Best starter kit available.

[brownbob06]

I'm going to try to keep it short and sweet because I have a tendency to ramble on. As you may have guessed I have decided to try my hand at mixing my own flavors.

I have found a few "starter kits" the most appealing of which is from nudenicotine.com. For $30 I will have everything to make about 250 ml worth of liquid. I tried piecing it all together myself and it's cheaper to do the kit. Pricing things together myself I am at $29 before I even pick 3 flavors or any bottles.

I was just wondering if there were any other sites with starter kits that may be nicer or a site that may be more reasonable with their shipping rates. I got on a few different sites like bullcityvapor but unless I'm buying a kit I tend to go a little crazy and end up shooting just for free shipping. I don't think it's wise for me to dump $70 into something I haven't tried yet, that's why I'm looking for some help I suppose.

FWIW I'm planning on making mixes of at least 70VG/30PG because high PG nics give me headaches. Should I just pick up a few 1, 5, and 10 ml syringes, a couple blunt tip needles, a few basic flavors, some PG, some VG, and some nicotine and call it good?

Sorry if this has been asked tons of times, just looking to get started for a relatively low price I suppose.

 

[dannyv45]

Kits are good if your very unsure what you need but that would mean your very unsure how to mix. There can be a lot that you may not need and thus be wasting money and what is contained in the kit that you do need is about the poorest quality you can find. The best thing is to research and know what you need and what it's used for and be sure you know exactly whats involved to do basic mixing.

A statement you made is right on target for the most part

"Should I just pick up a few 1, 5, and 10 ml syringes, a couple blunt tip needles, a few basic flavors, some PG, some VG, and some nicotine and call it good?"

Add some bottles and your set but finding small empty bottles around the house is fine to. Just clean them out well. Your target should be to spend as little as possible until you know for sure DYI is for you. If you find it is for you then go out and splurge.

Read my blog on supplies and safety for the first time DYI'er. Then read the rest of my blogs on mixing.

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...ow-far-supplies-safety-first-time-juicer.html

Then

Read the rest of my blogs before getting started

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/blogs/dannyv45/

then read hoosier's blogs.

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/blogs/hoosier/

then read the stickies at the top of the page.

this will explain a lot of the how's and why's.

 

[jimstratus]

Danny has already given you great advice so I got nothing to add there. One supplier you might want to check is One Stop DIY Shop I didn't order their kit since I had already pieced together many different supplies from many various places, but their CS has been absolutely outstanding.

 

[Boletus]

Most here feel that kits are a bit wasteful, in that you may never even use parts of the kit. But on the other hand, $30 for 250 ml of juice is still cheaper than premade. Personally, I got by for my first few mixes with nothing but 120 ml nic base 70/30 VG/PG, 250 ml VG, one 3 ml syringe, some reused bottles from premade juice, and a couple of flavors. I was shooting for 90VG 10PG and nic concentration at 33 % of my base strength. SO it was just 1 part nic base to two parts VG, and flavoring at the lowest recommended % (I did not worry about the % VG/PG change caused by the flavoring, and the nic was a couple of mg lower than 33%, but so what). That way I did not need to buy any PG at all. But I am a miser, so shaved off every penny I could.

Regarding PG, if you react badly do it, you do not need it at all; you can get your base in 100% VG and some straight VG for dilution, and you can pick up a gallon of distilled water at a grocery store for a buck or two and use that to thin the VG a bit.

Some reading will go a long way to ensuring your safety and success. Danny's blog is a great place to start, and I recommend these posts:
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/announcements-news/144783-warning-e-liquid-diy-safety.html
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/diy-e-liquid/127760-diy-warning-please-read.html
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/diy-e-liquid/277267-purity-pg-vg-peg-short-version.html

And Hoosier's blog is also helpful too:
E-Cigarette Forum - Hoosier - Blogs

Unless you are a chemist (and maybe even if you are) one of the calculator applications will be extremely useful. But you should download one and play with it a bit to figure out how to use it before you dive in. When you get ready to make a mix, post the recipe here and one or more of us will double check it.

 

[Alien Traveler]

I am not in developing new flavors routine, so I can be a bit sloppy and not precise. So, for liquid measurements I use syringe
Pack of 10 x 10 ml Industrial Syringes with 15G x 1-1/2" Blunt Tip Fill Needle: Science Lab Needles: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific

Flavors I mostly measure by drops with
Plastic Transfer Pipettes 3ml, Gradulated, Pack of 100: Science Lab Transfer Pipettes: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific

Sometimes I even use syringe for flavors:
Syringe 1cc Luer Slip Tip Sterile (Pack of 10): Science Lab Syringes: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific

For mixing and more or less temporary storage of bases - small jars (mustard, etc.).
That’s it. Very minimalistic set, but I am satisfied, at least for now. When (and if) I will need something else, I'll buy it.

 

[mguidry629]

I got the $50 kit from nude nicotine to experiment with and I'm happy with it. I've made 4 batches of juice 5ml each and they're all "vapable" but nothing I'm in love with. Now, all I need are more flavors and more bottles to continue experimenting and hopefully I'll come up with a few recipes for I can vape all day and quit buying pre-made.

 

[brownbob06]

As far as going pure VG, i was under the impression that VG was a poor carrier of flavor so some PG is good for the sake of flavor, but if Distilled water instead of PG will do the job that's great.

I've also been saving my old bottles for a while for the sake of not having to buy new ones when I do start mixing. I was, however, planning on buying something like a 60 ml bottle so i could mix up 30 ml batches at a time and have plenty of room to shake and induce air to my mixture. I would also like to get a 20g blunt tip needle because another user stated it will fit inside of the tips of drip type bottles like my 15 ml bottles have.

The reason i was leaning towards the kit is because once i started piecing it together it got to a point where it was $1 less than piecing it together BEFORE I added the ingredients to my pieced together list.

The conclusion on these forums seems to be that ordering from different vendors is the way to go. I'll start sourcing things from different vendors and post back to make sure my list is complete.

I've read enough to i feel i can comfortably mix my own solution (with a calculator of course,) but i may also know only enough to screw something up. Won't know until i try though lol.

And I'm confident I know what to order, i just worry with things like this that I'm going to forget that one simple thing that will not allow me to begin mixing.

I should also note that I already have gloves to use during mixing because i would like to get the 100mg/ml concentration of nicotine because i feel like anything lower is a waste of money and anything higher is too much of an unnecessary hazard.

I'm more than open to suggestions!
(I told you i tend to ramble :\)

 

[dannyv45]

Best to use 10ml bottles to start out with when making test samples. Anything more is a waste of material and money. Once you have your bearings then bigger batches are fine. 30ml size are a good size to make for your final vapes but putting them in 60 ml bottles just for the sake of shaking is not wise. Excess shaking will introduce air. Air causes NIC to ozidize quickly. A controlled oxidation of NIC is needed and not rapid ozidation for a mix to mature. That may cause an undesired harshness to the mix. Once a mix is blended there is no need for constant shaking.

For controlled ozidation over time steeping is required. So it would be advantagious to read my blogs as mentioned earlier so you understand this as well as other mixing requirements.

 

[brownbob06]

Gotcha. Seems as though there is just as much misinformation out there as there is information because one of the techniques I read about was to shake to introduce air bubbles, let sit with cap off till air bubbles are gone, repeat a few times, then set the bottle in a dark place for about 24 hours and that's it.

So the 60 ml to add air is actually exactly what i was going for, but apparently i shouldn't be doing that at all lol.

I did read, also, that some flavors are harsh if you start vaping right away but the harshness mutes after time.

I'll definitely do some more reading before supplies arrive, but starting off I will be wanting to do single flavor mixes for the sake of simplicity, then try to clone simply strawberry with mint, then perhaps more complex flavors, but I'm getting ahead of myself already :\

 

[dannyv45]

There is a lot of contridiction here. And I can only give my opinion on what I know works from my own research and my own trial and error. I've been doing this a while now and have determined for me anyway what works and what don't. You to will find what works and what don't with many hours of expermentation and all I can do is pass on some of my wisdom and hope it helps others.

 

[brownbob06]

^^^^ Awesome. That's kind of why I want to get started trying. I can read all the articles and watch all the videos I want, but I won't be learning much until I get my hands dirty, screw up a few batches, and learn from my mistakes.

Don't mistake that for me saying I won't continue to do research. Plenty of others have made mistakes i can learn from before even starting, so I'll definitely be doing a lot of reading before i get any supplies.

 

[Boletus]

Sounds like you are off to a good start. PG accepts flavors more easily than VG, but it is not necessary. Steeping time is most affected, but that can be accelerated with controlled heat (Danny's blog will tell you everything you need to know about that). With that in mind, a few small glass bottles/jars might be useful.

I did not realize it at first, but the nozzles of most plastic drip tip bottles do come off. If you can get your thumbnail in the neck of the bottle, you can pop the nozzle off. Then you can just push it back on when full. I have bottles I have done this with many times, and they still work fine.

The breathing/venting can be helpful for some flavors, but counterproductive for others. You'll figure that out as you go.

Keep reading this subforum and post questions as the pop up; there is no better resource anywhere.

Don't fret too much about spending an extra buck or two on your first order. If you stick with DIY, your juice will cost you so much less than premade that you will come out ahead very quickly.

As long as you have nic base, VG and/or PG for dilution (Possibly DW if you will use it), and something to measure with (e.g. a syringe), you have everything you need to get started. Flavors are actually optional, and I always recommend making your first mix a batch of unflavored and trying it. You might like it a lot more than some premade, and knowing what it tastes likes helps later when you are tweaking flavors. Also, it is possible to get nic base, VG, or PG that has an off taste (although if you use vendors recommended here, it is highly unlikely), and if that does happen and you don't know what your unflavored tastes like, you will be blaming your mixing skills or flavors and running around in circles trying to find the problem. Additionally, if you are on an extremely tight budget, unflavored can be made for less than $0.02/ml.

When you put together your first recipe, post it here before the actual mixing, and one or more of us will double check it for you.

Finally, as Danny said, there are as many ways to do things as there are members of ECF, so when you get conflicting opinions/advice, look into it and then decide for yourself.

 

[WarBlaze]

Im so very excited for you to begin mixing
i started out with 66$ spent at Wizard Labs for the free shipping and got 250ml pv 500ml vg, around 7 syringes and blunt tips, one graduated cylinder(that i dont really use yet lol),bottles not many like 15 or so, and 20 something flavors, i dont use nic so that was nice to not have to grab and my bottle sizes were 10and 30, since then ive bought 30 something more flavors and 5ml bottles and have loved the money ive spent on it its fun addicting mad crazy scientist stuff now and ive even had a few guys at work want me to make them some juice they have tried of mine.
sorry for my ramble but i put some bilbery and sweet cream with a touch of sweetener together the other day that i really enjoyed and this weekend its time to make a eggnog and pumpkin flavor to vape


LIVE LONG AND VAPE ON

 

[vbreak]

As long as you have nic base, VG and/or PG for dilution (Possibly DW if you will use it), and something to measure with (e.g. a syringe), you have everything you need to get started. Flavors are actually optional, and I always recommend making your first mix a batch of unflavored and trying it. You might like it a lot more than some premade, and knowing what it tastes likes helps later when you are tweaking flavors. Also, it is possible to get nic base, VG, or PG that has an off taste (although if you use vendors recommended here, it is highly unlikely), and if that does happen and you don't know what your unflavored tastes like, you will be blaming your mixing skills or flavors and running around in circles trying to find the problem. Additionally, if you are on an extremely tight budget, unflavored can be made for less than $0.02/ml.

I am also trying to get into DIY and am reading all I can.
I would be willing to start off with unflavored for the reason that boletus mentioned, but how would I go about mixing it.
I did purchase some VG and DW from Wal-Mart and since I vape 0 nic, do I just mix 90% VG and 10% DW?

Also wanted to ask, what you recommend to purchase for my fisrt flavors? something that would be easy to not mess up.

 

[Boletus]

I did purchase some VG and DW from Wal-Mart and since I vape 0 nic, do I just mix 90% VG and 10% DW?

Also wanted to ask, what you recommend to purchase for my fisrt flavors? something that would be easy to not mess up.

Yup, just mix 90% VG with 10% water. Depending on your PV, you might need a bit more water if it does not wick well enough. It does benefit from a little steeping, because if the water is not thoroughly blended in, you might get some popping from your atomizer. Put it in a bowl of hot tap water until it gets hot, then shake well, then repeat. Or just let it sit for a couple/few days, giving it a good shake every now and then.

If you start with single flavor mixes, the only thing you have to worry about is how much to use. Find % recommendations, and then start low and add a bit until you like it. Fruit flavors tend to need the least steeping (or none at all), so those are probably easiest.

 

[brownbob06]

First glavor recommendation would be nice as well. At least after i try with no flavor.

One of the sites I was on, Bull City I believe, had VT nic so i was wanting to try that due to great reviews on here.

 

[vbreak]

Yup, just mix 90% VG with 10% water. Depending on your PV, you might need a bit more water if it does not wick well enough. It does benefit from a little steeping, because if the water is not thoroughly blended in, you might get some popping from your atomizer. Put it in a bowl of hot tap water until it gets hot, then shake well, then repeat. Or just let it sit for a couple/few days, giving it a good shake every now and then.

If you start with single flavor mixes, the only thing you have to worry about is how much to use. Find % recommendations, and then start low and add a bit until you like it. Fruit flavors tend to need the least steeping (or none at all), so those are probably easiest.

Thanks Boletus, I will try it and post my findings.

All you people here are great help, I really appreciate it!

 

[Boletus]

First glavor recommendation would be nice as well. At least after i try with no flavor.

One of the sites I was on, Bull City I believe, had VT nic so i was wanting to try that due to great reviews on here.

If you are going to use Nude, their Blueberry Mojito is a mild but pleasant vape at 2.5-3% and does not need much if any steeping. I like their Patchouli Vanilla at 2%, but that one needs serious steeping, and the patchouli adds a bit of bite some may not like, although it does not taste at all like patchouli oil smells, thankfully. Those are the only 2 I have tried from them. But really I am an ignoramus with regard to flavors (unflavored is my ADV), so hopefully others can give you more suggestions. But really, if you are going to start with single flavor mixes, starting at low % and working your way up, it is hard to go seriously wrong with most that sound like something you would like.

What are you considering? Others may be more likely to suggest something if you give us an idea of what you might like. Fruit, tobacco, menthol, peanut butter, Tabasco, anchovy (yes, that one was a joke)...? There are so many flavors out there, it's kind of like asking which star in the sky is best, without a little narrowing down to what you might like.

 

[brownbob06]

I find that i like fruits most of the time, but i've been on skittles flavor for quite a while. I would REALLY lpve to find a flavor that is something like banana runts though lol.

Basically fruits and candies. I've tried coffe flavors, vanilla bean flavors and chocolates, but haven't really liked them. It would seem I tend to stick with sweet flavors.