Beta Carboline MAOIs - towards a more effective e-liquid

[2cb]

I'm just trying to get the same feel out of vaping that I did with analogs. This can't be more harmful than those. Can it? 1 drop vaped per day seems minuscule.

if "pf" is PassionFlower, and "drops" are an extract, then off the top of my head i would say this (but agreeing with the other poster, it is NOT advice - you must research all things that you do, and have a firm understanding within yourself):

1. Harmine/Harmaline will make you very sick if you get close to ODing, the kind of sick you do not want to ever experience. nauseated, dizzy, heart-rate/blood-pressure things, vomiting, cramping, just very intensely ill. more than a 100mg might be lethal in combination with other things, and even if you fasted for days and had perfect health, more than a gram might very well be lethal by itself. but then again, a dozen grams of table salt is lethal. but less than 25mg in a day (not per dose) is probably OK, but probably will have negative physiological effects in the long term, and probably will cause headaches with cheese/beer/etc - foods containing Tyramine. in all cases, you should NEVER use them if you are taking ANY medications, whether prescription or over the counter. i would guess 1mg (or less) of a Harmala extract would be a fair test case in a person with no health problems and under no medication. but it is important for anyone trying that to do all research themselves. typically, they make almost any medication many times more powerful - but that alone may not be a good thing, especially with something that can be habit-forming, especially with something that is used daily.

2. if anyone does try such a thing, it is important to educate others, so they can add to their knowledge base. it is important to state what your current state of affairs are, exactly what you did - with all details, and then what you noticed afterwards.

3. IMHO, the goal would be something satisfying, non-habitual, and without any long-term harmful effects. personally, i still smoke 3-5x/day (cut back from almost 40!), and find that i vape more than i really would like to (like 30 minutes at a time or even more sometimes), and i have difficulty stopping vaping when i have other things to do - i keep waiting for that "i am done" feeling that doesn't arrive, and vaping does make me sleepy and tired more than usual. personally, i wish i had an e-liquid that made me want to stop after 10 hits, and then allowed me to have the relaxed powerful subtly energized intent/focus for 1+ hours afterward that tobacco gives me.

anyway, if "pf" is PassionFlower extract, i look forward to hearing any results of your experiment, including all details/amounts/concentrations/brands/usage and before & after subjective experiences, etc.

 

[VAP3n00b]

Interesting. I think the desire to stop an analog comes from the fact that it starts to taste like crap the closer it is to being done. That's why I didnt and why I think most people don't chain smoke.
I think if you only had access to nasty tasting vape liquid, you'd feel done after ten hits.

 

[slopes]

When drawing together a process for kWTA, it would be useful to keep in mind that the vast majority of people who would benefit from it are those with no particular interest in gaining an in-depth understanding of the science behind it. For most of us the important thing is that closely following a set recipe, with the correct quantity and quality of ingredients, will achieve the desired results. Such a recipe will of course come with cautions about dilution ratios of the end product - such as starting with a weak mixture in order to find one's optimal mix.

I've noted that the WTA I have made differs from real cigarettes in that the relaxed 'heady' feeling it results in is more long-term. With cigarettes it was quite instant and relatively temporary in comparison. The same applies to the satiated feeling - it can be a long time before I feel like vaping again.

 

[kardenm]

.....- what if someone retained some mineral oil in the end product? What happens if a remnant of carbonate, or citric acid reacts with the metals in the e-cig, or when they are heated on the atomiser coil, ...

Kina: are you saying that you think (or know) that vaping some mineral oil would be toxic or otherwise harmful??

 

[kinabaloo]

Kina: are you saying that you think (or know) that vaping some mineral oil would be toxic or otherwise harmful??

That wasn't really my point.

Some say it is pretty bad stuff to inhale (perhaps because it would coat the lungs and hamper breathing), though it has been used in stage fog machines because of its long lasting fog.

 

[tescela]

if you wanted more nicotine, you can just put a drop of juice on your tongue, or on your skin.

VAP3n00b: I assume that 2cb is trying to be funny. To be clear: please do NOT do this.

 

[tescela]

When drawing together a process for kWTA, it would be useful to keep in mind that the vast majority of people who would benefit from it are those with no particular interest in gaining an in-depth understanding of the science behind it. For most of us the important thing is that closely following a set recipe, with the correct quantity and quality of ingredients, will achieve the desired results. Such a recipe will of course come with cautions about dilution ratios of the end product - such as starting with a weak mixture in order to find one's optimal mix.

kinabaloo, DVap, tceight, etc.: slopes is SO right with this comment.

I've noted that the WTA I have made differs from real cigarettes in that the relaxed 'heady' feeling it results in is more long-term. With cigarettes it was quite instant and relatively temporary in comparison. The same applies to the satiated feeling - it can be a long time before I feel like vaping again.

This is really good news, slopes! Can you define "a long time" ?

 

[kinabaloo]

tescela - we're working on it, some science stuff still to do; hopefully it's not far off ...

 

[slopes]

This is really good news, slopes! Can you define "a long time" ?

Well that depends on how strong the mix is. When I really feel like I've had enough, it can last an hour or so. It's not always a pleasant feeling either... a queasiness can creep up on you.

I'd like to know if the other few people who have tried the WTA are occasional analogue smokers? I say this because i haven't taken one single puff of a real cigarette for six months now... and this stuff really gives me that 'first cigarette' feeling (or how I used to feel as a smoker if I inhaled a cigar). Perhaps for those who still make limited use of cigarettes, the effect of WTA is less pronounced.

On a slightly different note. Modding of equipment is quite a big part of the e-cigarette community... along with the ongoing search for a device that will give the perfect vape. I think it's highly likely that much of this activity is driven by the (unacknowledged) shortcomings in the commercial e juices. It would make sense to me to see most interest in modding simply fall away were some form of WTA to become available.

 

[tescela]

Well that depends on how strong the mix is. When I really feel like I've had enough, it can last an hour or so. It's not always a pleasant feeling either... a queasiness can creep up on you.

Queasiness doesn't sound so good. Also, I'll admit I was hoping you were going to say the satiation lasted for four hours or something like that.

I'd like to know if the other few people who have tried the WTA are occasional analogue smokers? I say this because i haven't taken one single puff of a real cigarette for six months now... and this stuff really gives me that 'first cigarette' feeling (or how I used to feel as a smoker if I inhaled a cigar). Perhaps for those who still make limited use of cigarettes, the effect is of WTA is less pronounced.

This is a great question. For each person that has tried WTA eliquid, please share whether you still smoke analogs, and if you do, then how frequently? Also, I guess it makes sense for each person to share whether they use snus, too.

On a slightly different note. Modding of equipment is quite a big part of the e-cigarette community... along with the ongoing search for a device that will give the perfect vape. I think it's highly likely that much of this activity is driven by the (unacknowledged) shortcomings in the commercial e juices. It would make sense to me to see most interest in modding simply fall away were some form of WTA to become available.

This is an intriguing theory. Intuitively, it seems to have merit.

Comments like these serve as regular reminders that this team is greater than the sum of its parts. Everyone has a something valuable to contribute, and we all evolve and advance faster thanks to the teamwork.

 

[kinabaloo]

On a slightly different note. Modding of equipment is quite a big part of the e-cigarette community... along with the ongoing search for a device that will give the perfect vape. I think it's highly likely that much of this activity is driven by the (unacknowledged) shortcomings in the commercial e juices. It would make sense to me to see most interest in modding simply fall away were some form of WTA to become available.

Insightful slopes. I think you're right, that is often part of the motivation, especially the high voltage angle. There are of course other reasons. I was interested in direct feed (accomplished by Raidy it seems and that is interesting because in this mode the liquid is heated more subtly and is likely thereby to be safer wrt possible heat decomposition), increased consistency (a related concept), and a way to increase the liquid capacity. On the technical side, to increase battery life by using more powerful (larger capacity) batteries was what got the ball rolling with mods. But the point you raise is also a factor.

 

[tceight]

.......................those with no particular interest in gaining an in-depth understanding of the science behind it.

it may surprise you slopes, but me neither. I just learn enough of what I need to know to move forward and make something that works. I rarely have the patience for the meticulous stuff.

 

[kinabaloo]

it may surprise you slopes, but me neither. I just learn enough of what I need to know to move forward and make something that works. I rarely have the patience for the meticulous stuff.

Dare I ask then if any progress on the acid issue experiments?

 

[tceight]

Kina: are you saying that you think (or know) that vaping some mineral oil would be toxic or otherwise harmful??

as kin said, not 'toxic'. I posted a paper on here about toxicity of mineral oil. Average consumption in north america is 60 grams a year. For inhalation, the hazard is known as lipoid pneumonia. It would take a substantial amount of oil to make this happen, and it's a physical process not a chemical one.

 

[kinabaloo]

as kin said, not 'toxic'. I posted a paper on here about toxicity of mineral oil. Average consumption in north america is 60 grams a year. For inhalation, the hazard is known as lipoid pneumonia. It would take a substantial amount of oil to make this happen, and it's a physical process not a chemical one.

it's called 'drowning'

 

[tceight]

Dare I ask then if any progress on the acid issue experiments?

you may dare.

I was holding off to get some fresh tobacco, because all I have here is already ground fine.
I wanted to start with an unadulterated process, that others could follow. Decided to continue with the ground tobacco anyway, as it is irrelevant to the experiment. Oil soak going on atm. Took some pic's too, have to figure out how to post.

 

[kinabaloo]

Good news

If you get stuck you can send them to me and I'll put on my website (500 or 500 wide).

 

[tceight]

....................................
Comments like these serve as regular reminders that this team is greater than the sum of its parts. Everyone has a something valuable to contribute, and we all evolve and advance faster thanks to the teamwork.

A great contribution slopes has made is his enthusiasm and taking a leap of faith.
The original HMWTA post 387, was made last August 2010, where I shared my results. One other person that I know of tried it, (bearscreek) and then there was very little progress on a practical front. I know for myself, I had something that worked so there was little pressure, and I was in the middle of licensing exams, so it fell of the table for me. Slopes shows up at post #590, jumps right in, and the interest here has doubled to well over a thousand posts! While helping others is the reward, interest and appreciation is a huge motivator. The marriage proposal was especially nice. Where are you BCB? ;-)

Queasiness.,,,, bearscreek experienced this too. It does take time to train yourself to titrate properly, likely because of the delayed onset in comparison to smoke, and the lack of 'cues' the body may use such as irritation, co levels, etc that just aren't there with vaping. I find I vape like a cigar smoker... slow long draws, and breathing out my nose. If I suck on it like a cigarette, I will get a pounding headache.

Tobacco use...
no analogs, no snus.
I still enjoy cigars now and then, I have no desire to give them up.

edit... Thanks to everyone for making any and all of this possible.

 

[kinabaloo]

Did you forget that I made it too - both with mineral oil and avocado oil.

 

[tceight]

Did you forget that I made it too - both with mineral oil and avocado oil.

nope, didn't forget Kin.
I don't think anyone could possibly deny that you are the one that has kept this thread moving forward on all fronts.
you came in with the avocado oil experiment at the same time as slopes was trying his hand at it,,,,it was the back and forth between you two that brought the thread back to life.
thumbs way up.