is a lot lower. This means a very low chance of igniting stuff in the battery and reduces the violence of the runaway. ICR batteries in runaway often ignite the solvent in the electrolyte and the higher reaction temperature raises the internal pressure faster. This can result in a more powerful bursting of the battery, flames, and greater chance of other things being ignited or damaged, including a nearby battery.

I would also argue that a battery that runs at a lower temperature than others is safer. If vaping at 100W, single battery, the temperature of an HB6 can go as high as about 75°C externally. But a VTC4 can rise to as high as about 100°C externally at this power level. This is significantly closer to the temperature where the battery can vent as certain additional exothermic reactions start revving up at about 80°C. Things start melting internally at about 120°C-130°C and the internal temperature is higher than the external temperature. This can lead to internal short circuiting and thermal runaway.

Is an HB6 inherently safer than a VTC4? No.
But it can be safer in an application where its lower operating temperature reduces the risk of something bad happening.

Right, now your being logical and spreading your wealth of experience and knowledge.

However unless each battery is taken to the shop and tested, considering the massive amount of scamming going on there's literally no way of telling, no? Sure , trusted is subjective. At the same time trust is abused as a ritual on a daily basis.

So the point might be, the general consensus of what is good, trusted, combined with your expertise.

 

[crxess]

Extremist

 

[Baditude]

So the point might be, the general consensus of what is good, trusted, combined with your expertise.

High Quality, Brand Name Batteries. Not all IMR cells are created equal. This is where the supplier/manufacturer comes into play. There are quite a few different makers, some you can trust some you can’t.

Buy only the brand names of manufacturers who actually make their own cells (and not re-branding other manufacturer's cells) and have a long history of being reputable. These include:

• LG
  
• Panasonic
• Samsung
  
• Sony

AW allegedly re-brands cells from LG or Panasonic, but they buy only the first tier from them, rebrand them, and publish true specifications.

Efest and many others allegedly re-brand cells, but buy cheaper and lower quality second and third tier cells, rebrand them, and then over-rate the specifications.

Buy only from vendors highly recommended as long term, reputable suppliers such as:

• RTD Vapor
• Illumn
• IMR Batteries
• Orbtronics
• Avoid buying from Ebay, Amazon, or vape shops unless you can positively identify the battery as not being counterfeit.

I personally use AW in my Provari's. Sony VTC4 and Samsung 25R in my mech.

 

[Alien Traveler]

Is it right that if my battery stays at temperature "slightly warm", I am in a safe territory?

 

[roxynoodle]

4 of my 100W mods are running vtc4s. One is running Samsung 25r's because I don't use it for high power.

Other high power regulated mods are running vtc4s.

Mid power regulated mods are running 25r or Efest.

Mechs are running vtc4s or 25r.

 

[Mooch]

Is it right that if my battery stays at temperature "slightly warm", I am in a safe territory?

In my opinion, absolutely safe.

My personal conservative rule of thumb is that if you can hold the battery in a closed fist for 30 seconds then it's not too hot. But this is a very conservative approach that keeps the battery around the 45°C threshold where battery aging accelerates. In just terms of safety I personally feel you can go a lot hotter, up to 60°C-75°C, where the manufacturers set their upper temperature limits. But battery life suffers a lot if it spends much time at these temperatures.

 

[SleeZy]

Sony vtc 4s all over - Mechanical mods here.

 

[skoony]

Even when one is using a known reliable battery from a respected manufacturer
one still has to realize that maximum current draw ratings are not recommended
operating conditions.
Even with all the proper knowledge of the safety issues and circuit specifications
there is no margin of error. This means zero defects in the battery and,zero defects
in the circuit.
This why I believe this issue of the batteries will never go away. When batteries
are made that can run safely,reliably and constantly at the amperage used in some
of these mods people will push the limits of them and the process starts all over again.
Regards
Mike

 

[mudmanc4]

The problem with VTC4's is the low Mah, great for a mech by all means. Though running in an IPV3 Li even at ~1.3 Ohm single coil they hit ~3.6V in just a few hours. Yes, I'm always on the mod, hard like. Running a dual .26 Ohm build you can literally watch the power bar decrease by the minute.

So it's either find a higher Mah power plant , that one does not have to be so concerned of ....-hurting the battery, or stop vaping so much, the latter is actually not in play.

 

[Dopefish]

I have 4 sets of married VTC4's, they're the only battery I use for vaping since I like to build really low resistance coils

 

[Bunnykiller]

well I use the best battery ever made... the "SpitFire" 6.12V 120A pulse at 119A CDR, can use .00001 ohms coils and lasts weeks since its 34,000mah and its only 18100 size and I luv to series 6 of them together for a massive 37V of pure raw hand melting power... to be used by professional vapers only who know ohms law....




and yes this is pure b ess

 

[Bunnykiller]

Is it right that if my battery stays at temperature "slightly warm", I am in a safe territory?

warm is relative ... slightly warm on Venus is ....

 

[Hans Wermhat]

The problem with VTC4's is the low Mah,

2100 mAh is tolerable for me to ensure my safety. I almost never put my iPV4 down and go through 2 sets of batteries a day. It's a LOT better than the HB6 at 1500 mAh.

 

[Night_mirror]

The Sony vtc5's that I bought have the same 30 amp rating as the vtc4 's but has higher mah, so to me, spec wise at least, the 5 is the superior battery. I'm confused as to why everyone seems to like the 4's better. What am I missing?

 

[Bad Ninja]

Never Assume anything when it comes to safety.

Quoted for truth!!
Education and experience required!

 

[diabolique]

I use an Innokin iTaste 134 mini (a regulated mod ). I use AW IMR batts in it. It only takes one at a time, but I have 1 18350 and 2 18490's.

I have an Itaste 134 mini and I have been using efest 18500 3.7v 1000mAh (15A) The mod seems to get hot right around the part that dials in your wattage.aaThats pretty much where my hand is and it really gets too hot, so I am not happy with that. Dose yours do that???

 

[Topwater Elvis]

The Sony vtc5's that I bought have the same 30 amp rating as the vtc4 's but has higher mah, so to me, spec wise at least, the 5 is the superior battery. I'm confused as to why everyone seems to like the 4's better. What am I missing?

The vtc 5 is not a 30a CDR battery, the vtc4 is.

 

[tj99959]

AW IMR 18650 1600mAh.

I use that battery for one simple reason. I've used that same battery for so long that I would know in a heart beat if I bought a fake, or if something was wrong.

Use what you trust!

 

[somdcomputerguy]

I have an Itaste 134 mini and I have been using efest 18500 3.7v 1000mAh (15A) The mod seems to get hot right around the part that dials in your wattage.aaThats pretty much where my hand is and it really gets too hot, so I am not happy with that. Dose yours do that???

Yeah, a bit. I've noticed it more when the batt is getting low on voltage and the wattage dial is turned more to the higher side. I guess this is due to the battery having to 'work harder' to push it's 'set current' thru the higher resistance of the 'VW thing'.

 

[somdcomputerguy]

Quoted for truth!!
Education and experience required!

Yep. There are old electricians, and there are bold electricians. There are no old, bold electricians..