Battery Voltages -- Surprise!
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A circuit designed to properly charge li-ion batteries.
Scott, I don't care to turn this into a charging thread, but I need to get my point across as it seems to be flying over some peoples head.
There are two different type of batteries out there......
Some batteries like the KR808-Dx/501/M40x do not have circuitry built into the batteries to monitor/regulate the charging process. These batteries require an external circuit to properly charge the battery.
Now, there is another type of battery out there. Batteries such as the 510 disposable and a variety of other generic super mini's do not require an external circuit for charging. They can be charged by connecting any 5V power source.
These batteries have some sort of charging circuit internal to the battery. This might be as simple as an over-voltage cutoff, monitored by the same uController that does the cut-off, under-voltage, LED control, etc.
The last thing you want to do is connect a battery in the first group mentioned above to a "charger" designed for the second group.
Here is a picture of a 510 disposable "charger"......
Do you see any electronics in there? Would you even know what to look for if there was?
There isn't any electronics in there because it's not a charger, it just a USB to female 510 connector.
So what does the charging then? Oh that's right, you believe in magic.
Do you see any electronics in there? Would you even know what to look for if there was?
There isn't any electronics in there because it's not a charger, it just a USB to female 510 connector.
So what does the charging then? Oh that's right, you believe in magic.
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The way I read it, Scottbee never said what you apparently think he said. In fact, from what I understood, he's in agreement with everything you said except this:
"KR808-Dx batteries do not have any internal charge circuitry, so hooking them up to a 5V supply (510 charger) will destroy the battery."
Which *is* wrong, since a 510 charger isn't just a 5v supply (The first part about the Kr8 is right) - and you acknowledged this in an edit, which he probably didn't see because he responded to another poster's quote which didn't include your edit. So from my view, the whole thing is just a misunderstanding.
P.S. (Edit) Wishing to prevent any further misunderstanding, if you remove "(510 charger)" from the quote above, the statement is correct and I *think* everyone is in agreement with that. Note: 510 charger != disposable 510 charger - and I'm sure everyone agrees with that.
"KR808-Dx batteries do not have any internal charge circuitry, so hooking them up to a 5V supply (510 charger) will destroy the battery."
Which *is* wrong, since a 510 charger isn't just a 5v supply (The first part about the Kr8 is right) - and you acknowledged this in an edit, which he probably didn't see because he responded to another poster's quote which didn't include your edit. So from my view, the whole thing is just a misunderstanding.
P.S. (Edit) Wishing to prevent any further misunderstanding, if you remove "(510 charger)" from the quote above, the statement is correct and I *think* everyone is in agreement with that. Note: 510 charger != disposable 510 charger - and I'm sure everyone agrees with that.
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Where is the picture of a STANDARD 510 charger, disassembled to show us no circuitry to make it safe for charging batteries that dont have the electronics built in?
No one is arguing that the cheap-disposable-chargers that come with disposable 510 batteries are SAFE to charge other batteries without built in protection.
The point being made is, that the standard chargers that come with non-knockoff 510's, are smart, ie have the protection built into them. So in that case it is double redundancy, since the 510 batteries also have the protection built in. They can be used to charge batteries without the protection built in.
Summary: Don't charge other batteries on knock-off chargers that aren't built for that purpose.
Re-rail: Great test Scottbee, makes me more eager to build a solid 3.7 mod for my 510s
No one is arguing that the cheap-disposable-chargers that come with disposable 510 batteries are SAFE to charge other batteries without built in protection.
The point being made is, that the standard chargers that come with non-knockoff 510's, are smart, ie have the protection built into them. So in that case it is double redundancy, since the 510 batteries also have the protection built in. They can be used to charge batteries without the protection built in.
Summary: Don't charge other batteries on knock-off chargers that aren't built for that purpose.
Re-rail: Great test Scottbee, makes me more eager to build a solid 3.7 mod for my 510s
Very nice test! I'm a bit disappointed that my new Tornado(ego) isn't giving me the best performance 
Very nice test! I'm a bit disappointed that my new Tornado(ego) isn't giving me the best performance
I wouldn't be.
The "cone" on the eGo/Tornado is more than just an aesthetic device. It changes the "draw" on the unit, preheats the incoming air, and bumps up the overall atty temperature a bit. All of those contribute to the "vaping experience".
Don't get me wrong though.. I will certainly be trying an eGo/Tornado at a true 3.7V just to see what it is like.
I didn't even consider that, since the enclosed air around the cone is being heated by what would normally be warming our finger as the atty gets hotter?
Yup. And generally speaking, you will notice a difference with the eGo/Tornado if you run it with the cone off vs. on. Especially if you are in the habit of doing a "primer puff" or two.
Scottbee,
Just wondering: Have you reached a conclusion about voltage supplied and atty performance/longevity? I'm not having great luck with my 901 attys using standard auto batteries. I'm going to pick up some KR batteries on my next HG order along with an adapter. My hope is that supplying something closer to a constant 3.7v will keep my attys happier longer. I've got a bunch that I've cleaned, but they only perform to satisfaction when I use them in my Little Chuck or Bartleby. Likewise when using standard auto batteries my new attys seem to bog down within a few days. I love my Bart but I still like the auto batts for that "real cigarette" feel.
Just wondering: Have you reached a conclusion about voltage supplied and atty performance/longevity? I'm not having great luck with my 901 attys using standard auto batteries. I'm going to pick up some KR batteries on my next HG order along with an adapter. My hope is that supplying something closer to a constant 3.7v will keep my attys happier longer. I've got a bunch that I've cleaned, but they only perform to satisfaction when I use them in my Little Chuck or Bartleby. Likewise when using standard auto batteries my new attys seem to bog down within a few days. I love my Bart but I still like the auto batts for that "real cigarette" feel.
It has been my experience that cartomizers and 510 atties certainly perform "different" with the additional .6V or so. I prefer it and hope to get all of my devices to a "true" 3.7V operation.
Others may find that the additional voltage, especially on the 510, hurts the flavor of their more "delicate" liquids.
I run VG juice almost exclusively. I think/feel that the additional voltage also helps to keep my atty coils from "gunking up", require less frequent cleaning and dry burns.
But hey... opinions vary.
Others may find that the additional voltage, especially on the 510, hurts the flavor of their more "delicate" liquids.
I run VG juice almost exclusively. I think/feel that the additional voltage also helps to keep my atty coils from "gunking up", require less frequent cleaning and dry burns.
But hey... opinions vary.
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Most definitely a case of de gustibus non est disputandum. I like my 510s on 3.1 better than on 3.7. Others are looking for the 7.2v option. Each their own.
Just ordered some batts from HG so I'll know for myself in a week or so. I even ordered a few of the 380mAh monsters but I have a feeling they're going to be too long for public use (well, unless I conceal it in a Slim-Jim wrapper).
Put a right-angle mouthpiece on it and tell everybody that it's a busted flute....
If it uses a 3.7V battery and a mechanical switch.. then it is a pretty good guess/assumption that it will deliver a true 3.7V to the atty (unless there is an intentional or parasitic resistor in the circuit). The BB folks can tell you for sure, I don't have one.
An update.
As has been suspected, the ~.6V drop in the Joye products is built right into the FET switch circuit. It is not due to internal resistance in the battery itself.
I have pulled apart one of my Mega batteries and am doing a circuit analysis. Although the analysis isn't anywhere near complete, what I can tell you is this:
With a 2.5Ω load applied and the switch energized, the measured voltage right at the battery is approximately 4V (freshly charged). This is also the FET source voltage.
The drain voltage is in the 3.1V range (as previously noted) and this is the output voltage of the complete package.
The gate voltage is approximately .8V.
I haven't gotten far enough to figure out where the gate voltage is sourced from...... but I will!
As has been suspected, the ~.6V drop in the Joye products is built right into the FET switch circuit. It is not due to internal resistance in the battery itself.
I have pulled apart one of my Mega batteries and am doing a circuit analysis. Although the analysis isn't anywhere near complete, what I can tell you is this:
With a 2.5Ω load applied and the switch energized, the measured voltage right at the battery is approximately 4V (freshly charged). This is also the FET source voltage.
The drain voltage is in the 3.1V range (as previously noted) and this is the output voltage of the complete package.
The gate voltage is approximately .8V.
I haven't gotten far enough to figure out where the gate voltage is sourced from...... but I will!
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