Burning Cartomisers? Dangerous?-510/Kr808/4081...etc filler type cartos
- Thread starter dougp925
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gotta get this back on page one for me - just in case br comes up with some more modifications .............. 
I didn't even realize that this wasn't on my front page. i want it back there too
gotta get this back on page one for me - just in case br comes up with some more modifications ..............
No new mods, Tibs. I haven't been doing so well for the past several weeks and haven't felt like doing much. I was in the hospital again a few weeks ago and spent all day in Radiology a few days ago, so have also been recovering from those episodes. Reports of my death have been exaggerated, but not very much, heheh.
Somewhere during this time though, I began using an optional mouthpiece that I suppose could be called a new mod. When used, my PV is shorter and looks more like a cigar than an e-cig tank.
It all came about while I was daydreaming about the old original C-E2's and how I used to tailpipe them on an open reservoir. I remembered how I used to enjoy the warm and softer smoke instead of the high velocity one that could be hot on the tip of my tongue. Then I got to thinking that the large coil cups in my mods are the same diameter as an old C-E2, so why can't I make a mouthpiece with a hole in it that size? That was a silly question to ask, so I just made it and quit thinking about it.
Here's a photo of the goofy looking thing, but you can't see it very good:
It took a while to get used to the feel of this thing and how best to use it, but it looks like I am now an e-cigar smoker. The only thing better is to tailpipe it.
But I ain't gonna make a larger cartomizer so that I can make a mouthpiece with an even larger hole in it so that it will be like tail piping the one I am now using. I ain't even gonna think about it.
((((BR))))
Hope you continue recovering, and get your energy back. I hope that Mrs BR is doing well.
can't wait to see the new larger cartomizer
Hope you continue recovering, and get your energy back. I hope that Mrs BR is doing well.
can't wait to see the new larger cartomizer
((((BR))))
Hope you continue recovering, and get your energy back. I hope that Mrs BR is doing well.
can't wait to see the new larger cartomizer
I don't see an end to the recoveries yet, CES. Each one has to be done before something else can be fixed. Sort of like trying to fix a train wreak.
Peggy is doing fairly well most of the time. She is my designated driver and wheelchair motor.
I ain't even gonna think about your last remark, heheh.
sounds like a complete rebuilding....maybe we should start thinking of you as the 6 million dollar man.
Howdy cowboy!
That is a goofy looking mouthpiece!
I like my vapor concentrated. I like those flat whistle tips the best and I never used drip tips on my cartos.
Take care of yourself--you've been through a major surgery. Hugs and continuous good wishes to you and Peggy!
That is a goofy looking mouthpiece!
I like my vapor concentrated. I like those flat whistle tips the best and I never used drip tips on my cartos.
Take care of yourself--you've been through a major surgery. Hugs and continuous good wishes to you and Peggy!
Last edited:
lol! the one day i'm on the road first thing in the morning - well, middle of the night almost - and br pops in!
hugs to you and peggy! and if it takes a major overhaul you better get it done! we count on you to keep posting
hugs to you and peggy! and if it takes a major overhaul you better get it done!
we count on you to keep posting 
Per Kat's request. Stashed here:
Volts, Ohms, Watts, and Amps.
E-cigs introduce you to terms that you probably wouldn't use everyday without them. Yet, you need to understand some of them, in order to wade through the sites and options and understand the effect of your choices. This post discusses the electrical terms in particular; volts, ohms, watts and amps. The good news is...it isn't really that bad. The bad news is that it isn't a 2 second discussion.
The short answer is that if you have a Variable-Voltage (VV) or Variable Wattage (VW) device, you can just start low, dial it up, and make it work. No math required. Non-adjustable voltage PVs require you to select the proper ohm coil ahead of time.
However, if you want to UNDERSTAND how and why the ohms affect the heat, for example, that will take some work on your part. It's not too bad, but it's also something that you don't want to try to cram into a 2 minute reading. You may have to read this a couple of times. That's fine. Don't give up. If you really can't stand reading...skip to part 3.
Part 1 - coming to terms with it
OK let's get some terms straight first:
Volts = Electrical Pressure. Kind of like water pressure.
Ohms = Friction. Resistance to the flow of electricity. Without friction, we'd have no heat in our coils. Like a kink in a water hose.
Amps (amperes) = total electrons flowing past a point. Similar to the volume of water (# of molecules?) going past a point in the hose at one particular instant.
Watts = A measure of "work". Watts = Volts X Amps. How fast it could turn a water wheel.
Watts are kind of an "end-result". No work is done if there's no pressure. Also no work is done if there's no volume of water flowing. You have to have pressure and water flow to get an effective amount of water on the lawn from a sprinkler. High pressure with a very thin hose won't do it. Neither will no pressure with a fat fire-hose. You have to have volume and pressure at the same time. The constriction of a hose is a resistance (like ohms), and determines the flow rate for a given pressure.
All of these things are interrelated. If you change any one thing, the system as a whole is changed. In fact, if you know any two of the above variables, you can calculate the others. They are measurements for different aspects of a particular system. All pieces of the same puzzling phenomenon.
Volts, ohms, watts and amps are quantities that can be measured and related mathematically. That leads to the inevitable formulas....
Part 2 - Finally! Some math. Yay! (or OMG! I hate this stuff.)
Because volts, ohms, and amps are measurable quantities, someone took a lot of measurements of them and figured out how they all relate. The results of this relationship became "Ohm's Law" of electricity. The law was named after the German physicist Georg Ohm, who published them in the early 1800's. Thanks to James Prescott Joule there's also Joule's Law: Watts = Volts x Amps but we're getting ahead.
Now quantities measured need names for them. Feet, meters, pounds, grams are all units of measure. Some of the units of measure for electricity are defined above: Volts, ohms, watts, amps. We have abbreviations for them so we can use them in formulas. The bad news is that you'll see several versions of these abbreviations. The good news is that we'll try to tell you the common ones so you can substitute whatever version you like.
Abbreviations:
Volts = V = E = (Straight line with little dots under it symbol for DC voltage)
Ohms = R = Ω = Resistance
Amps = I = A
Watts = P = W = Power
It's very irritating when you see one set of formulas published here, and another set somewhere else that uses different letters or symbols. Your multi-meter (the tool used to measure these things) often uses a different set too. Yet we have to pick one set. No matter what we select, someone's not going to like it...depending on if they are a "purest" or of they are in the commonly-seen camp. We'll use V for volts, R for ohms (resistance), I for Amps (because A is used for something else except on multi-meters), and P for watts (Power).
OK, so this guy Ohm published a "law" that is stated in modern form as:
Amps = Volts ÷ Ohms or I = V ÷ R
Add in Joule's Law: Watts = Volts X Amps or P = VI
Mathematicians, having nothing better to do than math, re-arranged all this stuff and came up with a list of formulas (note the X here means multiply...it's not a variable):
Amps (I) = V ÷ R, also I = P ÷ V and I = Square-Root of (P ÷ R)
Volts (V) = I X R, also V = P ÷ I and V = Square-Root of (P X R)
Ohms (R) = V ÷ I, also R = V2 ÷ P and R = P ÷ I2
Watts (P) = V X I, also P = R X I2 and P = V2 ÷ R
OK. So the formulas are listed above. What does all this have to do with e-cigs?
Part 3 - Getting to the point, now that we have background and formulas.
You, a user of e-cigs, are basically juggling multiple variables related to electricity. Sure, there's other stuff too...e-juice VG/PG ratios, wicking, etc. but we're discussing electricity here. The point is that there's no ONE variable...there's always multiple things going on at once. Selecting a PV has electrical concerns too...for example the "amp limit" of the device. Swapping a carto out with different ohms means that you'll adjust the voltage (for VV stuff) or deal with the results for fixed-voltage stuff. VW adjusts voltage for you...like it or not.
To reiterate, you can't change one thing without it affecting the others somehow. So here's where we try to explain how what you do effects things. Also, note that this is not an e-cig safety thread. So we try to explain some things, but safety is another subject unto itself. Don't take this as gospel. We're trying to teach general concepts here.
Voltage...the Oomph factor
You have one of three types of PV's
1) Fixed voltage. They are "regulated" to a speific set voltage. They may dwindle below it before cutting out, but they are still "fixed" in that you can't adjust them. They are regulated though....electronic circuits inside attempt to make the voltage the same regardless of the battery charge. Some only do this when the battery is above the set voltage limit.
2) Variable voltage. Adjustable voltage (also adjustable wattage) e-cigs have circuitry to bump-up (boost) or regulate down (buck) battery voltage according to a dial that you set. Variable Wattage (VW) e-cigs read the resistance of the coil you've screwed onto the connector and calculate the voltage you need to acheive a desired wattage setting. So they adjust the voltage for you.
3) Follows battery voltage - ie two wires, a battery, and a connector. Vaping directly off the battery at whatever voltage it has at the moment. Typical for all-mechanical mods. Li-Ion (and that class of batteries including IMR) have a top voltage of about 4.2 volts but they drop quickly to about 3.7/3.6 volts and stay in that rage for most of the usable charge and then drop quickly below that to cut-off voltage.
Each of these types come in either swappable battery configurations (where you have a "cell" that you can remove) or internal battery configurations where you charge the whole unit somehow and cannot remove the battery from the electronics/mechanics.
How do you make a fixed voltage e-cig hotter or cooler? By selecting the proper ohm coil. It's the only "variable" that you can change. The voltage is fixed. And as we've learned above, if any two factors are known, all factors are set. So the heat will be P = V2 ÷ R (or Watts = Voltage squared divided by coil ohms) for a single coil. So if you want to vape at 8 watts, and you know the voltage of your fix-volt e-cig...use R = V2 ÷ P (voltage squared divided 8). A 3.7 volt e-cig needs 3.7 x 3.7 / 8 = 1.71125 ohms to get 8 watts. Of course, there's wiggle room. And in fact coil ohms vary a bit due to manufacturing variability. 2.0 ohms will work. 3.0 ohms is not that good. 1.5 ohms may even be a bit hot. On the other hand, some e-cigs are 3.4 volts (like the original authentic eGo) and they may do better at 1.5 ohms.
How do you make a VV, or VW e-cig hotter or cooler....by adjust the dial, of course! The difference is that with VW, it will "sense" the ohms of the coil that you have screwed on and calculate the proper voltage...assuming you don't fake it out with the dual-coil thing. More on DC (dual coil) stuff later. Due to differences in devices and coils, you may have to adjust VW a bit anyway. But it gets you into the ballpark regardless of what ohm coil you screw on.
So for regulated fixed voltage stuff, or for follow-battery-voltage stuff, you must select the proper ohms ahead of time...there's no adjustment for the voltage/wattage on the e-cig. Get it wrong, and it's too hot or too cool. It's not super picky though...there's a workable range of ohms within reason.
Wattage
You know wattage. It's like incandescent light-bulbs. More wattage = more energy used = hotter/brighter. It's the result of the voltage and the coil ohms per the formula above. Watts = heat for our purposes. Normal ranges are about 7-9 watts per coil. This is for "normal" coils. There are dual coils ...where the PV must supply double the current (amps) in order to keep the voltage high enough for two coils. Think of it like a two lane toll booth on a toll road allowing double the cars through at once. Electrons per second past a point = amps (current). So more amps are required for dual coils at any given voltage.
The watts for dual coils are, not surprisingly, doubled for the device as a whole. If each coil is 8 watts, you need to supply a dual coil with 16 watts total. This is why dual-coil users often run up against amp limits on their devices. The device exceeds it's expected amp draw and either signals a "short" or drops the voltage to compensate for lack of amps. It won't work as expected, if at all, unless your PV can supply the amps at whatever voltage you set.
For VW devices...just set the wattage. For VV only devices...calculate the voltage or just start low and adjust higher as needed. To calculate the voltage:
So for single coils: Try 7-9 watts as a ballpark/average. Let's say 8. So voltage = Square-Root of (P X R) = Square-Root of (8 X ohms)
For dual coils: double the ohms 1st. A 1.5 ohm dual coil is really two 3.0 ohm coils side-by-side on the same connector. So the voltage is calculated for 3.0 ohms, NOT the 1.5 ohms. So around 5 volts should be good for a 1.5 ohm DC at 8 watts per coil. Because the square root of 24 (3 ohms times 8 watts) is about 5 (OK....4.898979485566356)
amp limits
SLR
Symbols on multimeters
What about:
mAh?
Series vs Parallel (or covered under DCC)
Battery stuff or link to Battery University.
Volts, Ohms, Watts, and Amps.
E-cigs introduce you to terms that you probably wouldn't use everyday without them. Yet, you need to understand some of them, in order to wade through the sites and options and understand the effect of your choices. This post discusses the electrical terms in particular; volts, ohms, watts and amps. The good news is...it isn't really that bad. The bad news is that it isn't a 2 second discussion.
The short answer is that if you have a Variable-Voltage (VV) or Variable Wattage (VW) device, you can just start low, dial it up, and make it work. No math required. Non-adjustable voltage PVs require you to select the proper ohm coil ahead of time.
However, if you want to UNDERSTAND how and why the ohms affect the heat, for example, that will take some work on your part. It's not too bad, but it's also something that you don't want to try to cram into a 2 minute reading. You may have to read this a couple of times. That's fine. Don't give up. If you really can't stand reading...skip to part 3.
Part 1 - coming to terms with it
OK let's get some terms straight first:
Volts = Electrical Pressure. Kind of like water pressure.
Ohms = Friction. Resistance to the flow of electricity. Without friction, we'd have no heat in our coils. Like a kink in a water hose.
Amps (amperes) = total electrons flowing past a point. Similar to the volume of water (# of molecules?) going past a point in the hose at one particular instant.
Watts = A measure of "work". Watts = Volts X Amps. How fast it could turn a water wheel.
Watts are kind of an "end-result". No work is done if there's no pressure. Also no work is done if there's no volume of water flowing. You have to have pressure and water flow to get an effective amount of water on the lawn from a sprinkler. High pressure with a very thin hose won't do it. Neither will no pressure with a fat fire-hose. You have to have volume and pressure at the same time. The constriction of a hose is a resistance (like ohms), and determines the flow rate for a given pressure.
All of these things are interrelated. If you change any one thing, the system as a whole is changed. In fact, if you know any two of the above variables, you can calculate the others. They are measurements for different aspects of a particular system. All pieces of the same puzzling phenomenon.
Volts, ohms, watts and amps are quantities that can be measured and related mathematically. That leads to the inevitable formulas....
Part 2 - Finally! Some math. Yay! (or OMG! I hate this stuff.)
Because volts, ohms, and amps are measurable quantities, someone took a lot of measurements of them and figured out how they all relate. The results of this relationship became "Ohm's Law" of electricity. The law was named after the German physicist Georg Ohm, who published them in the early 1800's. Thanks to James Prescott Joule there's also Joule's Law: Watts = Volts x Amps but we're getting ahead.
Now quantities measured need names for them. Feet, meters, pounds, grams are all units of measure. Some of the units of measure for electricity are defined above: Volts, ohms, watts, amps. We have abbreviations for them so we can use them in formulas. The bad news is that you'll see several versions of these abbreviations. The good news is that we'll try to tell you the common ones so you can substitute whatever version you like.
Abbreviations:
Volts = V = E = (Straight line with little dots under it symbol for DC voltage)
Ohms = R = Ω = Resistance
Amps = I = A
Watts = P = W = Power
It's very irritating when you see one set of formulas published here, and another set somewhere else that uses different letters or symbols. Your multi-meter (the tool used to measure these things) often uses a different set too. Yet we have to pick one set. No matter what we select, someone's not going to like it...depending on if they are a "purest" or of they are in the commonly-seen camp. We'll use V for volts, R for ohms (resistance), I for Amps (because A is used for something else except on multi-meters), and P for watts (Power).
OK, so this guy Ohm published a "law" that is stated in modern form as:
Amps = Volts ÷ Ohms or I = V ÷ R
Add in Joule's Law: Watts = Volts X Amps or P = VI
Mathematicians, having nothing better to do than math, re-arranged all this stuff and came up with a list of formulas
(note the X here means multiply...it's not a variable):Amps (I) = V ÷ R, also I = P ÷ V and I = Square-Root of (P ÷ R)
Volts (V) = I X R, also V = P ÷ I and V = Square-Root of (P X R)
Ohms (R) = V ÷ I, also R = V2 ÷ P and R = P ÷ I2
Watts (P) = V X I, also P = R X I2 and P = V2 ÷ R
OK. So the formulas are listed above. What does all this have to do with e-cigs?
Part 3 - Getting to the point, now that we have background and formulas.
You, a user of e-cigs, are basically juggling multiple variables related to electricity. Sure, there's other stuff too...e-juice VG/PG ratios, wicking, etc. but we're discussing electricity here. The point is that there's no ONE variable...there's always multiple things going on at once. Selecting a PV has electrical concerns too...for example the "amp limit" of the device. Swapping a carto out with different ohms means that you'll adjust the voltage (for VV stuff) or deal with the results for fixed-voltage stuff. VW adjusts voltage for you...like it or not.
To reiterate, you can't change one thing without it affecting the others somehow. So here's where we try to explain how what you do effects things. Also, note that this is not an e-cig safety thread. So we try to explain some things, but safety is another subject unto itself. Don't take this as gospel. We're trying to teach general concepts here.
Voltage...the Oomph factor
You have one of three types of PV's
1) Fixed voltage. They are "regulated" to a speific set voltage. They may dwindle below it before cutting out, but they are still "fixed" in that you can't adjust them. They are regulated though....electronic circuits inside attempt to make the voltage the same regardless of the battery charge. Some only do this when the battery is above the set voltage limit.
2) Variable voltage. Adjustable voltage (also adjustable wattage) e-cigs have circuitry to bump-up (boost) or regulate down (buck) battery voltage according to a dial that you set. Variable Wattage (VW) e-cigs read the resistance of the coil you've screwed onto the connector and calculate the voltage you need to acheive a desired wattage setting. So they adjust the voltage for you.
3) Follows battery voltage - ie two wires, a battery, and a connector. Vaping directly off the battery at whatever voltage it has at the moment. Typical for all-mechanical mods. Li-Ion (and that class of batteries including IMR) have a top voltage of about 4.2 volts but they drop quickly to about 3.7/3.6 volts and stay in that rage for most of the usable charge and then drop quickly below that to cut-off voltage.
Each of these types come in either swappable battery configurations (where you have a "cell" that you can remove) or internal battery configurations where you charge the whole unit somehow and cannot remove the battery from the electronics/mechanics.
How do you make a fixed voltage e-cig hotter or cooler? By selecting the proper ohm coil. It's the only "variable" that you can change. The voltage is fixed. And as we've learned above, if any two factors are known, all factors are set. So the heat will be P = V2 ÷ R (or Watts = Voltage squared divided by coil ohms) for a single coil. So if you want to vape at 8 watts, and you know the voltage of your fix-volt e-cig...use R = V2 ÷ P (voltage squared divided 8). A 3.7 volt e-cig needs 3.7 x 3.7 / 8 = 1.71125 ohms to get 8 watts. Of course, there's wiggle room. And in fact coil ohms vary a bit due to manufacturing variability. 2.0 ohms will work. 3.0 ohms is not that good. 1.5 ohms may even be a bit hot. On the other hand, some e-cigs are 3.4 volts (like the original authentic eGo) and they may do better at 1.5 ohms.
How do you make a VV, or VW e-cig hotter or cooler....by adjust the dial, of course! The difference is that with VW, it will "sense" the ohms of the coil that you have screwed on and calculate the proper voltage...assuming you don't fake it out with the dual-coil thing. More on DC (dual coil) stuff later. Due to differences in devices and coils, you may have to adjust VW a bit anyway. But it gets you into the ballpark regardless of what ohm coil you screw on.
So for regulated fixed voltage stuff, or for follow-battery-voltage stuff, you must select the proper ohms ahead of time...there's no adjustment for the voltage/wattage on the e-cig. Get it wrong, and it's too hot or too cool. It's not super picky though...there's a workable range of ohms within reason.
Wattage
You know wattage. It's like incandescent light-bulbs. More wattage = more energy used = hotter/brighter. It's the result of the voltage and the coil ohms per the formula above. Watts = heat for our purposes. Normal ranges are about 7-9 watts per coil. This is for "normal" coils. There are dual coils ...where the PV must supply double the current (amps) in order to keep the voltage high enough for two coils. Think of it like a two lane toll booth on a toll road allowing double the cars through at once. Electrons per second past a point = amps (current). So more amps are required for dual coils at any given voltage.
The watts for dual coils are, not surprisingly, doubled for the device as a whole. If each coil is 8 watts, you need to supply a dual coil with 16 watts total. This is why dual-coil users often run up against amp limits on their devices. The device exceeds it's expected amp draw and either signals a "short" or drops the voltage to compensate for lack of amps. It won't work as expected, if at all, unless your PV can supply the amps at whatever voltage you set.
For VW devices...just set the wattage. For VV only devices...calculate the voltage or just start low and adjust higher as needed. To calculate the voltage:
So for single coils: Try 7-9 watts as a ballpark/average. Let's say 8. So voltage = Square-Root of (P X R) = Square-Root of (8 X ohms)
For dual coils: double the ohms 1st. A 1.5 ohm dual coil is really two 3.0 ohm coils side-by-side on the same connector. So the voltage is calculated for 3.0 ohms, NOT the 1.5 ohms. So around 5 volts should be good for a 1.5 ohm DC at 8 watts per coil. Because the square root of 24 (3 ohms times 8 watts) is about 5 (OK....4.898979485566356
)amp limits
SLR
Symbols on multimeters
What about:
mAh?
Series vs Parallel (or covered under DCC)
Battery stuff or link to Battery University.
Howdy cowboy!
That is a goofy looking mouthpiece!
I like my vapor concentrated. I like those flat whistle tips the best and I never used drip tips on my cartos.
Take care of yourself--you've been through a major surgery. Hugs and continuous good wishes to you and Peggy!
Yeah, it's sort of strange looking as is, but if the entire PV was covered with a tobacco looking wrapper it would look like a medium size cigar. That is, one that is burned down to about this size, heheh:
I also like the flat whistle tips and used them on some of my earlier mods. However, they will not allow the large and slow moving airflow of my later ones. I direct inhale and actually breathe through the cartomizer for each draw.
Okay, okay. I'm taking care of myself. Was recently able to do away with with the leg bag that emptied my left kidney. Still have the tube in my back for it, but it can now empty into my bladder. Hope to get rid of it and the catheter in about a month.
lol! the one day i'm on the road first thing in the morning - well, middle of the night almost - and br pops in!
hugs to you and peggy! and if it takes a major overhaul you better get it done!
And popped in again. Where are you?
Good to see ya again, ya ol' hound dawg
I ain't no hound dawg. I'm a Wart Hog, heheh.
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