Battery Question

[Gregg]

Hi Isaac,

Two months new to vapeing but have progressed to a mod, not yours but it may be on your new model in the works, due to wanting more vapor since I was a cigar smoker and was just not getting what I was looking for. So, purchased an Omega and running Tenergy RCR123A 3.0V 750mAh Yellow batteries stacked. Also use it with the 18650's with LR atties and carts, (not yours yet but they are on the way), but mostly @ the 6V.

My question/problem is that the RCR123A's are expanding, which I have stopped using when I see them. My question is: What is causing this? Is it too fast of a Drain during usage or caused by the charging process? I have only used the charger that came with them, was a 6 pack and a charger bundle. Noticed the first one on the second charge, and they have been popping up along the way. Have 6-7 out of 12 original purchased about 3 weeks ago.

Second question: Since the charger that came with the RCR123A's is a quick charger I assume, can they be charged in the Dual Charger that came with my Tenergey 18650's which also state that it can charge 123A's but believe it is a slow charger?

I was pointed to Iken from the NewUsers Forum where I had asked about the expanding ones, and was told Isaac was the man to talk too for battery questions.

Thanks much for any comments,
Gregg

 

[Switched]

Hi Isaac,

Two months new to vapeing but have progressed to a mod, not yours but it may be on your new model in the works, due to wanting more vapor since I was a cigar smoker and was just not getting what I was looking for. So, purchased an Omega and running Tenergy RCR123A 3.0V 750mAh Yellow batteries stacked. Also use it with the 18650's with LR atties and carts, (not yours yet but they are on the way), but mostly @ the 6V.

My question/problem is that the RCR123A's are expanding, which I have stopped using when I see them. My question is: What is causing this? Is it too fast of a Drain during usage or caused by the charging process? I have only used the charger that came with them, was a 6 pack and a charger bundle. Noticed the first one on the second charge, and they have been popping up along the way. Have 6-7 out of 12 original purchased about 3 weeks ago.

Second question: Since the charger that came with the RCR123A's is a quick charger I assume, can they be charged in the Dual Charger that came with my Tenergey 18650's which also state that it can charge 123A's but believe it is a slow charger?

I was pointed to Iken from the NewUsers Forum where I had asked about the expanding ones, and was told Isaac was the man to talk too for battery questions.

Thanks much for any comments,
Gregg

Batteries expanding = trash can.

It may be caused by the fact the Omega uses a hot spring. The yellows are really underrated for 6V applications. I use the blues, which apparently are as well but I have not had any problems with them.

You can only use the charger that they came with, and should you go with the blues, they require a special charger as well.

The answer to the 18650 charger the answer in NO, as that charger takes them up to 4.2V 4.1 actually.

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/ikenvape/118964-switcheds-battery-faq.html

 

[mwa102464]

Gregg,

You could also try switching to the AW 3.0V Batts they are of the highest quality in my opinion !

 

[Iken]

Hi Greg,
Yes, Just like Switcher was saying discard those batteries immediately. What you are seeing is gas build up. Lithium polymer and aluminum cased li-ion batteries are known to expand due to gas build up. AW batteries are built with a steel case
so they won't expand because the hardness of the shell, the gas would be directed through the safety vents if it was to occur. There are many reasons to cause gas buildup such as operating temperature's, too much current draw, and improper charge of the battery.
When I was demoing Tenergy's batteries and "special" charger (which oddly enough is only for LiFePO4 and Li-ion) I noticed the charger wasn't providing a correct charge as the batteries took 6-8 hours (slow charging for better performance)but then only supplied 2-3 hours of vape time. I then broke up the li-ion and lifepO4 between the machinist and myself, so we both can record the findings on using them on a standard WF-138 charger, in which gave us 2-2.5 hours to fully charge the battery and give off 5-7 hours run time stacked.

You don't want to use a specified 3.7V charger on 3.0v batteries. This will lead ultimately to an improper charge and can make the battery unstable providing it with too much amperage. If there isn't a switch to set to a 3.0V option or one to adjust the amperage. I wouldn't recommend it. If this one here is the one your referring to, it's only good for 3.7V batteries.

Universal Li-Ion battery charger for18650, RCR123A, 17670 3.7V Li-Ion cells.

You have to watch for it. It doesn't state 3.0V anywhere on the description. Always be careful when choosing a right charger. I can't recommend it, but I was sent this one here to demo and it kept the same traits as the Tenergy charger as not charging the batteries at full capacity. It could've been a defective one.
Hope this helps Greg!
Sincerely,
Isaac

 

[Switched]

Gregg,

You could also try switching to the AW 3.0V Batts they are of the highest quality in my opinion !

... absolutely! Providing he is made aware he can't charge them with his current charger (Tenergy)

 

[Switched]

Hi Greg,
Yes, Just like Switcher was saying discard those batteries immediately. What you are seeing is gas build up. Lithium polymer and aluminum cased li-ion batteries are known to expand due to gas build up. AW batteries are built with a steel case
so they won't expand because the hardness of the shell, the gas would be directed through the safety vents if it was to occur. There are many reasons to cause gas buildup such as operating temperature's, too much current draw, and improper charge of the battery.
When I was demoing Tenergy's batteries and "special" charger (which oddly enough is only for LiFePO4 and Li-ion) I noticed the charger wasn't providing a correct charge as the batteries took 6-8 hours (slow charging for better performance)but then only supplied 2-3 hours of vape time. I then broke up the li-ion and lifepO4 between the machinist and myself, so we both can record the findings on using them on a standard WF-138 charger, in which gave us 2-2.5 hours to fully charge the battery and give off 5-7 hours run time stacked.

You don't want to use a specified 3.7V charger on 3.0v batteries. This will lead ultimately to an improper charge and can make the battery unstable providing it with too much amperage. If there isn't a switch to set to a 3.0V option or one to adjust the amperage. I wouldn't recommend it. If this one here is the one your referring to, it's only good for 3.7V batteries.
You have to watch for it. It doesn't state 3.0V anywhere on the description. Always be careful when choosing a right charger. I can't recommend it, but I was sent this one here to demo and it kept the same traits as the Tenergy charger as not charging the batteries at full capacity. It could've been a defective one.
Hope this helps Greg!
Sincerely,
Isaac

That is interesting Isaac as I am getting 6-8 hrs per charge (Blues stacked) but the downside, it takes a solid 8 hrs to charge. AWs on the other hand 2 hrs top.

 

[Iken]

Thats the thing Switcher, they say to stick with the same batteries and same charger, but I believe it's just a marketing ploy (I could be wrong)I see two things in a charger, amps and volts.A WF-138 has an output of 5.2V, but so does a cellphone charger. Most batteries have the same size generally has the same output as amperage.This could be ignorance talking. It just doesn't make sense on Why does a specific 16340 charger has to be used on specific 16340.

 

[Vaporologist]

I have been advised that both, the WF-138 charger set at 3V and Tenergy charger (the one for LifePO4 batts), can be used for charging both Tenergy LifePO4 and AW LifePO4 batts.

Edit: Also, here is something interesting I read earlier today that I was not aware of:

"The WF-188 can auto-sense a battery's voltage and charge rate and adjust to that battery, thus you can charge two different size batteries at the same time, but the batteries must be in the charger before you plug it in for the auto-sensing to work. This instruction is in the documentation that comes with the charger."

 

[Gregg]

Thank you all for the input on this. I have stopped using all of my RCR123A batteries after reading the link Switched posted on battery care, I have no clue what set is what anymore. I'd rather be on the safe side and dump the others and start fresh with the batteries you are suggesting along with another charger. Just have to go through this thread and compile a buy list for the Ikenvape site. This time will follow the labeling and swapping the sets top to bottom while vapeing.

Switched: your saying that your getting more than a couple three hours off of a set of the ones your using? You see I'd only get at the most 3 hours use with a set. So I think Isaac may have a point with the charger being a problem.

Will add more to this tomorrow. Long day and need the bed. Also, didn't mention in my original post that these are LiFePO4 RCR123A's.

Thanks again all!

 

[Switched]

I have been advised that both, the WF-138 charger set at 3V and Tenergy charger (the one for LifePO4 batts), can be used for charging both Tenergy LifePO4 and AW LifePO4 batts.

Edit: Also, here is something interesting I read earlier today that I was not aware of:

"The WF-188 can auto-sense a battery's voltage and charge rate and adjust to that battery, thus you can charge two different size batteries at the same time, but the batteries must be in the charger before you plug it in for the auto-sensing to work. This instruction is in the documentation that comes with the charger."

That is something I would not personally rely on. You know me and electronics. BU does not recommend this practice and therefore I head their recommendations.

 

[Switched]

Thats the thing Switcher, they say to stick with the same batteries and same charger, but I believe it's just a marketing ploy (I could be wrong)I see two things in a charger, amps and volts.A WF-138 has an output of 5.2V, but so does a cellphone charger. Most batteries have the same size generally has the same output as amperage.This could be ignorance talking. It just doesn't make sense on Why does a specific 16340 charger has to be used on specific 16340.

I hear you my good man and I have thought of that as well. I can't speak for the LifePO charger as I don't own one, nor their batteries (Tenergy). That being said, I cannot go against what has previously been written that - When in doubt go by the manufacturer's recommendation.

The charger that came with my blues although it puts out 360mA, is much slower than the SE-H001 for 3.6V I got from you for my AW 3.7V 750s, which has a charging rate of 300mA.

OTOH, the AW LifePOs charge in 2-2.5hrs on the WF138 with a charging capacity of 250mA at 3V. Yet both those chargers charge quicker than the Tenergy charger which has 300mA.

Wrt the WF138 the performance with the LifePo is as expected 2-2.5hrs for a pair of 500mAh batts.

I believe the on board PCB on the Tenergy batteries regulates the charging rate to 100mA which in turns makes sense as the batts take 8-9hrs to charge. Notwithstanding the charge time, we all know a slower charge cycle is better than a fast one, again recommended in BU.

for Vaporologist

I read that thread as well and one thing that was pointed out is that his batteries (Tenergy) do get warm on the WF138, my batts never get warm on any of my chargers, the charger does but I don't feel the batteries do.

As usual as I would not knowingly lead people astray, I simply don't know what to say.

These are the chargers I use. From left to right:

• Tenergy 3.0V (blue) charger
• SE-H001 for 3.6V AW batts
• WF-138 for 3 and 3.6V batts
• AG126 (universal charger)

With the exception of the Tenergys and the AW LifePOs, all my batteries can be charged with the AG-126. For convenience only, I use all 4.

 

[Switched]

Thank you all for the input on this. I have stopped using all of my RCR123A batteries after reading the link Switched posted on battery care, I have no clue what set is what anymore. I'd rather be on the safe side and dump the others and start fresh with the batteries you are suggesting along with another charger. Just have to go through this thread and compile a buy list for the Ikenvape site. This time will follow the labeling and swapping the sets top to bottom while vapeing.

Switched: your saying that your getting more than a couple three hours off of a set of the ones your using? You see I'd only get at the most 3 hours use with a set. So I think Isaac may have a point with the charger being a problem.

Will add more to this tomorrow. Long day and need the bed. Also, didn't mention in my original post that these are LiFePO4 RCR123A's.

Thanks again all!

Could very well be the charger, as Isaac's run times fall within the expected norm AFAIC.

Something I would like to point out. When I acquired my lizard, Isaac did not have the batteries nor chargers in stock at the time, so I had to source elsewhere. When it comes time to replace my batts I may very well go a different route then the one I originally took, as I know more about batts now than I did then. For sure all my batteries down the road will be the AW line, because of their performance and consistency (QC). I prefer protected batteries and I am still gun shy wrt LifePO or LiMn (IMRs), but maybe a greater understanding of these two chemistry will provide me enough confidence to adopt them... in time.

 

[Vaporologist]

Switched, in my experience, LiFePO4 batts do get a little warm while charging. None of my other batts do including my AW IMRs but all three of my AW LifePO4 sets get noticeably warm. The first time I charged my LiFePO4 batts I got a little worried because I never experienced that with any other batts. I thought that maybe there was something wrong with my WF-138 charger. But I have two of those chargers and it happens on both. I think maybe it has something to do with the different chemistry in LiFePO4 batteries.

 

[Switched]

Switched, in my experience, LiFePO4 batts do get a little warm while charging. None of my other batts do including my AW IMRs but all three of my AW LifePO4 sets get noticeably warm. The first time I charged my LiFePO4 batts I got a little worried because I never experienced that with any other batts. I thought that maybe there was something wrong with my WF-138 charger. But I have two of those chargers and it happens on both. I think maybe it has something to do with the different chemistry in LiFePO4 batteries.

Could very well be my friend I haven't used mine in a long time after the review (due to them being lopsided) but I honestly don't rememeber if they did or didn't, but it is indeed possible. I will keep that in mind when my blues bite the dust.

 

[Iken]

I hear you my good man and I have thought of that as well. I can't speak for the LifePO charger as I don't own one, nor their batteries (Tenergy). That being said, I cannot go against what has previously been written that - When in doubt go by the manufacturer's recommendation.

The charger that came with my blues although it puts out 360mA, is much slower than the SE-H001 for 3.6V I got from you for my AW 3.7V 750s, which has a charging rate of 300mA.

OTOH, the AW LifePOs charge in 2-2.5hrs on the WF138 with a charging capacity of 250mA at 3V. Yet both those chargers charge quicker than the Tenergy charger which has 300mA.

Wrt the WF138 the performance with the LifePo is as expected 2-2.5hrs for a pair of 500mAh batts.

I believe the on board PCB on the Tenergy batteries regulates the charging rate to 100mA which in turns makes sense as the batts take 8-9hrs to charge. Notwithstanding the charge time, we all know a slower charge cycle is better than a fast one, again recommended in BU.

That was another ice breaker for me. Tenergy themselves, sent me LiFepO4 and Li-ion and a few samples of their 2200mah and 2600mah 18650 batteries (which is irrelevant to the topic) with just one 16340/123a charger. The question at hand is, how can they recommend special specific chargers with their batteries but yet provide what can be a marketing candidate with just one charger?

Could very well be the charger, as Isaac's run times fall within the expected norm AFAIC.

Something I would like to point out. When I acquired my lizard, Isaac did not have the batteries nor chargers in stock at the time, so I had to source elsewhere. When it comes time to replace my batts I may very well go a different route then the one I originally took, as I know more about batts now than I did then. For sure all my batteries down the road will be the AW line, because of their performance and consistency (QC). I prefer protected batteries and I am still gun shy wrt LifePO or LiMn (IMRs), but maybe a greater understanding of these two chemistry will provide me enough confidence to adopt them... in time.

Here's a couple good reads and source on Lifepo4 for you. Li Ion
http://visforvoltage.org/forum/3340-li-ion-–-vs-–-lifepo4
and http://www.falconev.com/batteries.html
you already know the latter, but to do the calculations on the amount being applied, consumed and effected is some good knowledge to break down to our vaping world.

 

[Switched]

I sure don't have an answer for you my good man. Thanks for the links, I have them bookmarked fro tomorrow's coffee.

 

[Gregg]

Well I believe I will be getting the following list unless there is anything that will do better from any suggestions from you all.

Ultrafire WF-138 charger
Tenergy RCR-123a Li-ion 3.0v 900mah (Blue)
AW RCR-123 16340 LiFePO4 3.0v 500mah (Blue)

Would like to try the AW's listed but don't like them only being 500mah but will give them a try so as to compare.

Any comments would be appreciated on the list. Also will pick up one of the Hongda DT95B MM's since my old one has seen better days and the small button battery for it costs more than I paid for the thing.

Want to thank you all for your help on this, you all have been great.

 

[Vaporologist]

Well I believe I will be getting the following list unless there is anything that will do better from any suggestions from you all.

Ultrafire WF-138 charger
Tenergy RCR-123a Li-ion 3.0v 900mah (Blue)
AW RCR-123 16340 LiFePO4 3.0v 500mah (Blue)

Would like to try the AW's listed but don't like them only being 500mah but will give them a try so as to compare.

Any comments would be appreciated on the list. Also will pick up one of the Hongda DT95B MM's since my old one has seen better days and the small button battery for it costs more than I paid for the thing.

Want to thank you all for your help on this, you all have been great.

The only thing I don't see on your list is the right charger for the Tenergy batts. You can use the WF-138 charger for AW LifePO4s and Tenergy LifePO4s (make sure to set it on 3.0V) but you need a specific charger recommended by the manufacturer for your blue Tenergy RCR Li-ion 3.0V batts and that charger should only be used for those specific batteries.

One more thing. Don't be discouraged by AW's "low" mah rating. That rating is accurate while other manufacturers tend to over-exaggerate their mah ratings. You should be able to get 7-8 solid hours of vaping with two AW LifePO4 stacked batteries. I personally prefer a batt that's "safe" and doesn't need protection vs. the one that's more dangerous thus requiring a protection circuit. IMO the most important thing is to get batts which have a continuous max discharge rate greater than the amp draw requirement of atties used with those batteries. AW LiFePO4 batts are considered to be the best for 6V applications.

 

[Switched]

I picked up on the charger as well earlier this am and omited to reply based that the recommendation had previously been mentioned and subsequently it got confusing. That being said...

I used both sets of batts and as VP stated the mAh ratings can be deceiving. I get 6-8 hrs out of both sets. (LifePo and Blues)

 

[Gregg]

OK, then I'll skip the Tenergys since now I recall Switched mentioning the need for the special charger for those. Glad it was spotted.

Confusing isn't the word for it on this end.

The price showing on Ikenvape for the AW Blues is that per pair? Pricey if single, but you get what you pay for as mentioned.