Battery maintenance

[Robinowitz]

So I had a pretty big "surprise" the other evening which started with a spark, tiny flame and smoldering near the battery connection, once I got the door off. Fortunately or unfortunately, I didn't see the spark, flame as the door was on.

A tad bit of back story on the event: The Wood wasn't hitting so I switched batteries from my Mini. (See below for my battery changing habits). I'm not actually sure which battery was in the Wood when my mishap occurred as it was a frenzied moment once the fireworks started. I tested both on the multi-meter once I caught my breath! One was 2.0 (recycled now) the other 3.7.

I'm emailing Rob about my precious Woodville and am not using it until we figure out if she is injured. But this does lead me to investigate what I need to do in order not to have this happen again. I've done a ton of searching and read everything I can find on battery safety.

Here's what I do now: each time I refill the stock bottle (every day) I put in a freshly charged AW IMR 18490. I only notice a slight, if any performance decline when it is time to fill up. I generally run 1.1 or 1.2 in Mini and 1.4 in Wood. (It still meters 1.4 even after the show).
I use a Pila 4 charger. Lately, I've been using my multimeter to check "spent batteries" (time for refill) and they are at 3.7-3.9.

Other than pulling out the multimeter or Provari to check on the status throughout the day, is there an easier way? Is there a charger with a built in multimeter that can signal when a battery is getting close to needing to be recycled? What am I missing? I'm not new to Reos or vaping, but this one has me humbled.

Thanks in advance.

 

[unsure]

http://www.xtarlight.com/05-chanpin/p-001-1.asp?styleid=233 has a digital display.

 

[Papa_Lazarou]

Yep - +1 for the xtar with meters. I would at least tell you the voltage - you'd need to infer the bat's degradation.

 

[Robinowitz]

Yep - +1 for the xtar with meters. I would at least tell you the voltage - you'd need to infer the bat's degradation.

Just to make sure I understand this: when I change batteries, I pop it in this charger and if it is below ? (2.5?), forget about re-charging and recycle battery?
Also, is it true to assume that a battery that is ending it's healthy life cycle will show low readings before actually completely discharging while in use? Forgive me, am a tad paranoid now and am really wanting to prevent this happening again.

Thanks again!

 

[Spydro]

What I use for my main batt chargers...

Efest LUC V2 LCD Multi-function Smart Li-Ion Charger

Efest LUC V4 LCD Li-Ion Charger

Review of Charger Efest LUC V4

 

[Robinowitz]

http://www.xtarlight.com/05-chanpin/p-001-1.asp?styleid=233 has a digital display.

Thank you so much! Ordered and feel better all ready. Back to squonking on my Mini......sure hope my beloved Woodville is okay.

 

[kinggirl]

So on this xtar charger it says that it has 3 charging levels. Which one do you charge at? I have a feeling some of my batteries need to be trashed. I have no idea what they are when I put them on. I'm currently using the nitecore intellicharge but some of my batteries are 6 months to a year old. The chances are high that they need to be replaced. While I'm on this thread, I use the AW red batteries for both mini and grand. Are there better batteries I should be using? Sorry robinowitz to hear what happened! But, all of this has been fresh on my mind lately so I'm glad you posted because otherwise I keep forgetting.

 

[kinggirl]

whats the difference between xtar vp1 and vp2? http://www.amazon.com/XTAR-Selectable-Current-Battery-Charger/dp/B00K88LH88/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1411330562&sr=8-1&keywords=xtar+charger

 

[RattlerX]

So on this xtar charger it says that it has 3 charging levels. Which one do you charge at? I have a feeling some of my batteries need to be trashed. I have no idea what they are when I put them on. I'm currently using the nitecore intellicharge but some of my batteries are 6 months to a year old. The chances are high that they need to be replaced. While I'm on this thread, I use the AW red batteries for both mini and grand. Are there better batteries I should be using? Sorry robinowitz to hear what happened! But, all of this has been fresh on my mind lately so I'm glad you posted because otherwise I keep forgetting.

Since I do not need to rush a charge I charge on .25A. It is a slower charge.

 

[RattlerX]

whats the difference between xtar vp1 and vp2? Amazon.com : XTAR Vp2 Selectable Current Li-ion Battery Charger : Camera & Photo

It has a USB out so it can charge other items.

 

[ancient puffer]

I'm curious now. Back to the original question. Does anyone know what could have caused this? I'm given to understand that as batteries age they are less able to hold a charge, or the charge won't last as long, not become disasters like this one.

Does anyone know if aging batteries are more prone to venting/discharging/fizzling/doing bad things inside our REOs?

ETA: I only found one study that seemed relevant (here). Apparently, the jury is still out, but there seems to be some indication that as Li-ion batteries age, they do in fact become more susceptible to thermal runaway. At least that's how it "seems" at this point.

Personally, I have AW IMR 18650's from 2010 that are still in use, but only in flashlights, since I've recently switched to Sony VTC5's for my grands. I intend to continue to follow the research, but in the meantime, I'm going to retire/recycle any Li-ion batteries I have that are over 2 yrs old.

 

[Filthy-Beast]

I would argue that testing the batteries internal voltage drop over time is better way to tell what's going on. It should show a much higher drop under load before it would get to the point that it won't hold a charge.

Problems with this is each battery can be different
Would require that you mark the batteries and keep a record
Requires the same ohm coil be tested each time since volt drop increase with higher amp loads.

I don't do this now but might on my next new batteries.

I currently have 18, 18650 batteries in rotation for 8 mods, so each battery rests several days before it gets used after charging. I buy batteries 4 at a time and add them to the rotation. the 4 oldest rotate to flashlight use and the old flashlight batteries get disposed of . I buy batteries 2 or 3 times a year.

 

[ancient puffer]

I'm curious, FB, my 18650 flashlight doesn't appear to have any sort of vent to allow gases to escape in the event of thermal runaway, do yours? And if not, does it concern you? (It does me, thermal runaway isn't pretty)

 

[Robinowitz]

I'm curious now. Back to the original question. Does anyone know what could have caused this? I'm given to understand that as batteries age they are less able to hold a charge, or the charge won't last as long, not become disasters like this one.

Does anyone know if aging batteries are more prone to venting/discharging/fizzling/doing bad things inside our REOs?

Thanks Ancient. It sure has me scratching my head....

I'm pretty good with maintenance and care. (I have the "take care of your vehicle and your vehicle will take care of you" mantra in my head). Perhaps I will number my batteries. I have 3 ( now) 18490's now. This way I don't have to wonder if they are being equally used/charged and discharged.

Curiously, I know it is time to recharge around 3.7 (for me). When do you all decide to take a battery out of rotation? (Ie, when it discharges below .....)

 

[RattlerX]

I'm curious now. Back to the original question. Does anyone know what could have caused this? I'm given to understand that as batteries age they are less able to hold a charge, or the charge won't last as long, not become disasters like this one.

Does anyone know if aging batteries are more prone to venting/discharging/fizzling/doing bad things inside our REOs?

Thanks Ancient. It sure has me scratching my head....

I'm pretty good with maintenance and care. (I have the "take care of your vehicle and your vehicle will take care of you" mantra in my head). Perhaps I will number my batteries. I have 3 ( now) 18490's now. This way I don't have to wonder if they are being equally used/charged and discharged.

Curiously, I know it is time to recharge around 3.7 (for me). When do you all decide to take a battery out of rotation? (Ie, when it discharges below .....)

I have started noticing that some of my older batteries are not lasting as long on a vape. On my AW IMR 1600 that are 7 months old I do not get to half a bottle on them before they hit 3.7/3.8 and I pull them. Keep in mind that I rotate 16 batteries and have a good way to keep up with the rotation so they may be lasting me longer or shorter than others. I will use each battery at least once a week carrying two REO's a day with me. But I know that it is getting time to replace because they are going south on me. I have one that no longer charges to 4.20. It only charges 4.19 so this is another way to see it is getting older. I use the VP1 charger and it continually tells me the voltage.

 

[unsure]

Battery and charger safety is important and if you google it you'll find some informative reads on the subject.

 

[Rickajho]

whats the difference between xtar vp1 and vp2? Amazon.com : XTAR Vp2 Selectable Current Li-ion Battery Charger : Camera & Photo

Both have digital displays.

The VP1 has selectable charge current only. You can charge batteries as small as 10440's in it. On the other end: It will fit batteries up to 18650 size.

The VP2 has both selectable charge current and charge voltage. With selectable voltages it can charge LiPo's, standard Li-On's and the few oddball Li-On's in the market that finish at (and require) a termination voltage of 4.4 volts. It can also fit 26650 size. Unless you plan on using 26650's, LiPo's or those weird "high voltage" Li-On's the added voltage selections confuse people more than anything else.

 

[Rickajho]

So I had a pretty big "surprise" the other evening which started with a spark, tiny flame and smoldering near the battery connection, once I got the door off. Fortunately or unfortunately, I didn't see the spark, flame as the door was on.

A tad bit of back story on the event: The Wood wasn't hitting so I switched batteries from my Mini. (See below for my battery changing habits). I'm not actually sure which battery was in the Wood when my mishap occurred as it was a frenzied moment once the fireworks started. I tested both on the multi-meter once I caught my breath! One was 2.0 (recycled now) the other 3.7.

I'm emailing Rob about my precious Woodville and am not using it until we figure out if she is injured. But this does lead me to investigate what I need to do in order not to have this happen again. I've done a ton of searching and read everything I can find on battery safety.

Here's what I do now: each time I refill the stock bottle (every day) I put in a freshly charged AW IMR 18490. I only notice a slight, if any performance decline when it is time to fill up. I generally run 1.1 or 1.2 in Mini and 1.4 in Wood. (It still meters 1.4 even after the show).
I use a Pila 4 charger. Lately, I've been using my multimeter to check "spent batteries" (time for refill) and they are at 3.7-3.9.

Other than pulling out the multimeter or Provari to check on the status throughout the day, is there an easier way? Is there a charger with a built in multimeter that can signal when a battery is getting close to needing to be recycled? What am I missing? I'm not new to Reos or vaping, but this one has me humbled.

Thanks in advance.

Need moar infos:

To be clear, the oopsie happened in a Woodvil?

If the door was in place, how/where did you see the spark?

What did the positive terminal on the battery look like? Was there any discoloration to the shrink wrap or blackening of the battery terminal?

With no battery in place - but with the RM2 on it, have you taken a meter to the Woodvil to check for both continuity now and shorts?

Was the battery you pulled out significantly warm to the touch?

 

[Rickajho]

Just to make sure I understand this: when I change batteries, I pop it in this charger and if it is below ? (2.5?), forget about re-charging and recycle battery?

Not necessarily.

The low safe limit for almost all IMR batteries is 2.5 volts. That is, charging above 4.2 volts or depleting below 2.5 volts causes the chemistry of the battery to break down faster. Dropping an IMR battery below 2.5 volts occasion doesn't create an instant hazard, but doing it chronically will definitely shorten it's life span. Really stressing a battery - like a runaway short with a blasted magnetic switch from hell while you are running around for two minutes trying to find the oven mitts and a pair of pliers to get the thing apart is a far more serious issue.

Also, is it true to assume that a battery that is ending it's healthy life cycle will show low readings before actually completely discharging while in use? Forgive me, am a tad paranoid now and am really wanting to prevent this happening again.

Thanks again!

Ok, I'm not sure what you are asking with that one. We all know Li-On's are charged to a termination voltage of 4.2 volts. But that doesn't necessarily mean a battery can hold that 4.2 volts at rest. As batteries age out you will see that resting voltage "roll back" with time - further and faster the older they get. On something like an Xtar VP1 that monitors battery voltage you will see that right on the charger display

For example: I had a pair of eFest 18350's that were developing shorter and shorter run time during use. On the charger: Right up to 4.2 volts as it should. Within an hour of the end of the charge cycle, right down to 3.86 volts. Clearly they were losing capacity to hold a charge.

I was thinking it was time to bin them anyway. (Crappy eFests...) The very next time I put them on the charger the Xtar said "nope, ain't gonna do it" for one of them. I even tried that one on a very cheap charger and it also refused to initiate charging. Most likely both chargers were monitoring the internal resistance of the battery and that was the end of that.

Ultimately, only you know how you are treating your batteries. Like I said, an occasional drop below 2.5 volts during normal use is one thing. A hard short in mechanical that takes way too long to get apart is something else.

 

[Rourke]

Is this trustfire charger safe for the recommended Reo batteries? AW IMR 18650
Thanks.