Battery Knock Offs

[TimeLordSavant]

So I'm looking for a legit Sony 18650VCT5 2600mAh 30A and see they are practically impossible to get a hold of. What are the dangers of buying a knock off from Amazon or something? I am still trying to research and understand battery safety and don't have a huge amount of electrical knowledge. I see a lot of "BEWARE its a knockoff" comments in the reviews - and a lot of "yeah its a knockoff but still a good battery" at the same time. Can anyone help explain the risks and what the difference would/could be? Thanks

 

[eyerhere]

Fake batteries are like playing Russian roulette. I'll pass.

 

[drunkenbatman]

Can anyone help explain the risks and what the difference would/could be? Thanks

1. If you don't know the correct safe sustained amperage, you can't safely build your coil to match. So you can compromise the battery, which (hopefully) leads to venting -- depending on your environment or where you are this can mean burns or starting a fire. If it leads to something other then venting it probably means reconstructive surgery and/or moving.

2. If you can know that it's a decent say, 10A efest or something that's been rewrapped and sold as a counterfeit, well you can still build your coil keeping that 10A in mind. However, you may not be able to know what it is, nor it's history before you -- and people have seen terrible small batteries wrapped in packing then labeled and sold as other things.

As eyerhere implied, you're deep into caveat emptor territory.

 

[InTheShade]

So I'm looking for a legit Sony 18650VCT5 2600mAh 30A and see they are practically impossible to get a hold of. What are the dangers of buying a knock off from Amazon or something? I am still trying to research and understand battery safety and don't have a huge amount of electrical knowledge. I see a lot of "BEWARE its a knockoff" comments in the reviews - and a lot of "yeah its a knockoff but still a good battery" at the same time. Can anyone help explain the risks and what the difference would/could be? Thanks

The main issue is you have no idea what is under the wrapping. It could be an ICR battery, a low amperage battery, or even a used or salvaged battery.

The main issue with any of these is you don't know what the battery is capable of, and therefore you can't safely use it for vaping applications (some would say any applications) As you probably know, each atomizer you put on top of your battery tube or box, draws a certain number of amps from the battery. With a regulated APV, this will be limited by the circuitry of the device, and most usually have certain protections to help make them safer. That's not to say bad things can't happen, but most have built in protections. This is why you will see everyone talk about using the right battery for the device and for the resistance of the build you are using.

If you are using it in a mechanical tube or box that offers no protections, then the number of amps you are pulling from the battery again depends on the resistance of the atomizer you put (or build) on top.
Ohms law is the best way to calculate how many amps you will be drawing and an ohm reader or DMM is the best way to check your resistance.

If you exceed the continuous amp draw from your battery, bad things are probably going to happen. Batteries tend to vent when they fail, some explosively and with flame - either way it's not going to be pretty and you may damage your device or get hurt.

A good place to start for battery draws and ohms law is Steam Engine | free vaping calculators

What are you going to be putting the battery in? Many members here can offer places to buy batteries (RTDVapor, Illumination supply etc.) that only sell genuine batteries at reasonable prices.

The Sony VTC4 offers similar performance to the VTC5 and is available for around $11 Sony 18650 VTC4 2100mAh 30a

 

[TimeLordSavant]

Ah - so it could be like a Saturn engine inside a Porche body being advertised for raceway performance... or the other way around... got it

Thanks for the quick replies.

 

[Train2]

The risk is that under the wrapper, you don't know what the specs of the battery are.
They will NOT be 30 amp continuous draw, and therefore if you are running low resistance (sub-ohm) they won't be able to handle it. They'll get hot, then worse than hot.
Better to get a legitimate good battery from a trusted vendor.
These are good. And these. And these.

 

[TimeLordSavant]

I'm actually surprised a legitimate site like Amazon would allow them to be sold if they are high risk and as dangerous as they sound like they could be. Pretty disappointing.

 

[drunkenbatman]

I'm actually surprised a legitimate site like Amazon would allow them to be sold if they are high risk and as dangerous as they sound like they could be. Pretty disappointing.

The marketplace is different from amazon itself, and yes disappointing -- I'm not sure of the process for flagging that sort of thing, but I know others who've tried it with very limited success with other areas (baby carriers not having the right tags, etc)

 

[TimeLordSavant]

Thanks for the links to legit sellers and suggestions on good batteries btw. Everyone on here is so helpful and I am really glad I stumbled across ECF!!

 

[drunkenbatman]

Thanks for the links to legit sellers and suggestions on good batteries btw. Everyone on here is so helpful and I am really glad I stumbled across ECF!!

Glad to be helpful! However, I am starting to get suspicious you don't actually have a T.A.R.D.I.S.

 

[TimeLordSavant]

That's funny, because I was wondering if you actually meant to be in a cape forum.. not a vape one

 

[Joules_Verne]

Touché !
Nice one TLS, I see you will fit in around here just fine

and the advice you were given above is right on the button, batteries are not worth saving a couple of dollars on.

 

[TimeLordSavant]

Thanks for all the responses - went with Sony 18650 VTC4 2100mAh 30a and have 2 on the way.

Another question - are 2 enough to sustain for one who may chain vape? The 2500mAh I use on my regulated usually last me about a day but I will be pulling more power from the sonys on my RDA. Curious how many hours I should expect from a charge per battery.

 

[EBates]

If you are vaping on something that requires 30 amp batteries then 4 or more would more realistic.

 

[aliendeathbreath]

Orbtronic SX30's will keep you in business along time. Ignore the hype of the VTC5.
Anything that hard to find is probably crap when you do!!!
orbtronic.com

 

[drunkenbatman]

Another question - are 2 enough to sustain for one who may chain vape? The 2500mAh I use on my regulated usually last me about a day but I will be pulling more power from the sonys on my RDA. Curious how many hours I should expect from a charge per battery.

*suspicious glance* Again, someone who can go into the future should know whether they'll run out of juice.

You're on the right track that it's really going to depend upon the power being used -- and I don't think you said what you're using for a mod or what ohm you'll be targetting -- but probably. Will these be paired in a mod? Used individually? For the most part you're talking about the amount of milli-amps you'll be pulling over the course of the day. The below calculator will give you an idea.

Battery drain | Steam Engine | free vaping calculators

 

[TimeLordSavant]

Damn, Bruce! Always suspicious - Cut a Time Lord some slack!!

Single 18650 Mod with a Hobo V2 - since its my first RDA targeting .8 or .9 Ohms - I have .26 Kanthal on 8 wraps. I haven't hooked it onto a meter yet to test the resistance. Waiting for the batteries to arrive to wick and test. I figure the 30A should be more than enough juice - just curious on the lifespan - ya know - since I have centuries ahead of me. Lots of time to tinker. I could ask the T.A.R.D.I.S. but she's been moody lately.

 

[TimeLordSavant]

By the way - its a Steampunk clone Mod (Steampunk Mod Clone Review | Guide To Vaping) - not because I like steampunk - but because the gears remind me of a certain Peter Capaldi intro. I would love to get my hands on one of these bad boys Sonic Screwdriver Vape - Bing Images but I'm not that vested or mechanically inclined to make my own. Maybe one day... because I'm a nerd like that and don't care what anyone thinks.

 

[jwag1973]

Rtd Vapor has Sony VTC4's in stock, I'd start there. I have both VTC4 / VTC5 and they both work very well.

 

[sleepysworld]

Honestly in my opinion if you wann save some cash and won't build below .3 get samsung 26f they have a 20 amp pulse every site says diffrent specs on then but I trust the 20 amp pulse I have 4 of them and I ran everyone I own dead on a .25 ohm parallel and they don't get hot or any signs of venting and been doing so for a month at .4 but I never over charge my batterys or run them below 3.6v just to stay safe