BSD's vertical hollow core Micro Coil build for ARO, Evod, and Protank heads.

[kgs-wy]

Well, I got my repack done yesterday, but unfortunately, lost Internet last night... And I've been busy enough today that I didn't even start on this post 'til 11:50 tonight (it's Monday the 15^th for me, currently...)!

Well, on to some replies to BSD (splitting his commentary up a bit before I get to the pertinent bits about the first recoil's failing).

Great pics!

Thanks! Taken with my Galaxy S4, 'cause, unfortunately, my first gen EOS Digital Rebel's batteries died, and I honestly I'd rather just wait 'til I can get a 5D mk III before getting back into using DSLRs...

Couple of things that's instructive from the photos for people. Notice in the pic of the coil being fired, the negative leg and even the last turn of the coil are not red hot. Magic of micro coils in all it's glory. Once that leg is buried under wet cotton, it'll stay nice and cool.

Also note that the negative leg is turned away from the juice opening. That's exactly what we want since it allows the filler density to be nice and even at the juice passageway.

I'm almost blushing! The coil I was firing was the second coil I've made. Ever. The one that I had as my opening pic, that I'd ripped the negative leg off of during a sneeze? My first.

I did watch some vids on the net about vaping coils, and I've seen programs involving coils used in appliances or equipment, so I at least went into it with an idea of how it was supposed to look at that point. As to the negative leg away from the opening, it kinda seemed like a common sense thing to do to avoid blocking the flow of e-liquid, lol. Considering that the coil section of a BCC is essentially a venturi with the wick acting as flow assistance -- and to a point, flow regulation -- blocking the flow is a Bad Thing.

Pack seems about right to me, but as one would guess, it's hard to tell from even good photo's. I'd turn the cup around though. It'll get plenty of juice. More likely to have too much flow, than not enough with this type of coil. There's a lot more cotton to coil ratio than on a horizontal build.

Unfortunately, looks can, indeed, be deceiving. As I surmised in my last post, my pack was too tight, making a dense, feed choking mess for my e-liquid to work through (and my e-liquid's PG heavy!). I didn't think to take pics of the original cotton pack (despite having my phone out and ready for pics ), but it was indeed scorched along the coil length; not too badly, mostly some light browning, but there were a few black spots, which I'm sure led to the acrid taste on the vape finish. That said, in my new build I have the cup sitting normally, and it's working quite well!

I also modified my coil, taking one full loop off of it and dropping the resistance down to approximately 2.2 Ω (my multimeter was bouncing between 2.1Ω and 2.3Ω). I also included a couple pics showing how I slip mine into the device and then showing the slight changes I made in my pack (in hopes this can help others in making their coils... ).

Ok, first off is the coil sitting by the positive post, arranged in the directions they'd be in while installed, but side-by-side for a length comparison. This is my coil after an initial "Burn and squeeze", but before any real straightening (the legs are all kinds of bent, and the negative leg is actually cockeyed where it comes off of the coil's top!).

As you can see, the positive leg of the coil is about 85% to 90% the length of the section 'above' the flange. Yes, there's a reason for this, which I'll get to shortly, I discovered during my trial and error with my first recoil. The

Now to the reason for the odd length of the positive leg. Similarly to BSD's opening post, I'm using my 1/16" drill as what amounts to a guide and mandrel as one. It helps retain the shape of the coil as it's placed, as well as acts as a guide for both the positive post, the coil's positive leg and the insulator. I push the positive post in gently, making sure at least some of the positive leg is captured by the post and insulator. Then, again using the drill bit as a guide, I gently push the coil into space between the post and insulator. Now here's the awesome part: the force of the gasket pushing against the post not only makes it progressively more difficult to push the coil down further, that force also clamps the leg in place. This makes 'floating' the coil above the positive post easier, since that clamping action keeps it pretty firmly in place (which I'll show in pics 3 and 4.).

This is what I'm starting to call the "positive pin assembly" completed and ready for insertion into the main coil body. The drill bit still in place, showing off the 'loft' the coil has above the opening. I'm guestimating that it's between 1/32" and 3/64".

And the same thing without the drill bit in place. Unfortunately, the negative leg was still bumped up like that and I really, really didn't like that, so I took the coil out and did a couple 'burn and squeeze' operations to tighten up the coil and straighten out the positive and negative legs.

And now the negative leg, after a touch more fiddling to get it where I wanted it and trimming it so it lays about 3/4 the length down the negative side of the insulator.

The positive pin assembly in place and ready for pulse fire testing and cotton packing. No pics of the test firing this time, sorry, but it spread beautifully from the middle of the coil out, leaving the very ends a dully cherry to the middle coils orange hot.

Here's the second cotton pack. Visibly looser than my first pack, more in keeping with BSD's latest packing job, though a touch looser on mine.

Wick pack primed, trimmed and ready. In my original wick packing, the saturation took quite a bit more time than this one did, so I think I hit it very close to 'just right', at least for my e-liquid.

Fully assembled and ready for installation in the clearo body!

Some observations after a day's worth of vaping. Standard, non-VV eGo clones (as I've mentioned, using an SI X2) don't really have the oomph to really do this coil justice. I pretty much have to keep my X2 plugged in and 'passthrough charging' to keep it delivering. And deliver it does! Though, from what I can' feel', I'm only gettin' prolly about 80% -- and maybe even less -- of this particular coil setup's potential, it's far, far, far superior to my stock heads.

Vapor production is up by about 20%, throat hit is solid and tangible (much more so than I'm used to, and I vape with 18 mg nicotine), and the flavor/aroma improvements are dramatic! I can't wait 'til I get my other coil remade to try some of my other flavors...

All in all, with about 10.5 ml pumped through it today, it's performing flawlessly.

Tomorro-... Er, it's after midnight, so today I'm getting an Innokin MVP v2, as well as a Kanger Pro-Tank. I'm going to see if the MVP v2 is one of the apparently rare eGo+510 threaded devices that'll also fire an SI's T3s (I know the eGo thread + 808KR that SI uses has a specific name, but I'm too brain dead to remember it right now... ). I'm also going to try the Pro-Tank coils in stock form, just for my own knowledge of how they perform, and then likely recoil them to this. I'm so looking forward to this...

One thing I was wondering: although slightly messy, would lightly saturating the cotton with the e-liquid you plan on using before packing into the head assembly would help with packing? It might also help with determining if you're overpacking the cotton, for those that are still trying to get the hang of it... Just a random thought...

Sorry about the wall-o'-text-and-pics, I sometimes go overboard. Hopefully, though, something of this mess I just put up is helpful to someone else trying this!

-Laters...!
kgs-wy

 

[Ken B]

@kgs

Those pics are more helpful than you can know. They show EXACTLY what you have done, and without trying, I would say they will take a lot of the difficulties that I have experienced getting a good setup.
Strangely, I am not able to get a 1/16 drill through my positive pins, but I can use a smaller metric drill which I hope will do the same job.

I do think the key, having got a perfectly firing coil is that wick density, which nobody can really be specific about. It is probably a trial and error for the individual.

Many thanks for your time and trouble to post such clear pics.

Regards

 

[Big Screen D]

Heck of job KGS. Like the way you pre-position the coil holding it in with the positive leg before placing it in the cup. I'll have to try that!

And yeah, the larger diameter coil works well for the EVOD's more restrictive draw. Redid one of my wife's last night with a larger diameter for that very reason.

 

[venemous]

Built one of these last night in a protank head. Only the 3rd coil I've ever wound. Wrapped 30awg kanthal around a juice filler needle. 12 wraps, came to 2.0ohm. I need more practice winding them tightly and getting the leg bends down. It came out a little lopsided. I think I need a small pair of needle nose pliers, was really tough to work with my gorilla hands and a leatherman.

I think I over packed it because it was spitting hot juice like crazy. I gave up fiddling after an hour or so. I'll go back to it another night.

Really bad cell phone pics...

 

[vapero]

this is a great idea! too bad that I don't use clearos anymore... has anyone tried to make an horizontal one where the hollow tube is placed on an RDA's airhole so once you vape all the air you take in goes directly trough the coils?

 

[Big Screen D]

this is a great idea! too bad that I don't use clearos anymore... has anyone tried to make an horizontal one where the hollow tube is placed on an RDA's airhole so once you vape all the air you take in goes directly trough the coils?

.Sure do. Haven't tried it myself, but I will. Cyrus referenced to that thread on the first page. Dubbed the Dragon Coil.

 

[WolfeTX]

I want to send you my personal thanks. One of the best explanations i have seen for this!

 

[otrem]

my thanks to bsd and all the others for sharing.

 

[ktazz]

13 wraps gets me 2.4ohms, can I use less wraps for lower ohms? or would that cause leaking?

Also, can anyone do a side picture so I can see how far the coil is suppose to be sticking up?

 

[Big Screen D]

Yah, you could go a wrap or two less. Could also use Nichrome or 28ga Kanthal. Nichrome will get you to 1.8ohms with 12/13 wrap 28ga around 1.5 Since the coil is the airway, I'd not want to go less than 10 wraps.

 

[project_zao]

this is a great idea! too bad that I don't use clearos anymore... has anyone tried to make an horizontal one where the hollow tube is placed on an RDA's airhole so once you vape all the air you take in goes directly trough the coils?

Micro coils, or coils very close to this that are horizontal will be found in carto tanks. I took apart a carto, well it fell apart. The coil that was inside was 32gauge 10 wraps, so thin and tight. It had a 1mm silica through it sounded by the cotton/poly fill

brought some new life and flavor to my davide tanks and some T'4s

now to convert one into a top fed genny with cable

 

[Visus]

Nice coil build.

 

[Spazmelda]

Posting so I can find this thread later. Looks very interesting!

 

[Wmmeese]

I tried this out on a Fogger v2. Vapes like a beast, but need to work on packing density as experienced some flooding after setting upright for awhile.

 

[dokebilee]

I hate to be on the negative side but this was the most difficult builds I've ever attempted. I've done dual coils with silver extensions, triple coils, microcoils, dragon coils, etc, etc, and this is by far the most frustrating one. Here are several reasons,

- I had the coil installed onto the rubber-metal cap that goes into the smaller base. Trying to get the rubber-metal cap into the small base is a HUGE pain in the .... I've tried for almost 2 hours and I could not get that rubber piece through the small base. It might be because I have big fingers but I believe it is also due to the steel cap being inside the rubber grommet, which is making it much more difficult due to compression.

- Bending the wires to make a vertical coil requires extra tools to hold the coils together while it is being bent, otherwise it will distort the microcoil and resulting in the coils not touching.

Now, I was able to get the vertical coil into the base the old fashion way. It clocked in at 1.73 ohms exactly. It didn't taste right and after adjusting the amount of cotton 4-5 times, it started to taste pretty good but the vapor production was pretty much the same as a standard microcoil (horizontal position).

Am I doing this wrong somehow?

I'm using a Protank 2 btw.

 

[Big Screen D]

Doke,

It can be frustrating until you get the method down with some practice. I haven't tried the method kgs posted on the previous page yet. Looks like it should be a good way, but makes sense what you're saying about the grommet being expanded.

I use a pair of tweezers and small needle nose to make the coils. Lately I've been bending the legs into position first, then torching the micro coil. Less chance of distorting the coil that way.

I tend to agree vapor production is pretty similar to a cotton wicked horizontal coil. Much more than a stock coil though. Once you get the cotton dialed in for your juice viscosity, the flavor is what I find to be the biggest improvement over a horizontal. Plus the cotton last MUCH longer. The one I made almost two weeks ago, and 20ml+ later is still going strong.

I've gotten to where I can usually make one in about 15 minutes now.

 

[look30]

Did anybody tried this using the new Aspire BCC heads?

Sent from my Z10 using Tapatalk 2

 

[ktazz]

Doke,

It can be frustrating until you get the method down with some practice. I haven't tried the method kgs posted on the previous page yet. Looks like it should be a good way, but makes sense what you're saying about the grommet being expanded.

I use a pair of tweezers and small needle nose to make the coils. Lately I've been bending the legs into position first, then torching the micro coil. Less chance of distorting the coil that way.

I tend to agree vapor production is pretty similar to a cotton wicked horizontal coil. Much more than a stock coil though. Once you get the cotton dialed in for your juice viscosity, the flavor is what I find to be the biggest improvement over a horizontal. Plus the cotton last MUCH longer. The one I made almost two weeks ago, and 20ml+ later is still going strong.

I've gotten to where I can usually make one in about 15 minutes now.

I agree that the vapor is about the same but flavor is a lot better than silica. Also I can run at a much higher voltage/wattage but the vapor doesn't increase much so I just set it low to conserve battery. Using a itaste vv 3.0 with only 800mah.

Also need to buy myself a small torch cause the lighter ain't turning the coil red when I squeeze it with tweezer/pliers

Sent from my SPH-L900 using Tapatalk

 

[dokebilee]

I want to clarify something from my previous statement. This build was tough to assemble using KGS's method of preinstalling the coil onto the rubber-metal pieces and installing it onto the small base. Doing it the old fashioned way is much more easier as it doesn't compress the rubber grommet. I'm going to make another one and test it out maybe tomorrow or the day after.

 

[kgs-wy]

I want to clarify something from my previous statement. This build was tough to assemble using KGS's method of preinstalling the coil onto the rubber-metal pieces and installing it onto the small base. Doing it the old fashioned way is much more easier as it doesn't compress the rubber grommet. I'm going to make another one and test it out maybe tomorrow or the day after.

Which is why I mentioned that I was building that with Smokeless Image T3's, which are... I can't really say 1:1 clone, now that I have a first gen Kanger ProTank (was on sale for cheap...! ), but a close cousin. Same concept, slightly different execution. There's more room between the grommet/gasket and the positive pin bein' the biggest factor.

There's also the fact that, upon re-reading post, I realized I wasn't quite as clear in that post as I should have been. I also forgot to mention this was all after doin' a "burn 'n' squeeze" with a torch off of the drill bit. Sorry about that.

To clarify.... I don't capture the entirety of the positive leg, just a portion of it (1/3 or less, I've found ~1/4 to be best for my particular clearos). I make sure that there's enough of the coil's positive leg held between the gasket that it stays in situ, yet the positive pin can easily slip into place. At that point, I push the coil downwards while using the drill bit through the airhole so it's all nice and stable, and the coil doesn't deform (or deforms as little as possible...) From there, it's fairly easy to make any last minute adjustments to the coil, then I remove the drill bit and gently pulse fire it on my mod. If there's a noticeably overheated spot in the coil, I stop, unscrew the head from the mod, and reinsert the drill, once again gentling it into place. That said, so far, I haven't had to do that but once, and after gentling the coils into a tighter coilwithout overlap, it fired up beautifully. Once that's done, well, then it's to packing.

And speakin' of packing, I finally found a happy medium after getting some very minor leaks indicating that I wasn't packing it quite tight enough. Been switching between that and my MVP v2 with the Kanger Protank for comparison purposes. I prefer the clean taste of the vertical coil, though the Pro Tank has better vapor and throat hit. I put that up to the MVP v2 being a clearly higher end product. This weekend I'm going to recoil the other head the PT came with, prolly a ~2.2Ω coil out of 30 ga Kanthal, or maybe a ~1.8Ω out of 28... And, of course, I'll have pics!

Hope this clarifies what I was gettin' at before, guys, and hopefully I can be a bit clearer as to what I mean in the future!

-Laters...!
kgs-wy