Battery question

[MikeE87]

With all this talk of battery safety and explosions, I wanted to ask a few questions. How can you tell if your battery is gonna explode? Can it just explode in an instant without warning or does it have to get really hot first and start venting. Has there ever been a case where a kid was smoking a vape and the battery explosion messed up his face? The pictures I've seen of exploding batteries mainly deal with people leaving their batteries in chargers and the charger not having an auto shutoff. ???? I also wanted to ask you guys if brass posts are really dangerous. I used to have this helios rda clone that I bought from the P.I. Later I read that brass posts were dangerous because of the lead content. I then decided to sand the post with sand paper; and it revealed that they were in fact brass posts. I still have the rda. I haven't used it, but should I just thrash it? Thanks, just curious

 

[DetraMental]

I do know that the battery WILL get very warm very fast when it goes into thermal runaway, a.k.a. gonna blow. I've only heard rumors about batteries blowing up in peoples faces, no facts. You are correct that most exploding batteries were in chargers; most, if not all, were using the WRONG charger at the time the battery blew. I'm not sure about the brass or lead and will be interested to hear from some one with more knowledge than myself about that.

 

[Cloud Junky]

A battery will not explode in your face unless you are running a very low resistance that the battery cannot handle, from that it will get like cup of coffee hot and you will throw it to the ground before you have the chance to hurt yourself. I had batteries vent on me before and it is not that bad, it just stinks and continues to get hot until either it wants to explode or discharge. I toss them in a tin bucket full of salt water and pop a new battery in my mod and vape on.

As an adult the lead content in the brass from brass posts are no more harmful than tap water. The Octopus RDA is a brass posted device and I never had any issues. I guess its fine to use it for a while until the next big thing comes up.

 

[Rickajho]

Big pile of "it depends":

ICR chemistry batteries are the type that can explode and go off like a bomb in a split second. You may not get any warning at all that something is wrong. Just about any battery with the word "Fire" in the brand name is an ICR chemistry battery. They also show up a lot, unbranded, in kits from FastTech. Those are the type of batteries involved in the "messed up face" incidents.

IMR chemistry batteries are more stress tolerant, but they can still vent. They don't go off with the instantaneous explosive force of ICR batteries. You may get more of a warning from the battery heating up first, but you can't count on that either.

For any type, not selecting a battery that can meet your demands is asking for a problem. If you need a battery that can deliver 15 amps, and you selecting a low budget battery that can only deliver 5 amps - can't blame the battery for that one.

There are a lot of crap chargers out there that do not function correctly. A properly designed and functioning charger does not do things that can cause a battery to explode, like overcharge beyond 4.2 volts or continue to apply current to a fully charged battery. Stressing batteries on the other end of things can contribute to charger explosions - like over discharging batteries or hard shorting them. But combining bad usage practices with a badly designed or functioning charger is asking for a problem to happen.

 

[FlamingoTutu]

I'll bite; how do you over discharge or hard short them?

 

[MikeE87]

Big pile of "it depends":

ICR chemistry batteries are the type that can explode and go off like a bomb in a split second. You may not get any warning at all that something is wrong. Just about any battery with the word "Fire" in the brand name is an ICR chemistry battery. They also show up a lot, unbranded, in kits from FastTech. Those are the type of batteries involved in the "messed up face" incidents.

IMR chemistry batteries are more stress tolerant, but they can still vent. They don't go off with the instantaneous explosive force of ICR batteries. You may get more of a warning from the battery heating up first, but you can't count on that either.

For any type, not selecting a battery that can meet your demands is asking for a problem. If you need a battery that can deliver 15 amps, and you selecting a low budget battery that can only deliver 5 amps - can't blame the battery for that one.

There are a lot of crap chargers out there that do not function correctly. A properly designed and functioning charger does not do things that can cause a battery to explode, like overcharge beyond 4.2 volts or continue to apply current to a fully charged battery. Stressing batteries on the other end of things can contribute to charger explosions - like over discharging batteries or hard shorting them. But combining bad usage practices with a badly designed or functioning charger is asking for a problem to happen.

What are Li-on batteries. I got the green Sony 18650s 30 amp from Fast Tech. Is that the same as an IMR. If not, is it safer or more dangerous? thanks dude

 

[ScottP]

If you hear a "tic tic tic" sound, throw it.

 

[Rickajho]

I'll bite; how do you over discharge or hard short them?

ICR chemistry batteries - discharge them below 3.2 volts.

Most IMR chemistry batteries - discharge them below 2.5 volts.

An occasional discharge below recommended levels won't create an instant problem. But chronic discharging below safe levels breaks down the chemical composition of a battery - which results in incidents while charging.

Hard shorts? You know - people not owning a meter and not testing the resistance of coil builds. Zero ohms is a really bad thing to expose a battery to, for reasons similar to why over discharging is bad - it causes bad things to happen to battery chemistry. (Except a lot faster.) A battery or a mod getting hot is not how you test a coil build for a hard short.

 

[FlamingoTutu]

ICR chemistry batteries - discharge them below 3.2 volts.

Most IMR chemistry batteries - discharge them below 2.5 volts.

An occasional discharge below recommended levels won't create an instant problem. But chronic discharging below safe levels breaks down the chemical composition of a battery - which results in incidents while charging.

Hard shorts? You know - people not owning a meter and not testing the resistance of coil builds. Zero ohms is a really bad thing to expose a battery to, for reasons similar to why over discharging is bad - it causes bad things to happen to battery chemistry. (Except a lot faster.) A battery or a mod getting hot is not how you test a coil build for a hard short.

Rickajho, Thank you I was kind of in the ballpark with my guesses on that but wouldn't want to have to explain it to someone.

 

[Choc_Addic]

I'll bite; how do you over discharge or hard short them?

I'll take your challenge.


put your battery and some change and some keys in your pocket and go for a walk.

Let us know how you fared.

Cheers

 

[ImThatGuy]

^uh...he was joking about that one... DON'T DO IT!!!

Over discharge - using the battery until it's past it's safe voltage (<2.5v)
Hard short - with any topper that has a short in its build or like Choc_Addic's example of making a complete circuit from + to - then boom! (jk on the boom...but it can happen)

 

[MikeE87]

Any more opinions about brass posts? Safe to use. I set my coils to about .6 ohms on my RDA.

 

[Rickajho]

What are Li-on batteries. I got the green Sony 18650s 30 amp from Fast Tech. Is that the same as an IMR. If not, is it safer or more dangerous? thanks dude

All this class of batteries get lumped together as LIthium-iON batteries. But there are at least a dozen different chemical combination's used to create them. More info here.:

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/blogs/baditude/4848-9-battery-basics-mods-imr-protected-icr.html
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/blogs/baditude/5163-12-deeper-understanding-mod-batteries-part-i.html
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/blogs/baditude/5162-11-deeper-understanding-mod-batteries-part-ii.html

Can you throw us a link to the battery on FT? Someone may know if it's a genuine Sony battery or a fake. Beyond that we need to see the model number for this Sony. Also, check 'Bad's battery basics blog - the first link - for for info about your Sony.

 

[Rickajho]

I'll take your challenge.


put your battery and some change and some keys in your pocket and go for a walk.

Let us know how you fared.

Cheers

You lol

 

[MikeE87]

Thanks dude, Here is the link for the Sony 18650 batteries on Fast Tech $10.19 Sony US18650VTC3 18650 1600mAh 3.7V Rechargeable Li-ion Batteries (2-Pack) 2-pack - 30A discharge at FastTech - Worldwide Free Shipping

All this class of batteries get lumped together as LIthium-iON batteries. But there are at least a dozen different chemical combination's used to create them. More info here.:

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/blogs/baditude/4848-9-battery-basics-mods-imr-protected-icr.html
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/blogs/baditude/5163-12-deeper-understanding-mod-batteries-part-i.html
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/blogs/baditude/5162-11-deeper-understanding-mod-batteries-part-ii.html

Can you throw us a link to the battery on FT? Someone may know if it's a genuine Sony battery or a fake. Beyond that we need to see the model number for this Sony. Also, check 'Bad's battery basics blog - the fist link - for for info about your Sony.

 

[ImThatGuy]

Looks legit to me. The VTC3 are safe chemistry/hybrid. The VTC4 and VTC5 are IMR.

But...aren't there shipping delays when it comes to ordering batteries internationally?

 

[ImThatGuy]

Any more opinions about brass posts? Safe to use. I set my coils to about .6 ohms on my RDA.

Brass posts are good connections, but silver is better.

 

[FlamingoTutu]

I'll take your challenge.


put your battery and some change and some keys in your pocket and go for a walk.

Let us know how you fared.

Cheers

Seems like someone does that about every other month on here. "All of a sudden my leg started getting really hot!"

ETA Come to think of it, at least one smoking purse too.

 

[SleeZy]

Found this in another post here on ECF.


And i personally wouldn't use brass posts.
However i'm a "better safe than sorry" type of a guy.

 

[ImThatGuy]

What posts would you use?

Great video though.