BSD's vertical hollow core Micro Coil build for ARO, Evod, and Protank heads.

[Scubabatdan]

Well I have 2 running, used a 3/64" drill bit and 14 wraps of 28ga kanthal. I do have some magic mike twisted wire so I will give that a go in a day or so. I am using them in the GS-H5 clearo, and they are working great. The nice thing about these is you can remove the cotton without disturbing the coil, rinse dry burn and re-stuff new cotton in every couple of days with no problem for max effectiveness.
Just need to make a ceramic drop in cup with cotton on the outside of it to slow the juice flow. similar the to bird house design.
Dan

 

[kgs-wy]

Thank you for the informative response! Sadly i use a 1/16 drill bit that fits perfectly into my pro tank positive pin. So alignment wasn't an issue. Maybe the wires need to be closer to the positive pin? Its pretty close as is, and it looks just like the first post with the top coils reaching midway of the side wick openings.

No problem on the response! As I said, I'm no expert by far, but it definitely sounds like you're suffering an airflow problem of some sort? I don't know, since -- according to your original post -- you have fine airflow with a 'traditional' horizontal coil. Perhaps the change to the vert hollow coil, with it's much more open airpath, your PT2 is running into a problem I've read about in a few places and seen in a couple reviews: when screwed down tight, some PT2 can have airflow issues. Did you try backing it off from the base slightly (so it still makes contact with the mod, but isn't down completely tight)?

As to the height above the positive pin and gasket, don't get it too close, or you will burn the gasket... Unless you do like look30 suggested a couple pages back and snip the top of the gasket! Trust me, I ended up pushing down my coil on one of my builds when repacking cotton and burnt gasket is a very, very unpleasant taste!

Thanks for the great suggestions. So far I have given up, but maybe tonight ill try again. I ended up going back to using the horizontal micro coil. Which has wicked for me wonderfully, never a dry hit, never a gurgle, smooth vaping! Might need to look into putting some air holes in, i think that would really help.

All of my previous comments and suggestions aside, if it works for you, you're gettin' the vapor, flavor and throat hit you like with the horizontal microcoil, then stick with it. I had a horzontal microcoil on my Protank v1 for a while, and while it was great, I found this better. If you do get it goin' in vertical hollow coil form and prefer the horizontal, don't hesitate to go back to it!

Well did another hemp fill tonight. This one a 28ga Kanthal on a 1/16" bit for a airier draw. The hemp twine once again is working really well, and is easier to get the fill right than cotton. I think because it doesn't compress as much as cotton, so it is harder to over pack, yet still wicks great so long as you don't strangle it at the fill holes. I just gently tamp in the little pieces I cut off of the twine as shown below. Total amount used was about twice as seen in the pic after cutting.

Hmmm... Nice, BSD, I can see how that would flow better than cotton! And I have a feeling that would work better with thicker e-liquids (which I'm starting to get into) than cotton... Do you have any, or have you tried, cotton twine as opposed to the hemp, BSD? Might be an interesting experiment if someone has both and could try a build with the hemp and the cotton!

Keep on vaping, everyone!

-Laters...!
kgs-wy

 

[Ken B]

Hmmm... Nice, BSD, I can see how that would flow better than cotton! And I have a feeling that would work better with thicker e-liquids (which I'm starting to get into) than cotton... Do you have any, or have you tried, cotton twine as opposed to the hemp, BSD? Might be an interesting experiment if someone has both and could try a build with the hemp and the cotton!

Keep on vaping, everyone!

-Laters...!
kgs-wy

To kgs-wy and BSD

Many many thanks for all the detailed help you have given on this thread.

I have just built a 30g 12 wrap 1/16th coil on a KPT @ 2.3ohms, and filled it with Hemp as per BSDs system. Hemp has been my usual material on horizontal coils on the KPT for some time, although this is my first time using small pieces. I usually use 1mm twine as is, and have found it ok before.

Now, comparing the short hemp to the cotton, I did get much more flavour from the cotton for some reason. It may be that I need to give it more time, but after an hour or two, I am not getting the full flavour with the hemp, that I did before with the cotton. It may be that it will take time to get up to full flavour, or maybe I have done something incorrectly. I will report further when I have given it more time.

Thanks again.

 

[Big Screen D]

Hmmm... Nice, BSD, I can see how that would flow better than cotton! And I have a feeling that would work better with thicker e-liquids (which I'm starting to get into) than cotton... Do you have any, or have you tried, cotton twine as opposed to the hemp, BSD? Might be an interesting experiment if someone has both and could try a build with the hemp and the cotton!

Haven't tried cotton twine KGS. I do have some peaches and cream, so may just try it out. One very unscientific observation from way back when. I took two pieces of each, and when dropped in a pot of water, the hemp saturates and sinks quickly, while the cotton twine would float for a considerably loner time before saturating. Have used hemp ever since for horizontal wicks.

To kgs-wy and BSD

Many many thanks for all the detailed help you have given on this thread.

I have just built a 30g 12 wrap 1/16th coil on a KPT @ 2.3ohms, and filled it with Hemp as per BSDs system. Hemp has been my usual material on horizontal coils on the KPT for some time, although this is my first time using small pieces. I usually use 1mm twine as is, and have found it ok before.

Now, comparing the short hemp to the cotton, I did get much more flavour from the cotton for some reason. It may be that I need to give it more time, but after an hour or two, I am not getting the full flavour with the hemp, that I did before with the cotton. It may be that it will take time to get up to full flavour, or maybe I have done something incorrectly. I will report further when I have given it more time.

Thanks again.

Maybe a little less hemp? Sounds like it could be running a little dry, but since hemp is more singe resistant maybe it's harder to notice than cotton? But hey, you obviously have the cotton density nailed, and cotton does work great when right so we got options.

I suspect I'll wind up using both. Hemp for my tobacco juices, and cotton for fruit/desert stuff. Hemp "adds" a little flavor that can be complimentary to some juices, and not so much to others imho.

 

[kgs-wy]

Was a bit bored today, so I divested my ProTank v1 build of its cotton wick and tried BSD's hemp wick idea. Did the chopped strand hemp and, while decent with my new e-liquid (Epic Juice's Apple Jax, which is a 60/40 VG/PG of pure deliciousness!), it wasn't quite delivering the juice flow I needed to keep goin' without a long pause (1.5 - 2 minutes, which is forever when I'm in a vaping mood!). I played a bit with the pack density and couldn't quite get it done, so I tried it with untwisted hemp wrapped around the coil (via stuffing it down around the coil, since, I didn't feel like pulling the positive pin assembly out of the atomizer head.)... It was easier to control the pack density, and I find it wicks better than the chopped strand pack, at least in my build (that might change when I get my PT2 in Monday, since it's supposedly got a tighter draw, which might improve the vacuum on the wicking section of the atomizer). While the untwisted, unchopped wick coil seemed to wick a bit better, I'm doin' bit of an experiment based on the construction of the PT; while it seems to have worked a bit, I'll wait 'til I've vaped for a few hours to see how it works out overall.

That said, I can still taste the hemp a bit (all natural, unbleached, and twice boiled), but it's lessening with each vape as the liquid saturates deeper and deeper into the hemp. No scorching, however, which is a distinct plus! Probably gonna be doin' another 28 ga Kanthal microcoil, this time closer to 2Ω, and try the hemp pack I have currently.

Anyway, keep on vaping, everyone!

-Laters...!
kgs-wy

 

[Big Screen D]

KGS. How did you keep the twine whole? Separate cut pieces in several layers, or one piece? Just around the coil, with no wick sticking out the juice passages?

 

[rolf]

hi big screen !
my favored atty till now was the did clone . wanted to try this so I got the pt and vaped it with the stock coil ...very nice .
finely burned up ...and proceeded to build the coil ...easy ..but the cotton packing drove me crasy .it is so spungy !!
used a 04 paper clip with 30 gage wire . the hemp I used before gave me a taste I did not like . so I will try to use peaches and cream on the next try.the flavor is defenatly better . looking at my did s since I got four of them ...what I would like to do is drill a hole where I will put a small "cup " will go about halvway through and then one from the side to meet up ..for the air to flow from the bottom into the cup. there seams plenty of "meat "to drill the new air passage ..did anybody try that already ?should work with this micro vertical coil . with some new holes for some wicks .your system works to good not to persue in other attys...hve fun rolf

 

[kgs-wy]

KGS. How did you keep the twine whole? Separate cut pieces in several layers, or one piece? Just around the coil, with no wick sticking out the juice passages?

Hmmm, I'll give a shot of explaining it now, but since I'm going to recoil the other head for my ProTank v1 today or tomorrow (presuming real life doesn't bit me on the ..., of course!), so I'll take some pics while I do it for clarity, lol.

That said, the piece is placed whole, but follows a process... For information purposes, the hemp I use is 6 strand, and as mentioned in my earlier post, it's natural, unbleached hemp that I boiled twice between 20 and 25 minutes each boil (I picked it up at the local Jo-Ann Fabric and Craft store). I cut a length of between 2" and 3" -- the extra length is mostly for working room, since you can easily cut some off, but adding more tends to be a pain -- then untwist the very end to about 1/4". Using my Very Small and Thin Poking and Prodding Tool (in my case, a 1/32^nd drill bit), I maneuvered several of the strands under and around the negative leg. While doing this, I'm trying to a: keep the coil in place (the drill bit/other die tool down the center helps) and not push it down into the positive pin, and b: keep the strands mostly under it, as the second turn around the atomizer chamber of the head goes between the negative leg and the outside wall of the chamber. Then, using said prodding tool, I push the uncoiled section about 1/5 - 1/4 around the coil. Then I carefully untwist it, using the prodding tool to keep it down inside the chamber as best I can. Some of the strands will end up popping upwards a bit, but they are easily pushed back down. Then I continue around the coil, again 1/5 - 1/4 turn around the chamber, untwist, push down, around again, untwist, push down, 'til I'm at the negative leg again.

This time, instead of untwisting after placement in the chamber, I untwist about 1/8" - 1/4" before placement; the reason, as mentioned above, is instead of going under the negative leg, I go over it. Once that set of strands is in place, I continued around once more as before, but with a bit of a -- pardon the pun -- twist on things. I get the untwisted twine down to the wick slot, then untwist just to the wick slot; I then make a loop of still twisted twine outside of the wick slot, before placing it back into the atomization chamber. Once it's back inside the chamber area, proceed as before, 1/5 - 1/4 turn around the coil, untwist, press down, etc., 'til the next wick slot, where I mirror the other slot's loop. I finish out the chamber pack as before, but cut the untwisted wick ~1/16 (or maybe just a tiny bit less) past the negative leg, stuffing the loose ends around and under the negative leg.

At this point, I return to the untwisted wick loops outside of the wick slots. This is the part that may seem counter intuitive to some, but I then take the e-juice I plan on using and put a light amount on the wick loops sticking out of the wick slot and a little bit into the slot proper; the reason is that the juice will help hold the wicks in place without having to fight them with the prodding tool. I then cut the loops in the center, pull the now loose strands away from the slot (not out, mind, lol), then trim them to the proper length (again, the light juicing of the strands helps with controlling them).

Then I saturate the holy living hell out of the wicks, before placing it in my PT. The worst part, for me, about using hemp is letting the juice saturate all the way through, which helps speed the removal of the 'hemp taste' in my vapes. It can take from an hour for strong juices (such as the black licorice I love), to five or six hours for more complex or desert flavors. For the latter, I'll still get several, up to a couple dozen, draws before the hemp taste goes away, but... :: shrugs ::

Reading back on this, I know it sounds complex as hell as I've described it, but the execution of it is actually relatively simple... I have to wonder if the complexity of the description has more to do with the nature of the packing, or the skill of the post author in describing the packing?

Based on my experience with hemp vs. cotton, I have to agree with BSD, fruits and deserts would probably be better on the cotton (or perhaps have quicker access for vaping...? ), while tobacco or other, more earthy flavors (perhaps chocolates) or particularly strong flavors might work nicely on the hemp.

That brings up an observation I've made about hemp wicks... At the risk of sounding like a ....., it seems to me that shallow, 'mostly surface' wicking of hemp seems to be faster than loose cotton from cotton twine or balls, but deep saturation seems to be faster with the cotton. I'm guessing that has to do with the structure of each, but... :: shrugs :: I dunno, lol. Just a personal observation from a relative neophyte, I'm sure some of you veteran vapers could steer me in the right direction with that if I'm totally off base.

Anyway, keep on vaping, everyone!

-Laters...!
kgs-wy

 

[Big Screen D]

Rolf, there is a bunch of vapors running these hollow core coils in Genisis atty's. Dubbed the dragon coil. What they're doing is making the coil such that the opening lines up with the top cap hole.

I'v egot some of those DID clones too. That's an interesting idea to create a dedicated air passage. Man, I need to invest in a drill press.

 

[Big Screen D]

Got ya KGS. I've got both the 6 strand hemp you described, and the twelve strand stuff fro Love Pedal.

Dude, you a writer or something? That's about as good and as detailed description as one could possibly write to describe your method. Thanks!

While I've had good success with using the small piece method, intuitively single length should wick better since the juice doesn't have to transfer from piece to piece. Though it sounds kinda tricky to pull off.

 

[Big Screen D]

Man just can't get my old fingers to work in the hemp as a strand.

So...since I was in a fiddling mode, and just to aggravate my wife ("you fooling with that again") I decided to try out a hemp pieces/cotton hybrid. Juiced little hemp pieces tamped and formed around the coil until almost to the top of the coil, followed by a ring of cotton to kind of smooth things out. Nothing protruding from the juice holes other than what sort of naturally pokes out.

Soaking now, so we'll see how it goes shortly. Have a good feeling about this one.

 

[kgs-wy]

Dude, you a writer or something? That's about as good and as detailed description as one could possibly write to describe your method. Thanks!.

I'm savoring the irony, in that I'm constantly writing to improve my writing skills in hopes of being a published fiction author.

Yeah, I know all about fingers being fumbly with the process, considering I wear L or XL gloves, depending on the material and manufacturer. I just plod through it (took me somewhere between twenty and thirty minutes the second time I did it, and almost an hour to come up with the most workable process the first time).

I'm actually eager to hear how that works out, BSD! I was thinkin' about a cotton top layer for my 'single length' hemp wick, but I'll wait to see how yours works.

Anyway, keep on vaping, everyone!

-Laters...!
kgs-wy

 

[Big Screen D]

About halfway though a 6ml tank and am pleased to report the hemp twine/cotton topped wick is performing great. Seemed at first as though it was going to run on the dry side, but has settled in nicely. Pretty sure this is going to be easily replicated for future builds, and should take only a few minutes to form the wick.

 

[Ken B]

Hmmm, I'll give a shot of explaining it now, but since I'm going to recoil the other head for my ProTank v1 today or tomorrow (presuming real life doesn't bit me on the ..., of course!), so I'll take some pics while I do it for clarity, lol.

That said, the piece is placed whole, but follows a process... For information purposes, the hemp I use is 6 strand, and as mentioned in my earlier post, it's natural, unbleached hemp that I boiled twice between 20 and 25 minutes each boil (I picked it up at the local Jo-Ann Fabric and Craft store). I cut a length of between 2" and 3" -- the extra length is mostly for working room, since you can easily cut some off, but adding more tends to be a pain -- then untwist the very end to about 1/4". Using my Very Small and Thin Poking and Prodding Tool (in my case, a 1/32^nd drill bit), I maneuvered several of the strands under and around the negative leg. While doing this, I'm trying to a: keep the coil in place (the drill bit/other die tool down the center helps) and not push it down into the positive pin, and b: keep the strands mostly under it, as the second turn around the atomizer chamber of the head goes between the negative leg and the outside wall of the chamber. Then, using said prodding tool, I push the uncoiled section about 1/5 - 1/4 around the coil. Then I carefully untwist it, using the prodding tool to keep it down inside the chamber as best I can. Some of the strands will end up popping upwards a bit, but they are easily pushed back down. Then I continue around the coil, again 1/5 - 1/4 turn around the chamber, untwist, push down, around again, untwist, push down, 'til I'm at the negative leg again.

This time, instead of untwisting after placement in the chamber, I untwist about 1/8" - 1/4" before placement; the reason, as mentioned above, is instead of going under the negative leg, I go over it. Once that set of strands is in place, I continued around once more as before, but with a bit of a -- pardon the pun -- twist on things. I get the untwisted twine down to the wick slot, then untwist just to the wick slot; I then make a loop of still twisted twine outside of the wick slot, before placing it back into the atomization chamber. Once it's back inside the chamber area, proceed as before, 1/5 - 1/4 turn around the coil, untwist, press down, etc., 'til the next wick slot, where I mirror the other slot's loop. I finish out the chamber pack as before, but cut the untwisted wick ~1/16 (or maybe just a tiny bit less) past the negative leg, stuffing the loose ends around and under the negative leg.

At this point, I return to the untwisted wick loops outside of the wick slots. This is the part that may seem counter intuitive to some, but I then take the e-juice I plan on using and put a light amount on the wick loops sticking out of the wick slot and a little bit into the slot proper; the reason is that the juice will help hold the wicks in place without having to fight them with the prodding tool. I then cut the loops in the center, pull the now loose strands away from the slot (not out, mind, lol), then trim them to the proper length (again, the light juicing of the strands helps with controlling them).

Then I saturate the holy living hell out of the wicks, before placing it in my PT. The worst part, for me, about using hemp is letting the juice saturate all the way through, which helps speed the removal of the 'hemp taste' in my vapes. It can take from an hour for strong juices (such as the black licorice I love), to five or six hours for more complex or desert flavors. For the latter, I'll still get several, up to a couple dozen, draws before the hemp taste goes away, but... :: shrugs ::

Reading back on this, I know it sounds complex as hell as I've described it, but the execution of it is actually relatively simple... I have to wonder if the complexity of the description has more to do with the nature of the packing, or the skill of the post author in describing the packing?

Based on my experience with hemp vs. cotton, I have to agree with BSD, fruits and deserts would probably be better on the cotton (or perhaps have quicker access for vaping...? ), while tobacco or other, more earthy flavors (perhaps chocolates) or particularly strong flavors might work nicely on the hemp.

That brings up an observation I've made about hemp wicks... At the risk of sounding like a ....., it seems to me that shallow, 'mostly surface' wicking of hemp seems to be faster than loose cotton from cotton twine or balls, but deep saturation seems to be faster with the cotton. I'm guessing that has to do with the structure of each, but... :: shrugs :: I dunno, lol. Just a personal observation from a relative neophyte, I'm sure some of you veteran vapers could steer me in the right direction with that if I'm totally off base.

Anyway, keep on vaping, everyone!

-Laters...!
kgs-wy

Fantastic description again kgs, and I know you will hate me for asking, but........................any chance of some pics to go along with that procedure? Old age and senility prevent me from following it to a conclusion.

Know it is asking a lot.

 

[kgs-wy]

Fantastic description again kgs, and I know you will hate me for asking, but........................any chance of some pics to go along with that procedure? Old age and senility prevent me from following it to a conclusion.

Know it is asking a lot.

Lol, I did mention up at the top of that post that I'm gonna be takin' pics when I get a chance to recoil my other ProTank head. ;P I'm hopin' to do that tomorrow, but I might be busy all day, so if I am, I'll do it on Monday. Of course, Monday I get a ProTank 2 and two extra heads (four new atomizer heads to play with!), so I might just be really busy with coilin'...

At any rate, keep on vapin', everyone!

-Laters...!
kgs-wy

 

[JeremyR]

.
.

Well guys glad to see the vertical coil took off. It is definitely the bomb. Best hands down for me. First posts on this style build were in the dragon coil thread and I give iteo 100% credit on spurring the ideas that lead me to this vertical build... Bsd? Bsd coil.. if that's what You Want to call it.. I shouldn't be bothered i guess.. I cross posted it all over just wanting as many people to have a chance to see it and try it and that's what's happening.

If you guys step up from the protank or need other tips for different RBA's ck out this thread too.

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...icro-coil-oddy-kayfun-russian-ithaca-ect.html

 

[Ken B]

.
.

Well guys glad to see the vertical coil took off. It is definitely the bomb. Best hands down for me. First posts on this style build were in the dragon coil thread and I give iteo 100% credit on spurring the ideas that lead me to this vertical build... Bsd? Bsd coil.. if that's what You Want to call it.. I shouldn't be bothered i guess.. I cross posted it all over just wanting as many people to have a chance to see it and try it and that's what's happening.

If you guys step up from the protank or need other tips for different RBA's ck out this thread too.

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...icro-coil-oddy-kayfun-russian-ithaca-ect.html

Have absolutely no idea what this is supposed to show. Quality is so bad. Had a look at that other thread and pics just the same quality. Couldnt make head nor tail of it.

Dont know what point you are trying to make about BSD either!

 

[JeremyR]

Yeah sorry shouldn't post at 2am buzzed. Should have kept it to myself. That pic was the first vertical hollow core micro coil posted in the micro coil thread in an oddy. Thermonuker posted a vertical protank build on 10/5 in the dragon coil thread. Just sayin' .. That's the point I was on.. but yeah shouldn't have posted it.

Sorry Bsd, it doesn't matter who did it first.. all that matters is your teaching others how to ..

It is the holy grail, that was my thought when I started going V . The flavor and nic delivery is off the charts and i have been able to cut those %'s down considerably.

Back to your regularly scheduled program..

 

[Big Screen D]

Jeremy, when I posted this back on 10/6, trust me, I had never even heard of a "vertical dragon coil". Cyrus pointed out to me that he had hit on a similar build with his Russian RBA, and that was the first time I seen that thread. Thought I'd done the right thing giving props to Super X Drifter who to me popularized the micro coil.

In any case, I'm still not aware of this build being done prior to 10/6 in a Pro Tank head. At least not a tutorial though it wouldn't surprise me in the least that someone somewhere did.

Just seemed intuitive that a coil with no spacing would act as a airway, and could be built in a similar fashion to a cartomizer but with a serious coil. And at the end of the day, that's what this is.

I initially built this type head, for the atty I designed and built for use in my Billet Box, and thought I'd share it with others using the very popular BCC's since it will work in all of them. This is currently the only way to run a vertical micro coil in a Billet Box at this time.

 

[JeremyR]

Right on Bsd, the progression of vaping had hit the point where lights were going off in many peoples heads and the vertical is now catching on and it is absolutely great! I meant to mention you may have come up with this on your own ... because it only takes looking at a carto to come up with it and just implement it. I'm sure others have tried it in the past. This build can take your vaping experience to the next level for sure.

One thing I do know for sure is the VHC is the real deal.

That billet box is crazy, looks like a car part.

Peace out