FDA Big news coming out of FDA

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Hans Wermhat

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First you change the definition to a negative. Then you wait till The People demand protection from it. Good ol' Hegelian Maneuver.
It's SOP for the current regime. Look at what they've done to the police. Cops are afraid to do their jobs anymore because there's a chance the DOJ will step in and prosecute them even if the local agencies (who actually have jurisdiction) find no cause to act.
 

SomeTexan

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It's SOP for the current regime. Look at what they've done to the police. Cops are afraid to do their jobs anymore because there's a chance the DOJ will step in and prosecute them even if the local agencies (who actually have jurisdiction) find no cause to act.

The cops are finally getting a little of what they deserve. What you are saying is not really a valid comparison. Cops have been walking all over people's constitutional rights and getting away with it for years, using the buddy system to avoid any kind of punishment. I, for one, am glad there is someone stepping in and prosecuting them now. They still aren't being punished anywhere near harshly enough... Of course, if they did their real job, we wouldn't be in this situation. They take an oath to uphold the constitution, not the law. The courts handle the law. So, when a crooked orginazation or politician decides to make a law in violation of the constitution, they should be arresting them, not writing tickets and shooting children. If they did their real job as public servants, our government wouldn't walk all over our rights and people would respect them.
 

Kent C

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Hans Wermhat

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The cops are finally getting a little of what they deserve.
About 1 in every 10,000 cops is a cop for the wrong reasons. They are the ones who give cops a bad name. I'm talking about what happened in Missouri earlier this year and other similar instances. The "gentle giant" that caused such a stir was a thug who was already under investigation for his role in a murder. He knocked over a convenience store and when the cops tried to stop him he beat one of them to a pulp while trying to steal his gun. The cop was almost charged with murder for shooting him and will have to live in fear of retaliation for the rest of his life. When riots ensued over the shooting, the Federal DOJ (who had no legal jurisdiction or right to impose their will over the local government) handed down the word that the cops were not allowed to enforce the law and maintain peace in their town. They had to stand back and watch a bunch of criminals loot, steal and set fires. They couldn't even arrest the people that threw bottles of piss at them because the government told them not to. In the middle of it all, several of the "head thugs" were invited to the white house for a photo op with it's current resident who gave them his blessing to continue promoting the criminal activity. Things like this have happened half a dozen times in the last few years.

If they did their real job as public servants, our government wouldn't walk all over our rights and people would respect them.
I share your opinion on what is happening to our rights. However, that job falls within the scope of the federal DOJ, which, sadly, is run by the people they would need to prosecute.

They take an oath to uphold the constitution, not the law.
Politicians take this oath. Cops are charged with enforcing the law that the politicians ratify.

I used the cops as an example of the government demonizing something and then waiting for the people to demand action against them because it's one of the many things happening every day, and we can all see it if we open our eyes. They are doing the same thing in regards to vaping with a propaganda campaign. The only difference is that the president himself hasn't stuck his nose in it and incited public outrage (yet) when there is no cause for it. I guess the tobacco and pharm companies haven't reached deep enough into their pockets to buy that speech yet.
 

SomeTexan

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About 1 in every 10,000 cops is a cop for the wrong reasons. They are the ones who give cops a bad name. I'm talking about what happened in Missouri earlier this year and other similar instances. The "gentle giant" that caused such a stir was a thug who was already under investigation for his role in a murder. He knocked over a convenience store and when the cops tried to stop him he beat one of them to a pulp while trying to steal his gun. The cop was almost charged with murder for shooting him and will have to live in fear of retaliation for the rest of his life. When riots ensued over the shooting, the Federal DOJ (who had no legal jurisdiction or right to impose their will over the local government) handed down the word that the cops were not allowed to enforce the law and maintain peace in their town. They had to stand back and watch a bunch of criminals loot, steal and set fires. They couldn't even arrest the people that threw bottles of piss at them because the government told them not to. In the middle of it all, several of the "head thugs" were invited to the white house for a photo op with it's current resident who gave them his blessing to continue promoting the criminal activity. Things like this have happened half a dozen times in the last few years.


I share your opinion on what is happening to our rights. However, that job falls within the scope of the federal DOJ, which, sadly, is run by the people they would need to prosecute.


Politicians take this oath. Cops are charged with enforcing the law that the politicians ratify.

I used the cops as an example of the government demonizing something and then waiting for the people to demand action against them because it's one of the many things happening every day, and we can all see it if we open our eyes. They are doing the same thing in regards to vaping with a propaganda campaign. The only difference is that the president himself hasn't stuck his nose in it and incited public outrage (yet) when there is no cause for it. I guess the tobacco and pharm companies haven't reached deep enough into their pockets to buy that speech yet.
I've had too many run ins with crooked cops and I know too many people that have had to deal with crooked cops to consider them anything but trash. When you want justice, you have to take the city/county/state to civil court because the prosecuting attorney will not charge one of their own. Criminals protecting criminals that walk all over our rights. Money that should go to schools and other worthwhile parts of the local government end up getting paid out so that the cops don't end up in jail. It's an entirely crooked system where we need to terminate them all and start over.
 

DC2

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WOW, that's really different than their original proposed regulation.
Not exactly.
The first thing that crossed my mind was: "Essentially, claims that e-cigs can help people to stop smoking will render the products subject to medical regulation. "
Didn't Njoy already win that battle?
NJoy won the battle in court that as long as you DO NOT make such claims...
Your product can NOT be treated as a smoking cessation device...

Such claims can and will be treated by the FDA as a stop smoking device.
Nothing about that has changed since the court ruling.
 

WattWick

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It's SOP for the current regime. Look at what they've done to the police. Cops are afraid to do their jobs anymore because there's a chance the DOJ will step in and prosecute them even if the local agencies (who actually have jurisdiction) find no cause to act.

I have to admit I know little to nothing about the topic you raise.
 

Bad Ninja

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About 1 in every 10,000 cops is a cop for the wrong reasons. They are the ones who give cops a bad name. I'm talking about what happened in Missouri earlier this year and other similar instances. The "gentle giant" that caused such a stir was a thug who was already under investigation for his role in a murder. He knocked over a convenience store and when the cops tried to stop him he beat one of them to a pulp while trying to steal his gun. The cop was almost charged with murder for shooting him and will have to live in fear of retaliation for the rest of his life. When riots ensued over the shooting, the Federal DOJ (who had no legal jurisdiction or right to impose their will over the local government) handed down the word that the cops were not allowed to enforce the law and maintain peace in their town. They had to stand back and watch a bunch of criminals loot, steal and set fires. They couldn't even arrest the people that threw bottles of piss at them because the government told them not to. In the middle of it all, several of the "head thugs" were invited to the white house for a photo op with it's current resident who gave them his blessing to continue promoting the criminal activity. Things like this have happened half a dozen times in the last few years.


I share your opinion on what is happening to our rights. However, that job falls within the scope of the federal DOJ, which, sadly, is run by the people they would need to prosecute.


Politicians take this oath. Cops are charged with enforcing the law that the politicians ratify.

I used the cops as an example of the government demonizing something and then waiting for the people to demand action against them because it's one of the many things happening every day, and we can all see it if we open our eyes. They are doing the same thing in regards to vaping with a propaganda campaign. The only difference is that the president himself hasn't stuck his nose in it and incited public outrage (yet) when there is no cause for it. I guess the tobacco and pharm companies haven't reached deep enough into their pockets to buy that speech yet.

There are 2 types of cops:
The ones that break the law, and the ones that turn a blind eye while the others do it.
If you can't spot a criminal in your own ranks, your obviously not a very good cop.
 

Arcticsteam

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Seems like no matter what if something innocent, and harmless makes someone happy, there will always be a movement against it. I like to vape, it's my f***ing right to do so. If someone can stuff two big bags of doritos, 4 cupcakes, and a two liter bottle of soda down their maw(which is just as harmful as smoking analogs) with no one making one peep, then I can freakin vape if I want to.
 

stevegmu

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Seems like no matter what if something innocent, and harmless makes someone happy, there will always be a movement against it. I like to vape, it's my f***ing right to do so. If someone can stuff two big bags of doritos, 4 cupcakes, and a two liter bottle of soda down their maw(which is just as harmful as smoking analogs) with no one making one peep, then I can freakin vape if I want to.

Has vaping been banned?
 

Endor

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It's all so very laughable, cigarettes kill you. This is a known variable. Vaping saves lives, this is a known variable yet let's regulate it out of existence because it 'may' not be deemed fully safe in some configurations some day.

Cigarettes fund most governments, between taxes, MSA money, and an early death is a bonus (less Medicare).

E-cigarettes fly in the face of established nicotine replacement products, produced by pharmaceutical companies that are regulated (heavily) by the FDA.

Hence, the FDA has two influential groups bending their ear at the moment:

1) The states who want to keep their cigarette taxes and their MSA bonds funded by keeping tobacco sales up, and

2) The pharma companies, who spend a lot of money dealing with the FDA and all that GxP / 21 CFR craziness to make that nicotine patch you put on your arm, and who want to know why the same rules don't apply to a guy mixing eliquid in a rented commercial unit in Reseda.

I see this proposed rule making as clearly driven by item #2.

We as users can say anything we want about our personal experiences with ecigarettes, I have always and will always say they can get you off cigarettes.

Until the nanny state formally abolishes the First Amendment (which is being whittled away, think of the word "confederate" if you doubt me), you can on a form like this. But, based on the violation letters sent as part of this, you cannot when reviewing an item on a vendor's website.

Claiming nicotine replacement is dubious, it's not nicotine that's very addictive in cigarettes. It's freebase nicotine created by chemically boosting with ammonia, a HIGHLY addictive chemical in its own right..more so than nicotine.

I totally agree, but public opinion is not on your side, unfortunately...
 

Arcticsteam

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Has vaping been banned?

no, at least not yet but many are working toward that end. However what im talking about is how vapers are vilified at nearly every turn. Granted it maybe only my area, but still. " oh you need to stop that", "Why are you using that", "don't you know it's bad for your health", "Why are you wasting money on that", "gawd you're like a drug addict". -_-

sometimes you get annoyed. Sometimes it's not even spoken, you get tired of the eye rolling, and disgusted stares.
 

sd3614

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Tobacco to tax revenue is like the honey bee to oxygen.

Too big to fail and no one ever saw vaping coming on like this, left hook to the jaw and the more regulation tightens up it is just saying "vaping is taking away business at an accelerated rate, we have to stop it".

Nothing will every be as easy and just buying smokes at a gas station and the end game is to keep it that way.
 

stevegmu

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no, at least not yet but many are working toward that end. However what im talking about is how vapers are vilified at nearly every turn. Granted it maybe only my area, but still. " oh you need to stop that", "Why are you using that", "don't you know it's bad for your health", "Why are you wasting money on that", "gawd you're like a drug addict". -_-

sometimes you get annoyed. Sometimes it's not even spoken, you get tired of the eye rolling, and disgusted stares.

I thought the thread was about marketing, as in not making medical or cessation claims...
 
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Wow1420

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Anybody that didn't see this coming exactly as stated was not paying any attention whatsoever.
It's exactly how the FSPTCA is written, and what they have been telling us all along.

I've only made it to page 21 of the rule, and I haven't seen anything surprising yet.
 

GeorgeS

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    I wonder why we tout them this way. I quit smoking vaping, how about you?

    Well gee, I did to. Outside of which kind of FDA regulation the products fall under I can't think of any reason why manufacturers, marketers and sellers of 'vapor products' would not tout the same products as aids to quit smoking or nicotine replacement.

    So since its not a 'food' product or a 'tobacco' product and its used for nicotine replacement or as a stop smoking aid then its a 'drug' or 'combined' product.

    The FDA report seemed to focus on so called 'consumer confusion' over what vaping products intended use is and what risks to using the products or how safe the products are.

    Forget about the taxes, the FDA is not concerned with them but rather public safety. If your selling a 'drug' to the public it better have a bunch of studies and scientific evidence to at least prove it is not 'unsafe' otherwise it will become illegal to sell the stuff unless it is "FDA Approved". Only approved for certain uses.

    As the FDA points out, there is already FDA approved NRT (nicotine replacement therapy) on the market (at HUGE overpriced margins). What makes ours better than the others?

    Simply put: ours (vaping) works where the others fail.

    Of course there will have to be studies to prove this and more studies to prove that vaping is not any more harmful than current stop smoking aids (forget about proving it is safer/healthy than smoking).

    All purchased juice will need to be FDA approved which will kill all the B&M's.

    Then you have the hardware. While POT is still illegal in most states even when it was illegal in all states there were shops which sold water pipes, bongs and other stuff known to only be useful for "drug use" and while a number of laws popped up at the local level to shut down shops, the stuff never seemed to get on the Federal radar.

    The ONE THING here that worries me is the FDA shutting off the nicotine supply. If DIY'ers can no longer make juice (heck if *I* can no longer make juice) that will be the end of vaping as we know it.
     

    Steamix

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    WOW, that's really different than their original proposed regulation.

    The first thing that crossed my mind was: "Essentially, claims that e-cigs can help people to stop smoking will render the products subject to medical regulation. "
    Didn't Njoy already win that battle?

    stopped smoking...uuhh..lessee now... how do you put medical regulation on a 'cold turkey' ? ;)
     
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