Best Tool For Nano Coils- Super or Ultra!

[Ov3rDoSe]

This seems like the best place for this, but feel free to move if necessary.

Super Nano, Ultra Nano (a new term I'm coining) are amazing coils for rda's, giving huge vaper AND full flavor. Just see both of Rip Trippers videos on the subject if you need further convincing.

I've used these coils for quite some time, always 28 gauge kanthal wrapped on a paper clip. Well for those delving into 24 gauge, or just simply wanting an even smaller coil, this just won't cut it. You may say a 1/32" drill bit is okay, but that's still enormous compared to what I'm going to show you.

On Amazon (US), you can search this-
"Dispensing Needle Assortment 60 Pcs 14ga.-30ga." (Im unsure about posting outside links here)

What you get is a full assortment of blunt tip needles, 1/2" in length, 5 of each size including and between those listed above. If a Super Nano is wrapped around a 20ga needle, I'm calling anything wrapped on something smaller an Ultra Nano. I've successfully wrapped a 28 gauge coil on a 30ga needle. This is insanity. They glow like the sun the very instant you hit the fire button. With 24 gauge kanthal, my tests seem to show that a 23 or 25 gauge needle is as small as you can go- any smaller and the needle just isn't firm enough.

Hope this helps any Nano Coil nuts out there. I will post pictures sometime tonight when I have get home. Until then, everyone go order this $15 lifetime supply of Nano and Micro coil wrapping tools!

As far as I can tell, shipping is only available to the U.S from this supplier for now.

 

[Mezrein]

Got some pics? What ohm you getting out of these?


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[trouble1000]

That's exactly what I use for my nano coils, various sizes of blunt tip needles. I saw Rip use a proper sharp needle in one of his vids, bit too risky for me that one

Good find on the Amazon site though. I'll have to see if I can find something similar on the UK site.

I never really struggle wrapping the coil, but getting the cotton through seems to take me twice as long as the coil build.

 

[boborone]

That's exactly what I use for my nano coils, various sizes of blunt tip needles. I saw Rip use a proper sharp needle in one of his vids, bit too risky for me that one

Good find on the Amazon site though. I'll have to see if I can find something similar on the UK site.

I never really struggle wrapping the coil, but getting the cotton through seems to take me twice as long as the coil build.

Nano coils sit on a bed/cloud of cotton. Its not wicked through it.

 

[trouble1000]

Nano coils sit on a bed/cloud of cotton. Its not wicked through it.

Yeah I can see that. I was talking about the process of getting the cotton into place, not necessarily getting the cotton through a coil My excuse is it's nearly 11pm here in the UK, so nearly bed time

 

[kgs-wy]

Like the terminology there, Ov3rDoSe... I think a lot of people tend to add their own monikers until it catches on as either a given or a meme, lol... Such as your example of Rip Trippers calling what you've termed the ultranano coil as a supernano coil... I prefer ultranano to Rip's supernano or my own micronano or piconano, so I guess ya came up with a good one!

Anyway, I believe Mezrein asked for some pics?

For a bit of background, I lucked out and found a hand powered drill kit for re-boring oxy-acetylene tips that've been fouled beyond a tip rasp's ability to clean, which contains a variety of drill bits in even numbers from #52 to #74. The bit I used is a #74, which is literally 0.0003" (yes, the ten-thousandths of an inch!) larger than 23 AWG (American Wire Gauge for those that don't know.). Picture one is how I did the coil, trapping the 28 ga. between two of the jaws just above the bit, with about 1" slid further into the hand drill's chuck. It's very challenging if ya don't have a magnifier (I picked up a cheap jeweler's and hobbyist's head strap magnifier for this purpose), but patience, great care and persistence is the key.

The second pic is the ultranano coil after wrapping, almost ready for install; I was shooting for close to a 1Ω dual coil (ended up with 1.1Ω), which means 30.5 wraps at this size level using 28 ga. Kanthal A-1 to get 2Ω. I might've gotten closer to Since this was 33.5 wraps, I had to remove 3 wraps and re-tighten the coil slightly. No big deal, but a li'l time consuming at this size level due to the potential fragility of the drill bit. Also, you can burn and squeeze these to improve coil tightness, but you have to be very, very gentle when you do so!

And here's the final product, stuffed snugly into an Igo T on a nice cotton cloud saturated with some nicely steeped, 5 Pawns Castle Long in 12mg strength.

On my ZNA, I experimented from 18.5W and 21W, found a happy medium at about 20.5. Crisp, intense flavor, great vapor and a solid throat hit. Worth the time invested. Next experiment I'm going to do is putting a pair of these into a full size Russian RBA... Wish me luck! 'Cause I think I'm gonna need it...

And on that note, keep on vaping, everyone!

-Laters...!
kgs-wy

 

[screwball]

That thing is crazy. must light up a room when it glows.

 

[Froth]

For a bit of background, I lucked out and found a hand powered drill kit for re-boring oxy-acetylene tips that've been fouled beyond a tip rasp's ability to clean, which contains a variety of drill bits in even numbers from #52 to #74. The bit I used is a #74, which is literally 0.0003" (yes, the ten-thousandths of an inch!)

I'm sorry, but .0003 isn't correct for a #74. #74 in micro drill bits is .0225" which is roughly .5mm - If the bit you were using was really .0003" then you wouldn't even see it in your photograph because .0003" is .007mm, what you have pictured next to 23ga wire is no where close to .007mm.

I use micro drill bits, sized 80 to 61 for nano and super nano coils, the sizes 80 to 61 range from a totally ridiculous .0135"(.34mm) to a more respectable .039"(1mm). I find them to be more durable than any needle I've used, plus I already had them.

 

[kgs-wy]

I'm sorry, but .0003 isn't correct for a #74. #74 in micro drill bits is .0225" which is roughly .5mm - If the bit you were using was really .0003" then you wouldn't even see it in your photograph because .0003" is .007mm, what you have pictured next to 23ga wire is no where close to .007mm.

I think you misunderstood what I was saying. To quote myself (emphasis added):

The bit I used is a #74, which is literally 0.0003" (yes, the ten-thousandths of an inch!) larger than 23 AWG

As an aside, according to the chart I looked up online, a #74 drill bit is, optimally, 0.0228" (0.579mm) in diameter. This is where I came up with the #74 being 0.0003" larger than 23 AWG, which is, optimally, 0.0225" (0.5715mm) in diameter. Sorry for any confusion!

That said, I wholeheartedly agree with ya that micro drill bits are much better than small gauge needles. Even if you were to fill a needle with epoxy to strengthen them, they'd still be quite a lot more fragile than a solid drill bit!

Anyway, keep on vaping, everyone!

-Laters...!
kgs-wy

 

[Froth]

All good! yeah I totally missed the way that was phrased and made myself look like a bit of a goon in the process! Haha, no harm no foul though, I get what you're saying now.

Out of morbid curiosity, what size is the #52 micro drill you have? Mine only go up to #60 in the larger sizes. For what it's worth, I can't even wrap on anything lower than a #76(.020") without fear of snapping one of the bits, couldn't imagine using the #80!

 

[kgs-wy]

Well, I have a technique that's a bit of a pain to get used to, but works. I lock up the bit and wire as mentioned, then, moving in 'reverse' in relation to the drill's cutting edges, I support the bit with my middle and rings fingers, while squeezing the wire between my thumb and the forefinger and middle finger's first knuckles. just a little ahead of the coil. Then I very carefully wrap my first coil, usually quite a bit 'loose'... When I get to the 'true' starting point, I hold moderate tension with my thumb and forefinger as I twist the hand drill. The spacing between the leading section of the coil and my supporting fingers tends to be less than 1/4", and I have rather large hands, so your mileage may vary. The biggest problem I've had is getting my fingers all in the right alignment and the potential for hand cramps from holding the wire.

My #52 is 0.0635", just a li'l bit larger than 1/16".

Keep on vaping, everyone!

-Laters...!
kgs-wy

 

[SLIPPY_EEL]

When I first started out doing nano's & super's I found a pack of assorted(sized) safety pins worked really well, if you do bend em while wrapping to slow then it's no big deal, just grab another one & go again. Plus you have the loop on the pin that is good for trapping the wire and either hold the pin between your fingers at the loop or you can hold with pliers.


I also have a set of four pin vices that like kgs-wy i do most of my work on now..


this is rene41(27g) wrapped on 1/2mm, this stuff is really hard to get right, it just doesn't bend as easy as kanthal etc..



I've also used a small G-clamp to hold pin's & also holding wire in locking forcep's and putting a drillbit or pin in the Groin area is the only way i can describe it gives a tight wrap.

 

[Cman1337]

Ive used 24 gauge kanthal 6 wraps it puts me at 0.24 ohms. Ive always seen everyone wick the cotton through the coil and tuck the rest under the coil. Everyone I know does it this way. What is the benefit of putting the coil ontop of the cotton and not wicking it through the coil?

 

[kgs-wy]

First off, SLIPPY_EEL, nice coils, dude!

What is the benefit of putting the coil ontop of the cotton and not wicking it through the coil?

Sorry for the wall o' text, but bear with me 'cause I think (hope?) this all applies to your question, lol. Your particular question is one of the longer standing debates I've noticed in my time researching and vaping (only since Aug. 3, '13 for vaping, but researching since mid-June of '13)... From my research and personal experience, it depends on a lot of factors, including size of coil, wicking ability of a given wick material, etc.

For larger coils, especially microcoils or similarly tightly wound coils (ala the so-called macrocoils), wicking tends to be slightly more efficient internally, as the wick is touching a majority of the entire inner surface area of the coil. Due to the incredibly small particulate size of vaporized e-liquid (averaging 0.05 microns in size, plus or minus 0.02 microns), the vapor can easily force its way through the gaps offered in even a tight microcoil. In addition, many people lay cotton around the outer perimeter of the coil (up to about 1/3 to 1/2 of the diameter of the coil proper) to increase vapor production further.

In my opinion (based on research, personal experience and some educated guessing), microcoils stop being microcoils and become nanocoils at about a #56 size drill bit (which is 3/64" or 1.181mm in diameter), because not only are they harder to wick without misshaping the coils below that size, the very nature of the coil -- the internal diameter and the corrugated surface a coil presents -- starts to choke liquid flow. When you get down to nanocoils and ultra-nanocoils (in my opinion, anything smaller than a #68 drill bit, which is 1/32" or 0.79mm in diameter), vaping efficiency tends to increase by allowing the coil to "rest" on a cotton cloud (or an overwrap leaving only one end of the coil visible, such as that used in nano dragon coils). The reason for this is is that nano-coils, while often using less length of wire, and while having a similar or smaller surface area, tend to be longer. This also results in the heat being 'spread out' a bit, resulting more efficient vaporization. As well, mostly due to capillary action, you get external expanse of the coil at least coated, if not outright saturated, with e-liquid, as well as the internal expanse.

As an example, here's a closer look at my earlier pictures:

This is a small section from the full size of #2 (the nearly finished coil), where the bare wire can be seen all the way to where the wires touch, even in the tightest coils.

Yet, in #3 (the mounted coils), you can clearly see e-liquid in between each coil. For reference, I did not saturate the coils proper before this pic, just the cotton, and let gravity wicking do the rest.

I know it's kinda hard to tell thanks to the extreme cropping or with the earlier pic, but the coils are actually sitting down such that just over half of their outer diameter is under the level of the cotton. After vaping 'til it was just starting to give me dry hits, I took a look at my coils (sorry I didn't think to take any pics of it... ) and the coils themselves were as basically dry as the cotton itself.

Anyway, I hope that answers your questions, Cman1337, and that my pics illustrate what I was gettin' at. And, please, if anyone has more information to ad, or corrections, feel free to come on out and share! I'm always happy to either expand my knowledge or get into a good spirited, but friendly, of course, debate on things!

At any rate, keep on vaping, everyone!

-Laters...!
kgs-wy

 

[Mezrein]

Lol Jesus Christ those wires are epic in length. I'd love to have a go at that thing just to say I've tried. Thanks for the pics that just makes the story complete. A side question, where did you get the wire catches? Would make a tight coil wrap soo much easier for me. I'm currently using a 2.25mm drill bit and my coils are ok but I'm sure I can get better with proper tools.


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[kgs-wy]

For those curious about m y coilin' and vape readiness toolset, here they are...

From left to right, top to bottom:
Pen for marking my hand drill's "starting point" for counting coils.
Flat, wide, smooth jaw needle nose pliers.
Wide clippers.
Narrow, smooth jaw needle nose pliers.
Flush cut side cutters (got them when I used to install mobile electronics and security.).
Toilet paper, for wiping .... up, drying .... off, etc., 'cause it's easier to make it narrow for getting into tight spots than paper towels.
The small Philips/standard screwdriver from my Russian RBA.
Wider standard screwdriver.
Larger Philips screwdriver.
Alcohol, used with toilet paper and sometimes to just soak my Russian or Igo-T.
My aforementioned microdrill set with hand drill.
28 ga. and 30 ga. Kanthal A1 (the one with markings is the 28 ga.).
Jeweler's goggles.
Inside the jeweler's goggles, from bottom to top is a pair of +3.00 reading glasses (I've rarely needed them with the jeweler's goggles, but...), three types of jeweler's tweezers, and a pair of Sony VTC-5 18650s... Don't ask me why I had them out, 'cause I don't know...
A Ohm checker.
A Bernzomatic torch for the Kanthal.
And finally, the tabletop they're all on.

At any rate, keep on vapin', everyone!

-Laters...!
kgs-wy

 

[kgs-wy]

Just remembered something I forgot to mention before, guys: I've found that torching your wire before wrapping an ultrananocoil you have a lot better time of it. Good luck for those tryin' it!

-Laters...!
kgs-wy

Quick edit to this: this works for larger gauge resistance wire... It can work on 30 ga., but you have to be VERY careful... Sorry I didn't mention that earlier, guys...