FDA Big news coming out of FDA

[Bad Ninja]

Read this thread, and, of course the links provided therein...
https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/f...n-new-tobacco-products-rolling-papers.477547/

It's too hot here and I'm going to the pool now.

Read the link in the link you linked.

Your right, they technically do have regulatory powers over the marketing of some tobacco accessories designed after 2007.
Anything available pre 2007 is exempt unless specifically stated by the FDA.

So ya, basically nothing at all.

And that reminds me, I'm out of papers, and I need to go to the store.

 

[YoursTruli]

We definitely want ecigs to be classified as tobacco products. If they were deemed to be medical devices you'd likely have to buy your mod and accessories from pharmaceutical suppliers and drug stores. If that happened the prices would skyrocket just because they could. Another control issue would be that pharma could control nicotine delivery levels to a preset dosage. No more variable voltage or wattage and probably no more devices with user replaceable coils. They'd want to be sure you didn't exceed the design dosage of nicotine your doctor prescribed.

As a tobacco product prices would remain affordable, IMO.

seriously, it looks like that is going to depend greatly on the state that you live in... 67% tax on all vapor products (to include eliquid and all related hardware) effective Oct 1st in DC, Ohio governor proposed a tax on eliquids that would have equated to about a 140% tax and they are not done trying to get a tax passed yet...... taxation on vapor products is just getting started and I don't believe it is going to remain affordable for the most part and I think that is going to greatly discourage current smokers from trying vaping when the cost could be as much if not considerably more than smoking is.

 

[stevegmu]

Read the link in the link you linked.

Your right, they technically do have regulatory powers over the marketing of some tobacco accessories designed after 2007.
Anything available pre 2007 is exempt unless specifically stated by the FDA.

So ya, basically nothing at all.

And that reminds me, I'm out of papers, and I need to go to the store.

You better buy 20 or 30 cases because they will be banned tomorrow...

 

[oplholik]

Too hot in San Diego?

 

[Spencer87]

I wish the FDA and the rest of the world would remove their grubby little hands from our lives. *Sigh*

 

[GeorgeS]

(sigh)
Ok, I'll be the 1st to admit that I think differently than others - forgive me.

If I were a elected politician looking for new revenue which of the following might my voters more easily accept:

1. tax a popular drug/health/quit smoking aid that helps people and cuts overall health costs
2. place a 'sin tax' on a tobacco product and its accessories

 

[JMarca]

1. I don't think I want to vape pesticide grade nicotine.

2. What I've read is that nicotine has been taken off the market as a pesticide anyway.

Buy it from Europe or China, most of the Nicotine we use isn't made here anyway. What's the FDA going to do stop every single package that comes from overseas? They tried that and had limited success and was widely criticized, try stopping every liquid form that comes from overseas? Unlikely.

This is all going to boil over no one in government wants to ban a booming market they just want your tax dollars. I've found ways to keep vaping and not pay the insane sin tax just helping others who might want to go the same route.

 

[Wow1420]

Buy it from Europe or China, most of the Nicotine we use isn't made here anyway. What's the FDA going to do stop every single package that comes from overseas? They tried that and had limited success and was widely criticized, try stopping every liquid form that comes from overseas? Unlikely.

This is all going to boil over no one in government wants to ban a booming market they just want your tax dollars. I've found ways to keep vaping and not pay the insane sin tax just helping others who might want to go the same route.

Even better, buy now from well regarded, trusted sources and stick some in the freezer. A liter will last me over 7 years.

 

[Alexander Mundy]

Re components and accessories:

Not saying what they will do, but pointing to past actions. Review this cease and desist letter from 2010. They were shot down by Judge Leon for the FDA calling them drugs but look at the list of accessories and components the FDA wanted shut down by this company. Judge Leon told them they could regulate as a tobacco product so if and when deeming does occur the stated items and similar could be on the slate.


http://www.fda.gov/ICECI/EnforcementActions/WarningLetters/2010/ucm225187.htm

Excerpt:

"The E-Cig Technology E-Liquid and Healthcare E-Liquid products, which may or may not contain nicotine, are intended and labeled for use with the electronic smoking products described above to fill depleted or empty cartridges that are components of these electronic smoking products. Additionally, E-Cig Technology offers the components of electronic cigarettes, cigars, and USB cigarettes such as cartridges, inhalers, cores, atomizers, E-Cigarillo lid, batteries, and chargers for sale.
E-Cig Technology also distributes various accessories for electronic cigarettes, cigars, and USB cigarettes, such as syringes with needles, plastic dropper bottles, and plastic bottles, which are intended and labeled to aid users of these electronic smoking products when transferring the E-Cig Technology E-liquid into depleted or empty cartridges of various brands/models of these products and/or into empty E-Cig Technology cartridges."

Yes, these items would have not been banned for other uses, but no one could sell them for this use. Assuming they do go down this road again kiss your local B&M and online ecig stores goodby and say hello to the expensive and illegal black market. At least until (and if) lawsuits are brought and won. Those of us that DIY and can make or maintain our own mods would most likely be ok, but what about the vast majority of former smokers and possible future former smokers (we here are now a minority) that sucessfully quit smoking with a mod and tanks and store bought eliquid that never even heard of ECF or a similar forum.

Review this list of registered "tobacco products". You will find DIY rolling papers and filters that do not contain any tobacco derivitive. (Yes I agree this is absurd, but it is the way it is)

http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/ctpocerl/downloads/Products_2015-09-01.zip

Before anyone accuses me here of preaching Armageddon, I am not being a doomsday profit here. I don't have any idea what they will do in the end any more than anyone else here does. But neither will I go around preaching roses either, lest they try to do it again. (Which I sincerely hope they don't)

 

[Guzzard]

All I read is people stocking up nicotine for themselves. Lets all stock up for friends and family.

 

[crxess]

So what would be better? A vape classified as a Tobacco product or a vape regulated as a drug?

Bait Question.........

Neither choice is Acceptable!

 

[Lemwise]

All I read is people stocking up nicotine for themselves. Lets all stock up for friends and family.

They can stock up themselves.

 

[Jesse Wright]

Regulations.gov. Search bar. FDA-2015-N-2002 let them know your thoughts on regulating our devices/nicotine/ability to vape. The more that do, the more evidence they can use, the more the defense can use. The defense will win. Your comments become public record/are entered into the docket. You only have to give a name. Under the what organization are you with choose international citizen.

 

[pbanj]

 

[skoony]

Hi all. Just catching up.

Except that this is the first I've seen the FDA assert that they can use "circumstantial evidence", not just direct marketing claims, in determining what category a product falls into. ( I wasn't following Zoid's thinking either at first, but now I think I understand, at least in part.)

If people started sucking on Bic pen barrels and the word got out it can help you quit cigarettes especially if
it did,via social media the makers of bic pens would have some explaining to do.

RIght, which would be trying to ignore/overstep the Judge Leon ruling.

Which could only be done by deeming Judge Leon's ruling to be no longer relevant.
Which could only be done by deeming tobacco use to be a disease.

I agree with you. I believe this would have to come from the CDC or Health and Welfare type agency's.
We should be wary of any shenanigans from these agency's.

Not only that, but the FDA could say that battery tubes with 510 connections ARE tobacco products, despite the manufacturer not specifying any intended use, just because they are sold in vape shops.

I believe the 510 connection has been associated as a standard in the e-cig industry and as such
can be classified as a e-cig product. Does any one know if it was a connection standard before
e-cigs and for what type devices?

Maybe the PM I sent you will help.

BTW - Should the FDA be able to Regulate this Flashlight?

Not if you use it as a flashlight.

So this clarification does nothing unless it works.
And I don't see how it can work, because the FDA can't DEEM tobacco use to be a disease.

They can't. Watch what the CDC and the other health agency's are up too.

According to the FDA, only e-liquid will be regulated, as that is a tobacco product, at least the nicotine in it; that would be part of a tobacco product. Hardware will be left alone...

The hard ware is included as they are not accessory's.Tank,atomizer and,battery have to work as a whole
or the e-cig wont work. The predicate product being the cigarette.The coil and battery represent the burning
that creates the vapor which mimics the smoke.

The FDA did this with vitamins and supplements.
It made labels more honest, and put the liability on the manufacturer to act right and not make untested- unproven promises

That's what's happening here.

Yes it does that but,this seems to go beyond that.

Yes, but who cares about the truth? Vaping will be banned, because the retailers can't say e-cigs are smoking cessation products...

They also will not be able say they are smoke free and contain no tar because that would imply
they are safer than cigarettes.

Hardware won't be touched at all. I know some like to promote fear and raise donations through the fear, but the 2007 date only applies to e-liquid, according to the FDA's own definitions-

Read the definitions again. See my above comment.


Regards
Mike

 

[Bad Ninja]

The EXACT same thing happened with vitamins and supplements.

The industry freaked out and cried "the end is near! They are gonna take our vitamins and supplements away!!"

They didn't.

You can still buy horny goat weed supplement tablets and other crazy pills at your local gas station. But now they cannot claim it works to cure or remedy a condition.

Which is a good thing for the consumer

 

[Princessdee]

Ok. I'm following this thread (slowly catching up) and reading SJ's link over and over.
Here's what I understand.
Doesn't matter what if the manufacturer only says "here, try this, you might like it"

1) If there are "consumer testimonials" that it "provides the same satisfaction" as a cigarette, then it's a tobacco product.
2) if there are "consumer testimonials" that "there is no smoke" it's a MRTP
3) if there are "consumer testimonials" that "it helped me quit smoking" then it is a drug.

So...the letter writing campaigns we've been doing (at our house anyway) for over 6 years (like the recent consumer reports issue) are coming back to bite us in our ***

Please correct me if I've misread.

 

[stevegmu]

The EXACT same thing happened with vitamins and supplements.

The industry freaked out and cried "the end is near! They are gonna take our vitamins and supplements away!!"

They didn't.

You can still buy horny goat weed supplement tablets and other crazy pills at your local gas station. But now they cannot claim it works to cure or remedy a condition.

Which is a good thing for the consumer

The prices also went down a lot...

 

[skoony]

The prices also went down a lot...

What prices? Not vitamin D or cranberry extract.
Regards
mike

 

[Bad Ninja]

What prices? Not vitamin D or cranberry extract.
Regards
mike

For the goat weed extract.

Or so I'm told......