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citrates and malates are what I remember reading, probably here on this forum. It was a list of various types of tobacco and their relative proportions of salts to freebase nicotine. I remember that American Spirit has 30 times the freebase nicotine than Marlborough, but not where I saw it.
I was just looking up compounds that I could find information, and extrapolate (wild ... guess) what I can. I didn't pick it because I believe it to be the predominant salt ( that is malate I believe)
*** NOTE! I am NOT a chemist and have ZERO formal training in chemistry.
I was just looking up compounds that I could find information, and extrapolate (wild ... guess) what I can. I didn't pick it because I believe it to be the predominant salt ( that is malate I believe)
*** NOTE! I am NOT a chemist and have ZERO formal training in chemistry.
I doubt an azeotrope would exist with an organic solvent but not sure. Might lose some of the nic but at least also lose all the stuff that would be dry residue.
By stopping when heated solution is down to say 5-10% of starting volume decomp can be largely avoided. And any oxidised nicotine might still be (somewhat) psychactive? (Other alkaloids is another matter - but they all go through this process at least once when in the atomiser).
I must admit that I had to look up azeotropes (Chem2O06 - 1997/98 - Experiment 3: Introduction)
Yes, that info i half remember too here.(Might be worth keeping in mind hydrolysis during initial extraction for a good nic yield - but so far no simple way forward - simple as in kitchen table, safety first. Perhaps someone will come up with something on that.)
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I wondered about that (azetrope), but maybe because nicotine is an alkaloid?
I've seen several references to the loss of nicotine when boiling down a slurry, but nothing definitive. I even spent many hours looking for information on vacuum distillation to see if that would widen the fractions, but found nothing.
as for them going through the process in the atomizer, I am not convinced that vaporization is what is occurring, but rather atomization.
If it is, then the simplest solution could be to build a big 120v atty, temp. controlled... put your vg in it and let it vape. Condense the vapours and vape em. Sounds like simple distillation to me!
depending on the solvent. Water seems good for both freebase and salts.
simple way, kitchen table, to freebase.
Spread a few grams of baking soda on a dish, heat to 400F for a couple hours. You now have food grade sodium carbonate.
mix in a couple grams (say 5% by weight) with your tobacco, and it will bring the pH over 11. This is a common additive to Snus.
Or were you referring to something else?
Confirmation of citrates, and another old extraction method.
NICOTINE (C10H14N2), an alkaloid, found with small quantities of nicotimine (C9H14N2), nicoteine (C10H12N2), and nicotelline, (C10H8N2), in tobacco. The name is taken from Nicotiana, the tobacco plant, so called after Jean Nicot (1530-1600), French ambassador at Lisbon, who introduced tobacco into France in 1560. These four alkaloids exist in combination in tobacco chiefly as malates and citrates. The alkaloid is obtained from an aqueous extract of tobacco by distillation with slaked lime (calcium hydroxide), the distillate being acidified with oxalic acid, concentrated to a syrup and decomposed by potash (potassium hydroxide). The free base is extracted by ether and fractionated in a current of hydrogen. It is a colourless oil, which boils at 247°C. (745 mm.), and when pure is almost odourless. It has a sharp burning taste, and is very poisonous. It is very hygroscopic, dissolves readily in water, and rapidly undergoes oxidation on exposure to air. The free alkaloid is strongly laevo-rotatory. Its salts are dextro-rotatory. It behaves as a di-acid as well as a di-tertiary base.
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atomization can only sensibly mean reducing to small particles in this context (vaping). much of the liquid will be spat out by vapor pressure as a mist of droplets without passing through a gas phase, but that part will include unwanteds too.
If the distillation is done such that the apparatus contains a minimum of air (small diameter tubing) the oxidation problem should not be great.
Indeed, that's probably why the snuss extractions done recently worked out so well. But without distillation, how to remove the sodium carbonate (or non-gaseous reaction products)?
Not a big deal perhaps if willing to go through an atomiser every few days say due to dry residue build up.
unwanteds, but how unwanted? is the issue them getting into you, and in proportion to snuff, they would be miniscule...
or is the issue the life of the atomizer, and the pyrolysis products on the filament. either way, we don't want them.
now if there was a good ultrasonic vaporizer then to me it would be a non issue. A few extra carbohydrates and tannins would be inconsequential
Small or large, once it gets to full temp there should be no air ( or what little Dalton will allow)
what can kill the atty is what what I want to stay away from, not for its sake but for mine. Thinking about it just now, the chromium from the nichrome overheating is maybe as big a hazard as any other contaminant we are attempting to avoid.
getting rid of the carbonate, would depend on what you use for intitial extraction. Here is hoping that EA prevails in that regard. Even if the high pH does affect it, the byproducts are vinegar and ethanol.
Indeed, but remember we're dealing with perhaps only 100ml.
Though there are potential problems with ultrasonic transducers getting gummed up when not in use, use of something like that could well be a wise move and i have discussed it a lot in the (distant) past.
Minus distillation, a simple extraction with perhaps added NaCO3 would be reasonably acceptable I agree. Just wish could polish it a bit.
If cant do that, adding some herbal extract tincture to standard nic e-liquid might be a better / other alternatve. Standardised nic content and (potentially) standardised MAOI content.
~~~
Keep thinking ... I'm off to sleep soon but will catch up later.
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Chromium is in small amounts actually good for us (I often take it as a supplement as it can aid the action of insulin). It's in many foods in trace amounts from contamination from processing macinery (chromium plating and perhaps some types of stainless steel).
Nickel would be less welcome but AFAIK, nichrome is very stable and inert.
Interestingly, one modder is experimenting with placing the nichrome coil inside a 1mm internal diameter pyrex tube (slows heat up a second or so); (incidentally, deposits build up elsewhere rather than on the glass, as one might have presumed).
Nickel would be less welcome but AFAIK, nichrome is very stable and inert.
Interestingly, one modder is experimenting with placing the nichrome coil inside a 1mm internal diameter pyrex tube (slows heat up a second or so); (incidentally, deposits build up elsewhere rather than on the glass, as one might have presumed).
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keeps coming back full circle again to the 'whats missing, just add it!'. standardized additive would be great, if it's the same thing for everyone, and isolatable. I'm hoping that the 'additive' would be all I need, without the nicotine. Although I may continue with nicotine anyway for it's benefits.
for polishing... have Activated Carbon, and or IX resins been discussed?
that would be Cr(3) as a supplement, Cr(6), and its reaction product Cr(5) are well known to be toxic/carcinogenic/genotoxic in very small doses.
I personally am not worried, compared to all the stainless I have torched/ground/welded in my life... it would be nothing. Just bringing it up as another factor and a risk comparison.
Thought about them (a little) but they are not exactly for the average jo!
Was reading something earlier that looked potentially very intriguing but haven't had time to delve into it (and quite possibly debunk it) : [nicotine / smoking use causes] "the upregulation of three main internal anitoxidant & detox enzymes -- glutathione, catalase and SOD", plus anti-inflammatory action, giving rise to a ~20% life extention (if can avoid the cancer of other complication. For what it's worth, link : http://www.imminst.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=32444&view=findpost&p=346071
Would certainly be great if it were possible to achieve these things without the dangers.
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Indeed, keep things in perspective.
The nichrome coil is coated within minutes of use by soot/deposits.
I remember vaguely that Exogenesis found a metal in the deposits that was a bit surprising in level but forget now what it was but i remember commenting on it.
I think it was tin with solder being a possible culprit, though the determination of tin might have been erroneous..
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thinking more on this, as it relates to tobacco,
When I am busy and engaged in an activity, I never even think about smoking for hours at a time. When things get difficult or frustrating, I 'need a cigarette'. There is likely a bio component, MAOI etc. But how much of it could also be 'Pavlovian', now that I must leave the situation to go have that cigarette? Take a 10 min break, get outside to chill, and now that relaxation response is associated with the nicotine/MAOI/ CO/ physiological ritual/whatever else? hence some people pic up vaping with 0 nic, and do fine. The initial stressor may be the 'bell', but what is it that actually drives the relaxation.
I found food grade AC here in Ontario in Sobeys, in with the vitamins and suplements. (Swiss brand I believe).
or,
Brita filter cartridges here (for water treatment in the pitcher), contain both AC, and a cation resin.
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I have often thought the same thing.
erhaps the reward is simply the time-out, or even just the idea that a smoke is a reward.
Now there's an idea! Depends quite what it will filter out but well worth a try with a subsequent vape test. Might involve a substantial volume loss though.
ps: i put some quick notes on possible smoking benefits above as an edit.
Will be out jogging for a couple hours from now.
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