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yep, just sat there and stared at the oil dripping for 4 days.
You should have seen how slow the olive oil was.
where do you get the 800mg from 20g of tobacco? I was thinking 1/4 that.
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So nothing outstanding in the way of 'IDLH'? whew.
any ideas on being more accurate on how much bitartrate to add? I just kept adding it and measuring the pH, keeping it below 5, and that was never consistent until I added the dry powder to the oil to get rid of the last of the bicarbonate.
yep, just sat there and stared at the oil dripping for 4 days.
You should have seen how slow the olive oil was.
where do you get the 800mg from 20g of tobacco? I was thinking 1/4 that.
Could be 4% or so alkaloids in certain tobaccos; though 2% as an average.
------------------------------------
Of which:
95% nicotine
2-3% nornicotine
2-3% anatabine
0.3% anabasine
Was reading today how giving electric shocks to potatos causes them to increase their antioxidant levels. Wonder if that might work with tobacco leaves and their anti-insect production of nicotine ? Maybe the shredding does this, over a day or so.
that wasn't my intention in the slightest. i'd like to know because i'm extremely interested in this. i'm a depressive, I used cigarettes to self medicate and like so many other ppl thought it was just the nicotine that was doing it. it's not though, not by a long shot. so in order to go back to self medicating because i'm not that trustful of doctors as my appraisal of the 1's in here in the US is that they're nothing but glorified drug pushers anymore. and even smoking is safer than a lot of the drugs the FDA and medical profession want to throw at people.
that's y i'm so curious, i have a vested interest in this. so if anyone who's trying this that has the equipment to let us know what chemicals in the tobacco are coming through and what aren't so we can each weigh the pros/cons of going this route are i'd be VERY MUCH interested and appreciative.
Rustica has up to 9%.
I might have to put in a small garden this year. There is a place 1hr from here that sells the live plants. Not sure if the alkaloid ratio is the same though.
Top professor claims 5 in 6 new medicines have 'little benefit' to patients | Mail Online
See also the video from a former pharma rep i posted a few pages back.
Indeed.
Though very interested in the biochemistry, our understanding is probably far from complete. The important thing is that we can replicate the alkaloid spectrum that has been doing the trick for hundreds of years in a far safer form (no combustion); and thereby it has the optimum ability to be a replacement for the majority of tobacco users.
I am of course thrilled by the results found by yourself and DVap, but I guess we do need a small double blind trial pitting nic-only w.'absolut' flavorings against WTA just to be sure flavors or placebo are not the most significant effects. Not that I have any real doubts
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well, the thread is about the assumption it is the beta carbolines that are missing.
The extraction method using the mineral oil, 'should' dissolve all the alkaloids that are present, as well as any other non-polar soluble stuff like fats, oils etc. but none of the other 'water soluble' stuff.
then, when going back into the PG/Glycerine, only water soluble stuff can get absorbed, and there is non in the oil. so, we add acid (cream of tartar) to cause the alkaloids to become water soluble. As far as I know, that is all that comes out in the end, unless there are other nitrogenous bases in there that we (I) don't know about.
If this 'works' for you, then we have it narrowed down to the alkaloids as the key. If not...... then there is still a missing factor, requiring a different approach altogether. hmmmm. got me thinking again.
Counting those that tried DVaps WTA, we have about 6 or so thumbs up that suggest that the answer lies primarily with alkaloids. There is still a chance of something else being significant, but only of minor importance I think. If there is some small yearning for CO or tar, say, I think we can live without
BTW, i left a water soak extraction to completely dry which I managed to do w/o mould growth* and the deposits are pretty much black and tarry looking (not dry, after a week or more).
The dark colors (browns/blacks) are likely to be tanins (and ?) with the purer alkaloid colors (yellow/amber) being lighter (or colorless); dependent partly on free/salt form. This seems to be the case as tceight's methodology found.
Just mentioning these things for completeness of reporting; not actually that interesting, beyond the color angle.
I think some crystalisation took place too, though I didnt look with a magnifier yet; there are distinct blobs in the deposits.
* Probably by reducing volume by simmering till the result was too toxic for growth (and which would also have killed any spores present).
ps: oxidation could have contributed to the darkness too, of some of the consituents.
BTW, i left a water soak extraction to completely dry which I managed to do w/o mould growth* and the deposits are pretty much black and tarry looking (not dry, after a week or more).
The dark colors (browns/blacks) are likely to be tanins (and ?) with the purer alkaloid colors (yellow/amber) being lighter (or colorless); dependent partly on free/salt form. This seems to be the case as tceight's methodology found.
Just mentioning these things for completeness of reporting; not actually that interesting, beyond the color angle.
I think some crystalisation took place too, though I didnt look with a magnifier yet; there are distinct blobs in the deposits.
* Probably by reducing volume by simmering till the result was too toxic for growth (and which would also have killed any spores present).
ps: oxidation could have contributed to the darkness too, of some of the consituents.
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was thinking that myself. I am really really enjoying this wta, but then with all the effort I put into it, I may be 'fooling myself'. Like a kid baking cookies, they are going to taste great no matter what. lolIndeed.
Though very interested in the biochemistry, our understanding is probably far from complete. The important thing is that we can replicate the alkaloid spectrum that has been doing the trick for hundreds of years in a far safer form (no combustion); and thereby it has the optimum ability to be a replacement for the majority of tobacco users.
I am of course thrilled by the results found by yourself and DVap, but I guess we do need a small double blind trial pitting nic-only w.'absolut' flavorings against WTA just to be sure flavors or placebo are not the most significant effects. Not that I have any real doubts
Time will tell. Placebo has a short affective period.
Hopefully enough energetic people will try it, and while anecdotal evidence is not evidence.. holistic understanding was good enough for thousands of years of medicine before allopathic 'double blinds' became the only acceptable truth.
But unlike many drugs, double blind trials have some validity, per se. Just that's there's a big difference between science and commerce; drug companies dont work on cures and prevention any more than the miltary indusrial complex endeavors for peace
Speaking of balance and natural healing, must to sleep - g'night all !
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My guess would be the tarry stuff is sugar's.
if you simmered it down the entire time, nothing would grow at 100C...
In future, maybe try adding a pinch of sodium metabisuphite to limit bio's.
as a further experiment, why not see what parts of it will dissolve in mineral oil?
if you have some accurate scales, it might be interesting to see what you get. My electronic kitchen scale is only accurate to 1gram, but I made a 100/1 lever arm for it that is pretty damn accurate. My wife wouldn't let me take it apart to see if I could just measure the strain gauge amplifier output instead, but I think the beam is better anyway.
after being tired of concentrating today and needing a cigarette but having already smoked a pack, i tried a General Mini Mint with also a CigRX under my tongue, i was kinda high in a "relax and let the world go by" state which was great as i was walking to relieve stress at the time but would be useless to try and get any work done in that state. coming down from it was mildly unpleasant
CigRx contains two dietary ingredients: yerba mate (mah-TAY) and anatabine (an-AT-a-been).
James
CigRx contains two dietary ingredients: yerba mate (mah-TAY) and anatabine (an-AT-a-been).
James
tceight - yes, sugars, maybe even caramels though i didnt simmer all the way. was liquid for about 4 days more but too toxic by then for anything to thrive there.
ingenious use of moments
btw, ever notice / read how car engines run better on foggy days? Something known for 100 years - and yet ....
3/4 of the power is just wasted as heat whereas that heat could be used to vaporise water droplets for extra mechanical push. Thinking of fitting a piezo based cold 'steam' unit to test out the idea that I might double the efficiency of the ICE. Feed the fog in with the air, post filter. Have heard of 5-10% efficiency boost by feeding air through a water jar bubbler to increase water vapor content, but I'm aiming for more than 10%
jamessam1234 - i think the thing is the simultaneous nature of a carefully balance whole. Taking the pill ingredients alone, especially after a pack of smokes, could well be unpleasant but doesn't call into question the ingredients per se.
ingenious use of moments
btw, ever notice / read how car engines run better on foggy days? Something known for 100 years - and yet ....
3/4 of the power is just wasted as heat whereas that heat could be used to vaporise water droplets for extra mechanical push. Thinking of fitting a piezo based cold 'steam' unit to test out the idea that I might double the efficiency of the ICE. Feed the fog in with the air, post filter. Have heard of 5-10% efficiency boost by feeding air through a water jar bubbler to increase water vapor content, but I'm aiming for more than 10%
jamessam1234 - i think the thing is the simultaneous nature of a carefully balance whole. Taking the pill ingredients alone, especially after a pack of smokes, could well be unpleasant but doesn't call into question the ingredients per se.
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good luck,
the otto cycle is over 40% efficient in today's modern injected engines, and the limitations on efficiency are because of the highest achievable temperatures without esoteric materials and detonation.
you can get an increase with water injection, but it also involves engine mods. Either increasing compression, or timing the injection of water to the power stroke. At the minimum, leaning out the mixture would be required.
way back in the 70's, Smokey Yunich (sp) designed an adiabatic engine that got some phenomenal numbers by recuperating the waste heat back into the intake. The intake manifold was running at a few hundred degrees C.
The 'secret' at the time, that was never disclosed, was how did he manage to keep pre-detonation from occuring? Some speculated he was using water injection.
BUT, ICE is to Analogues, as electric cars are to E-cigs.
the future holds an efficient, high density electric storage device. Once we get the energy density of electrical storage down to even double the volume/mass of hydrocarbon equivalent energy..... then who would want to burn anything?
have a great one, I'm off 'camping' with the kids for the next week or so.
goodbye all.
good luck,
the otto cycle is over 40% efficient in today's modern injected engines, and the limitations on efficiency are because of the highest achievable temperatures without esoteric materials and detonation.
you can get an increase with water injection, but it also involves engine mods. Either increasing compression, or timing the injection of water to the power stroke. At the minimum, leaning out the mixture would be required.
way back in the 70's, Smokey Yunich (sp) designed an adiabatic engine that got some phenomenal numbers by recuperating the waste heat back into the intake. The intake manifold was running at a few hundred degrees C.
The 'secret' at the time, that was never disclosed, was how did he manage to keep pre-detonation from occuring? Some speculated he was using water injection.
BUT, ICE is to Analogues, as electric cars are to E-cigs.
the future holds an efficient, high density electric storage device. Once we get the energy density of electrical storage down to even double the volume/mass of hydrocarbon equivalent energy..... then who would want to burn anything?
have a great one, I'm off 'camping' with the kids for the next week or so.
goodbye all.
Have a great time !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pObxCXhf9-E&feature=player_embedded
http://www.beijingbuzzz.com/beijing/
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Im not really for this idea, because broad-profile MAOI's are horrible horrible psychopharmacologic agents. Their pharmacologic effects leave massive room for all sorts of negative neurochemical interactions, but especially MAO-A inhibitors.
Id say start looking for a highly selective MAO-B inhibitor (i.e. Deprenyl) that has a low ED50 (10mg or less really) and vaporizes with sufficient success at the average atomizer heat ranges.
MAO-B inhibitors will impact dopamine (this is what you want, its what we all want, its what drives us to exist, its what makes us keep doing everything we do, its what gives us the feeling of pleasure/satisfaction when we do something) but spare most of the MAO-A's from getting paralyzed (pending the specific MAO-B inhibitors selectivity).
I do not see why you would want to copy tobacco MAOI's, when if your going to put that much effort into it, you could just IMPROVE upon the MAOI system found in tobacco and make an e-liquid that would actually be far MORE satisfying (not equally as satisfying) as a real cigarette. Of course... theres major ethical issues with doing that.
Id say start looking for a highly selective MAO-B inhibitor (i.e. Deprenyl) that has a low ED50 (10mg or less really) and vaporizes with sufficient success at the average atomizer heat ranges.
MAO-B inhibitors will impact dopamine (this is what you want, its what we all want, its what drives us to exist, its what makes us keep doing everything we do, its what gives us the feeling of pleasure/satisfaction when we do something) but spare most of the MAO-A's from getting paralyzed (pending the specific MAO-B inhibitors selectivity).
I do not see why you would want to copy tobacco MAOI's, when if your going to put that much effort into it, you could just IMPROVE upon the MAOI system found in tobacco and make an e-liquid that would actually be far MORE satisfying (not equally as satisfying) as a real cigarette. Of course... theres major ethical issues with doing that.
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