Battery Question

[PhatRon]

Anyone heard of this type of battery for use in a mech?

Amazon.com: 5 PKCell ICR 18650 ICR18650 30 Amp High Drain Li-Ion Rechargeable Battery 1600mAh 3.7v New: Electronics

 

[PhatRon]

bump
10char.

 

[Rickajho]

This is the second time that battery has come up in the last 24 hours. It's a mystery battery from an obscure China company, that may only be rewrapping batteries and not actually manufacturing them, with no real manufacturer specifications, no real world tests, and may even be unsafe ICR chemistry as the "ICR" implies. You don't buy batteries that can't be backed up with manufacturer data and real world diagnostic test results.

 

[Ryedan]

Interesting, someone else was asking about these yesterday. They are likely Efest cells, but not sure and there are no reviews or other information on them out there that I could find. Personally I would not try them for vaping until that changes. Prefer to stick with what RTD, Orbtronics and Illumination Supply sell.

ETA: LOL Rick, you beat me again

 

[Baditude]

There is no such thing as a high drain ICR battery. That makes me suspecious right from the start.

 

[Funk Dracula]

There is no such thing as a high drain ICR battery.

Not true.

ICR's are high drain, Baditude. 18650 ICR batteries are used in high drain applications all the time. In fact, I'm trying to think of an application that they are used in that isn't high drain....

Regardless...


To the OP;

Really? That listing looks shady as hell.

STOP LOOKING FOR DEALS ON BATTERIES. It's not wise. If five 30 Amp batteries for $20 sounds like it's too good to be true, it is. Stick with trusted vendors, who have a high product turnover rate (no old batteries sitting on shelves). The battery is the one thing you can't take a chance on, it's not worth saving a few bucks. Just deal with the fact your going to spend $9 - $13 on a battery for piece of mind. They last a long time anyways...

Some trusted vendors:

18650 Li-ion Batteries and Quick Chargers
Genuine AW Batteries at RTD Vapor
Batteries + carriers & testers

 

[Baditude]

Not true.

ICR's are high drain, Baditude. 18650 ICR batteries are used in high drain applications all the time. In fact, I'm trying to think of an application that they are used in that isn't high drain....

No, you're wrong. You must be thinking of the INR hybrid batteries (LiNiCoMnP) made by Samsung, which are indeed high-drain.

IMR (Li-Mn)[AW, MNKE, Efest] and NCR hybrids (LiNiCOMnO2)(LiNiCoAl)[Panasonic, Orbtronic] are also high drain, all of which are also called safer-chemistry, and un-protected. These use either manganese or nickel which give them their safer chemistry and high drain capacity.


ICR (Li-Ion) are the cobalt-based, volatile chemistry batteries requiring protective circuits built into the cell. These have a high mAh capacity, but are not high-drain nor safe-chemistry.

BATTERY BASICS FOR MODS: IMR OR PROTECTED ICR?

DEEPER UNDERSTANDING OF MOD BATTERIES

 

[RogerWilco357]

I second that buy from A reputable seller not worth the chance of it going bad and injuring yourself ...

 

[Funk Dracula]

No, you're wrong. You must be thinking of the INR hybrid batteries (LiNiCoMnP) made by Samsung, which are indeed high-drain.

IMR (Li-Mn)[AW, MNKE, Efest] and NCR hybrids (LiNiCOMnO2)(LiNiCoAl)[Panasonic, Orbtronic] are also high drain, all of which are also called safer-chemistry, and un-protected. These use either manganese or nickel which give them their safer chemistry and high drain capacity.


ICR (Li-Ion) are the cobalt-based, volatile chemistry batteries requiring protective circuits built into the cell. These are not high-drain nor safe-chemistry.

BATTERY BASICS FOR MODS: IMR OR PROTECTED ICR?

DEEPER UNDERSTANDING OF MOD BATTERIES

I know the difference.

ICR: I = Li-ion C = Colbalt R = Round
A lot more capacity (mAh) than IMR, but not as capable of as high of a draw as IMR. Offered in protected and unprotected. Chemistry is more susceptible to thermal runaway at lower temperatures.

IMR: I = Li-ion M = Manganese R = Round
Less capacity (mAh) but capable of higher continuous draw. Unprotected due to safer chemistry. Basically, you'd have to deliberately damage and artificially create the conditions to cause a thermal runaway. Some people 'round here (ahem..) would have you believe that if you come within 20 Amps of the batteries Amp limit that you'll "blow your face off." That is a hyperbole.


ICR's are still high drain, man. Some reputable brands up to 7 Amps protected. They're used in power tools, laptops, cell phones, and many other high drain applications. They're still used in a lot of applications because the consumer demands longer run times. It's only in e-cigs, where it is up to the user to use them within their limits, that the damn things are more likely to encounter misuse and become a photo opportunity of thermal destruction.

Are protected ICR's as safe as IMR's for an idiot building his own coils to use on a mech?
Nope.

Are protected ICR's worth the extra mAh in the hands of somebody using with care? (> 1.8Ω and not sub-ohming)
Sure, but with safer hybrids offering the same mAh it's a dying breed. If you want more mAh on your mech, it's going to be a trade off for increased mAh and safe chemistry and/or amp limits. Know your batteries limitations, and build your coils accordingly.

Should the OP buy a 5-pack of unprotected ICR's, from a shady seller on Amazon, to use on his mech, building and running coils he thinks will be safe up to 30A??
NO. Call an ambulance.

 

[Ryedan]

ICR's are still high drain, man. Some reputable brands up to 7 Amps protected. They're used in power tools, laptops, cell phones, and many other high drain applications. They're still used in a lot of applications because the consumer demands longer run times. It's only in e-cigs, where it is up to the user to use them within their limits, that the damn things are more likely to encounter misuse and become a photo opportunity of thermal destruction.

The bold above is where the disconnect is Funk Dracula. I don't consider 7A high drain for vaping. 10A is where that starts for me.

I also don't consider laptops, cell phones, or cameras high drain battery applications.

 

[PhatRon]

I didn't mean to start a feud, I went with a different supplier and brand all together. I was just wondering about those because it did in fact look shady to me. Thanks Baditude for the heads up.

Mods can close this thread please.

 

[kato1234]

Now I'm a little confused about the letters. My understanding was that the IM"R" referred to rechargeable and the 1865"0" meant round. Not really that important since all the batteries I use are round. Just trying to understand. Went over to the flashlight forum and just walked away shaking my head.

Kato

 

[Ryedan]

kato, best I can tell the 'R' does mean wound and the '0' also means round. It is a bit confusing. Speaking battery chemistry only, ICR is more accurately Lithium Cobalt Oxide or ICO and IMR is more accurately Lithium Manganese Oxide or LMO or Lithium Nickel Manganese Cobalt Oxide or NMC. Here's the link to that data. Battery University is a really good site.

I think I'll stick with ICR and IMR

 

[Baditude]

I don't consider 7A high drain for vaping. 10A is where that starts for me.

I also don't consider laptops, cell phones, or cameras high drain battery applications.

I agree with this. I don't consider a battery high drain unless it says so on the battery or product description, and has a 10 amp minimum (for 18650).

That's why I alert people using the Panasonic/Orbtronic NCR18650A 3100 mAh and NCR18650B 3400 mAh batteries that they are not high drain, and only have a 6.8 amp limit. Regulated mods using pulse currents (Pulse Width Modulation) can easily reach 10 amp drain when doing higher voltage. This why manufacturers of regulated mods and of the Kick recommend using high drain batteries.
Technical - Why High Drain?

Saying ICR batteries are high drain is incorrect information. High capacity (mah) does not mean high drain.