Bought my first mech mod. Need some pointers.

[RagingCheese]

I pulled the trigger on a Smoktech Magneto. I've been eye-ing this mod since it launched and now that Triangle Vapes stocks the second version, I figure I take a leap into the mech world without having to dish out $200 on a high end mech to see if this is something that I will like. I will start out using the Magneto with my current tanks (IBtanked & Protank 2), but eventually would also like to take a dive into the rba/rda world. My main concern is safety and hope you guys can give me a few pointers.


Also have a few questions:

1. I have a couple of 18500 Efest v2 batteries that I already currently use in my Provari. Will these be ok to use in a mech? Or should I purchase AW IMR or Panasonic batteries?
2. Do you guys suggest in investing a kick? If so, is the Smoktech brand sufficient or should I invest in the Evolv?
3. Is running the batteries below a certain voltage dangerous in a mech? When should I switch batteries out?
4. Whats the difference between a genny, RBA, and RDA?

Thanks in advance

 

[artt]

I use aw batteries because I'm not an expert on batteries, they have an excellent reputation. Efest might be fine...I'm to dumb to know. A kick does add a level of safety, although I don't use one. I've read different things on max battery discharge and don't know what is right, so I play it safe and discharge no further than about 3.6 volts(plus the performance drops off going any lower. As for rebuildables I own a Penelope and a couple Bulli Classics so not an expert on the myriad of options out there. Mine use silica wick whereas the gennies use stainless mesh. Hope this ramble helps. Also remember with mechanicals to have and use your multimeter for safety.

 

[evan le'garde]

Genny = Genesis style RBA
RBA = Rebuildable atomizer
RDA = Rebuildable Dripping atomizer.

A mechanical mod needs protected batteries.

 

[fraggboy]

1) Don't use those batteries in your mech. They are UN-protected. Like evan le'garde said, mech's need protected batteries to save YOU! (*Most* of the time, you can tell a battery is protected by small vents on the "+" side of the battery (Not ALL of the time tho).
2) I personally LOVE my kick2 by evolv. I like to have the option to modify my wattage. I prefer modifying via wattage than voltage if you get a VV/VW.
3) I *think* it might not be wise to fully discharge them. Like artt, I like to stop vaping when it drops to ~3.7volts.
4) evan le'garde summed this up best.

 

[jmaw]

I personally wouldn't use anything else besides high drain AW IMR batteries in a Provari either. Plus they are great batteries and trusted so I would go with those for the Provari. For you mechanical mod go with the Panasonic Silver batteries. I forget the name but they are 18650 batteries that are safe even on sub ohm builds. Vapor Joes has deals on them from time to time and I believe FastTech has them too.

 

[RagingCheese]

Genny = Genesis style RBA
RBA = Rebuildable atomizer
RDA = Rebuildable Dripping atomizer.

A mechanical mod needs protected batteries.

What is considered a Genesis style?

 

[RagingCheese]

1) Don't use those batteries in your mech. They are UN-protected. Like evan le'garde said, mech's need protected batteries to save YOU! (*Most* of the time, you can tell a battery is protected by small vents on the "+" side of the battery (Not ALL of the time tho).
2) I personally LOVE my kick2 by evolv. I like to have the option to modify my wattage. I prefer modifying via wattage than voltage if you get a VV/VW.
3) I *think* it might not be wise to fully discharge them. Like artt, I like to stop vaping when it drops to ~3.7volts.
4) evan le'garde summed this up best.

My Efest batteries do have small vents on the positive side on the battery. Does that mean I am using the wrong batteries? Provape states that AW IMR are recommended and those too have small vent on the positive side of the battery.

 

[Baditude]

In the not so recent past, protected batteries were once recommended for mechanical mods, but current wisdom is that IMR safe chemistry batteries are a safer alternative to a protected Li Ion battery. These are inherently safer because their chemistry is less volatile than the extremely volatile chemistry of Li Ion batteries. Once the primitive protection circuit of a Li Ion battery fails, so will the battery. A Li Mn IMR may vent hot gas too, but it will be less likely to than a Li Ion with a failed circuit, and less violently.

The ECF battery gurus such as rolygate have written their Official ECF Recommendations on mod batteries, last updated 2013-09-01. The order of preference is below:


"We now advise that Li-Mn or top-quality Li-FePo4 rechargeables are used in APVs, in preference to rechargeable Li-ions. We suggest the best option, in order, is:

• 1. AW IMR Li-Mn rechargeables.

• 2. Panasonic hybrid cells. (Sony spinel cells are new on the market at the date of edit [2013-09-01] and it is likely they will also prove acceptable, they are an Li-Mn type). You must ensure that Panasonic and Sony cells are sourced from an authorised distributor, as they will become extensively counterfeited.

• 3. AW Li-FePo4 rechargeables [Li-FePo4's NEED A SPECIAL CHARGER]. Note that these batteries are mostly 3 volt nominal so the system voltage will be lower than normal. They are the best choice for stacking as long as they are not counterfeits.

• 4. Good quality (such as AW or Pila) protected Li-ion rechargeables.

• 5. Branded protected Li-ions come next - such as *fire Li-ion rechargeables (Trustfire / Surefire / Ultrafire).

• 6. The least-preferable option is a generic protected Li-ion.

• 7. Unprotected rechargeable Li-ion cells should not be used.

• 8. Standard cells (non-rechargeable) MUST NOT be used." -- http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/ecf-library/129569-rechargeable-batteries.html ECF Reference Library

If you are using, or plan to use, sub-ohm coils in an RBA, these require select IMR batteries that have a higher amp capacity than typical IMR batteries. Examples are the AW 18650 IMR 1600mah and the MNKE 18650 IMR 1600mah.
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/rebuildable-atomizer-systems/432181-need-help-picking-best-battery-sub-ohm-vaping.html
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/rebuildable-atomizer-systems/462202-how-sub-ohm-vaping-dangerous.html
________

I have attempted to condense the most important aspects of battery basics in the following article, Battery Basics for Mods: IMR or Protected? I have included all the resources that I gathered my data from at the end of piece should you question any of the material.

 

[NancyR]

Most of the Efests are IMR batteries and what I use 90% of the time, they should be fine so long as they are the IMR's.

 

[Tibby]

This is such a confusing subject.

 

[RagingCheese]

Baditude: I remember when I first started researching about vaping, Todd ecigreviews used Efest along with other youtube videos that I watch and figured they were a reputable brand to go with which is why I got them. Surprised to not see them on the list.

 

[sawtoothscream]

This is such a confusing subject.

agree, I went with panasonic ncr 18650pd, not listed as IMR , have a 10 amp limit. Seem to get good reviews, I want to have a coil around .8 ohms and not sure about them now. think they should be fine but nervous still lol

 

[Baditude]

This is such a confusing subject.

I agree. That is why I have recently done a lot of research on the subject. Technology changes things quickly. Just a couple of years ago the protected Lithium Ion protected batteries were considered the safest battery; it was thought that the protective circuit built into the battery made it safe. However, it is only a simple protective circuit, and should it fail it allows the unstable and volatile chemistry of the Li Ion battery to potentially go into thermal runaway - venting hot gases and possibly flames.

A protected Trustfire battery that vented in my mechanical mod and caught the pocket of a pair of pants on fire (scorched).

Then the Li Mn safer chemistry IMR batteries came along. It's taken some time, but these are now considered a better alternative. They do not get stressed as easily (higher tolerances to heat) as a Li Ion, and if they do, they typically only vent some hot gas - not likely to vent flames.

The hybrid batteries - part safe chemistry/part protected - are relatively new on the market, and hopefully combine the best of the previous two options. I'm still learning about these.

 

[Intervap]

Get yourself a cheap multimeter from a hardware store. This will make it easy to check your battery voltage and the resistance of you coils when you rebuild.
2Centsforsafety (?) fuses are highly recommended in the community. I don't use one because my mech has a collapsing spring in the case of a short.
I only use AW IMR because I am no battery guru, and don't plan on being one. They are the safest batteries overall. I don't discharge below 3.6v and don't leave them on the charger long after they are full.

 

[Baditude]

Baditude: I remember when I first started researching about vaping, Todd ecigreviews used Efest along with other youtube videos that I watch and figured they were a reputable brand to go with which is why I got them. Surprised to not see them on the list.

Which list are you speaking of?

If speaking of ECF's recommended batteries (this is ECF's list, not mine), my guess is the Efests would go somewhere between the AW and high quality protected Li Ion batteries. They didn't identify any of the other brand-name IMRs, other than the top-rated AW and the hybrid IMRs.

I know a lot of people use Efests and love them. I've read an equal number of people who have used Efests and having disappointing experiences. At best they seem to be inconsistant in quality, and I can't honestly recommend them.

About 2 months ago I tried my first Efests just to give them a try. Two each in 14500 IMR and 18350 IMR sizes. They worked as well as my AWs for a couple of weeks, but then I noticed a gradual decline in their ability to hold a charge. After about a month's use, I ended up putting both sizes of Efests away, as their performance was very disappointing. I can't bring myself to honestly recommend them. I'm still only using AW IMRs in both my mechanical and regulated mods. They are consistant and hard-working batteries and have a long lifetime. I have a couple of AW 18650 IMRs that are at least 15 months old, in an every 4th day rotation, and still working nearly as good as new.

 

[SilverZero]

Which list are you speaking of?
If speaking of ECF's recommended batteries, the Efests would go somewhere between the hybrid and high quality protected Li Ion batteries. They didn't make a category for any of the other brand-name IMRs, from what I understand, other than the top-rated AW.

I know a LOT of ECF members use Efests and love them. I've used only AW brand IMRs for over a year now. About 2 months ago I tried my first Efests just to give them a try. They worked as well as my AWs for a couple of weeks, but then I noticed a gradual decline in there ability to hold a charge. After about a month's use, I ended up putting both sizes of Efests away, as their performance was very disappointing. I'm still only using AW IMRs in both my mechanical and regulated mods.

I have a pair of black flat top Efest 18650s, 2250mAh, that I use in my VAMO and haven't noticed any dropoff yet. I think these may be the V2, but who knows.

That said, I have my first mechanical coming in the mail and won't use them in that. They will be reserved for my VAMO and I'll only be using AW IMR 1600mAh's in my mech.

 

[Baditude]

I have a pair of black flat top Efest 18650s, 2250mAh, that I use in my VAMO and haven't noticed any dropoff yet. I think these may be the V2, but who knows.

That said, I have my first mechanical coming in the mail and won't use them in that. They will be reserved for my VAMO and I'll only be using AW IMR 1600mAh's in my mech.

Wise moves. The IMR's will be a safer choice in the mechanical. With the Vamo having processor-controlled protective circuitry, the choice of IMR vs protected is not as critical.

However, if you use higher voltages with the Vamo, realize that a Li Ion will not have the maximum load current (high drain ability) that an IMR has, and may strain the Li Ion. This is why I feel IMRs are the best solution for both regulated and mechanicals.

 

[SilverZero]

Wise moves. The IMR's will be a safer choice in the mechanical. With the Vamo having processor-controlled protective circuitry, the choice of IMR vs protected is not as critical. However, if you use higher voltages with the Vamo, realize that a Li Ion will not have the maximum load current (high drain ability) that an IMR has, and may strain the Li Ion. This is why I feel IMRs are the best solution for both regulated and mechanicals.

Good advice. It's not really an issue with my VAMO, since it won't fire anything below 1.3Ω anyway and typically I'm set to around 7.5-8W. I have a 2.8Ω microcoil in my IGO-L on it right now and that's only sending 4.5V or so.

 

[RagingCheese]

Get yourself a cheap multimeter from a hardware store. This will make it easy to check your battery voltage and the resistance of you coils when you rebuild.
2Centsforsafety (?) fuses are highly recommended in the community. I don't use one because my mech has a collapsing spring in the case of a short.
I only use AW IMR because I am no battery guru, and don't plan on being one. They are the safest batteries overall. I don't discharge below 3.6v and don't leave them on the charger long after they are full.

Will I need a multimeter or will my Provari be enough?

 

[Baditude]

Good advice. It's not really an issue with my VAMO, since it won't fire anything below 1.3Ω anyway and typically I'm set to around 7.5-8W. I have a 2.8Ω microcoil in my IGO-L on it right now and that's only sending 4.5V or so.

That's about right, I would think. Anything over 4.5 volts (I don't use variable wattage) and you likely start to put some strain on the protected batteries. I would keep an eye on the battery voltage as they drain; they would be most vulnerable to stress as voltages get to 3.4 voltage remaining.