Burnt Rubber Taste From Rebuilt Kanger Coils

[Mark Howard]

I also have been having this issue. Everything I've tried yield the same result. I wonder if it is bc I've been reusing grommets that have already been burnt and the flavor now just resides in them no matter how good of a build I produce. Very frustrating, but determined to make coils for all of the PT heads in my jar.

 

[Vault]

I`ve rebuilt loads of these heads, mainly for Evods and have only recently come across the "burning grommet" syndrome.

This was an old grommet that had suffered some scorching in the past and had been used probably 20 times previously, I noticed the taste when I tested the draw without any juice in the tank so just as an experiment I soaked the grommet in alcohol overnight and the taste improved no -end, there was a slight hint still there but a definate improvement over what I was getting and this was "dry drawing" as well so I figure the worst of it was drawn out by the alcohol soak and won`t be noticed when the tank is juiced up.

Might be worth trying if you have any suspect grommets?

 

[MacTechVpr]

I wish I could chime in and say I have found a cure for the dreaded "burnt rubber" syndrome that seems to afflict some rebuilt PT heads but alas I have rebuilt somewhere around a dozen (between me, my wife and her friend) and still haven't experienced the burnt rubber.

I use a 1.85 mm piece of tool steel (I have a machine shop in the back garage and started with 2.0 mm which was too large for 2.0 mm Ekowool so I machined it down to 1.85) to make micro coils from 28 and 30 gauge kanthal then after heating to bright red with a butane torch and compressing the coils with a pair of tiny needle nose pliers I reinsert the tool steel, lay it in the head, pull the legs tight as I reassemble it then slide the steel out and work a piece of 2mm Ekowool into the coil. I shoot for 2.2 ohms then run them on a Galileo mechanical mod with a fresh battery. So far it's working and no burning.

On a Protank head both legs of the coil are in fact held in place with a rubber grommet. If the coil is wound wrong then the legs get hot and burn the grommet.

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I think both of you are right on. It's been months since I've had a burned grommet and the answer was simply that the Protank and other similar tanks require a much tighter, as in, precise build. After watching and reading about such builds and ultimately the contact coil (micro coil) by an assortment of very knowledgeable advance builders on ECF (and elsewhere) it became pretty obvious that malformed coils and termination were the cause. And factory builds are just as much susceptible as the simple ones I was doing following a lot of misguided instruction right here on this forum.

After months of research I found a great thread that pretty much summarized my conclusions and showed a pretty straightforward way to get it right…

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/tips-tricks/463771-protank-cotton-rebuild-way-i-do.html

There credit and links is given to some main threads on advance building by some of the folks I mention above. Also links to a slightly more advance thread on targeting resistance with your build, the roadmap to accurate results…

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/clearomizers/486794-protank-microcoil-discussion.html

I hope this info is helpful to those visiting this thread.

Good luck!

 

[MacTechVpr]

I also have been having this issue. Everything I've tried yield the same result. I wonder if it is bc I've been reusing grommets that have already been burnt and the flavor now just resides in them no matter how good of a build I produce. Very frustrating, but determined to make coils for all of the PT heads in my jar.

That may be. And it's hard to get it out. It does in time with washes. But you can get replacements and there is a possible silicone tubing alternative if Kanger doesn't release their new silicone insulator as a spare part. In the meantime…

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...tinky-grommet-replacement-4.html#post11334167

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...otank-2-replacement-parts-4.html#post11334005

Good luck!

 

[Mark Howard]

Thanks for the links. As soon as I can put down my drippers & RSST for long enough I will get some replacements, cleanings & alcohol soaks haven't helped (if that is the actual cause). The main reason I'm going to recoil my PT2s at this point is because I enjoy the building. Don't think I'll ever prefer them to my rbas.


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[ZNinja]

Hot legs. Without a wire welder I don't think there is any getting away from it other than building micro coils...which works but I don't care for the cotton in a protank. Drippers it is fine but in the protank I either get dry hits or I flood the coil...

 

[b0bl0blaw]

There was a thread that I cannot find now that talked about doubling back and twisting the legs on your coil to reduce the resistance of the legs. I thought it was a great idea but haven't tried it yet...

 

[aspl2000]

Anyone knows the different between building coil with ss mesh and without ss mesh plz


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[nmackan]

My friend use a needle together with silica then wrap the wire. take needle out and apply heat to your new silica and wire after all get red (You can use furnace) after that you build parts back.

 

[MacTechVpr]

There was a thread that I cannot find now that talked about doubling back and twisting the legs on your coil to reduce the resistance of the legs. I thought it was a great idea but haven't tried it yet...

A possibly useful measure. But it's an adjournment to the issue counselor. The problem is that the Protank and most clearomizers require tidy, tight builds to be effective. I spent months postponing the solution attempting adequate stop-gaps recommended in hundreds of threads. But there's no substitute for an efficient simple build of the head assembly. I posted two pointers above at #24 that demonstrate techniques to help the folks get on with it.

Check it out. Let's hear your arguments.

Quick way to solve this case.

Just sayin'.

 

[MacTechVpr]

Thanks for the links. As soon as I can put down my drippers & RSST for long enough I will get some replacements, cleanings & alcohol soaks haven't helped (if that is the actual cause). The main reason I'm going to recoil my PT2s at this point is because I enjoy the building. Don't think I'll ever prefer them to my rbas.


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Protank's including the Mini are quite good as Rip Trippers demonstrated and amazingly capable of huge power loads when built right. That's what I'm talkin' about. When done right they're special. And a Protank on a Sigelei slope tank is every bit as sexy as a Provari with the advantage of power management. They're hard to give up but gotta agree with you, drippers like the Immo blow you away.

Good luck!

 

[Mark Howard]

Protank's including the Mini are quite good as Rip Trippers demonstrated
Good luck!

Haha, that is exactly the build I've been doing on the PT coils! This is also why I suspected the reused grommets had been burned previously bc I was getting the burnt rubber taste.
My biggest remaining issue is finding that perfect size where it won't seep or flood, nor be too tight and give me dry hits. I climb by 4000-6000' in elevation every day going to work and back, so the pressure change may just be too much for any clearo tank to handle without issues. Ive read tons of threads on PTs and think it just is what it is.


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[MacTechVpr]

Haha, that is exactly the build I've been doing on the PT coils! This is also why I suspected the reused grommets had been burned previously bc I was getting the burnt rubber taste.
My biggest remaining issue is finding that perfect size where it won't seep or flood, nor be too tight and give me dry hits. I climb by 4000-6000' in elevation every day going to work and back, so the pressure change may just be too much for any clearo tank to handle without issues. Ive read tons of threads on PTs and think it just is what it is.


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I kept on using the burned grommets until recently as replacements became available. It took a while to wash the taste out of them. But since starting to do tight symmetrical builds most flooding ceased. It is a characteristic of the design though. You have a semi-pourous 510 connector architecture. Extremes of heat or low pressure can only make it worse.

Good luck hitting the high notes!

 

[IMFire3605]

You can do several things to help prevent, not stop entirely if you do something wrong, but prevent it is all.

1) Don't dry burn the coil at all, pulsing on a mech mod to check for hot spots is one thing, but a full on burn cycle, if your ohms are low will damage the grommet as you are getting now.
2) Get yourself a bracing tool for when re-coiling, keeping the brace in until the coil is seated and the legs are tightened up, this stops so many failures you wouldn't believe, especially rebuilding the newer Protank 3 heads
3) Download a couple of essential tools onto your smart phone, Androids I know you got "Vaper's Toolbox", that little app alone can tell you how much wire you will need for the coil itself and how many wraps given wire gauge and diameter of your wrapping/bracing tool
4) Someone mentioned above using Non-Resistance wire for the legs, good suggestion as the only heat is in the resistance wire for the coil, I've done this a couple times with redi-wire which is pre-cut and pre-joined, but to join resistance and non-resistance wire yourself you'll need a wire join welder or make one yourself

Being from your pictures you are using silica, suggested bracing tools you could look at, a paper clip or a #18 Yarn Darner (Yarn Threading needle), wrapping the wire tight, then snugging the wires tight before removing the clip or needle, the silica should expand to fill in the space the needle/clip occupied so you are not choking the wick down like in you pictures above.

 

[MacTechVpr]

On a Protank head both legs of the coil are in fact held in place with a rubber grommet. If the coil is wound wrong then the legs get hot and burn the grommet.

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You can do several things to help prevent, not stop entirely if you do something wrong, but prevent it is all.

Some good suggestions. Particularly any technique that helps stabilize the coil as you assemble somewhere low in the slot. But as you and catalina's both noted…if the coil is wound wrong, it's a band-aid IM. You gotta walk before you can fly. Ain't gonna happen winding on toothpicks and sewing needles. Not with any kind of consistency. And not for most clearo's. So yea, it's gonna happen. Don't ever dry fire that grommet. Not in a Protank or most clearo's. If it's a haphazard build.

Or, if newb's learn to wind to a metric such as a 8x30g on a 1/16" bit where the winding can have some predictable consistency, and they can be certain of the resistance exactly [@1.8Ω] they would then know they have a problem that needs correcting based on the resistance. One way or another, resistance risk or sloppy build.

I think you would agree. Don't take this is a criticism. It isn't. I'd just like to see a question before the advice. Like, what are you winding on? Lot of advice here on correcting what needn't be corrected.

I dry fire solid symmetrical assemblies on Kanger grommets all night and all day, when I build them. That is exactly when I want to see that hot leg. As I'm burning in that coil without a wick in it. Then I know I have a problem before I got the tank full of my favorite juice wondering whether I should have used resistance wire. I haven't burned one in months. Doesn't need to happen.

This all sounds and sounded to me far more complicated than it has to be. And it doesn't need to be. It's not rocket science. You just have to have some basic essentials which have been well understood for over a century. We're not reinventing the wheel here.

Just sayin'.

 

[TheSystemHasFailed]

It's simple, no long reads needed. You NEED to use NR wire for the "legs".

Why the heck do you think the pre-made coils have NR legs?!

I hate seeing all these re-build vids, from "trusted reviewers" and they never mention it. Very irresponsible.

 

[danny4x4]

It's simple, no long reads needed. You NEED to use NR wire for the "legs".

Why the heck do you think the pre-made coils have NR legs?!

I hate seeing all these re-build vids, from "trusted reviewers" and they never mention it. Very irresponsible.

You are correct, but for the average newcomer to recoiling, joining/twisting nr and r wires may be too troublesome. I know I would have given up if my first build involved nr and r wires.

A simpler work around may be to coil a proper microcoil. Properly done, the legs should not glow red hot. BUT, it doesn't mean the legs aren't hot. So there's still the possibly of burning the grommet.

Alternatively, you can check out this thread
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/clearomizers/490677-possible-stinky-grommet-replacement.html

I've just ordered some of the tubes and have no idea whether it solves the problem. But from the thread, it looks promising. However, like TheSystemHasFailed mentions, NR legs would be the best solution. In the interim, you can try the hose from eBay instead.

 

[edyle]

You are correct, but for the average newcomer to recoiling, joining/twisting nr and r wires may be too troublesome. I know I would have given up if my first build involved nr and r wires.

A simpler work around may be to coil a proper microcoil. Properly done, the legs should not glow red hot. BUT, it doesn't mean the legs aren't hot. So there's still the possibly of burning the grommet.

Alternatively, you can check out this thread
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/clearomizers/490677-possible-stinky-grommet-replacement.html

I've just ordered some of the tubes and have no idea whether it solves the problem. But from the thread, it looks promising. However, like TheSystemHasFailed mentions, NR legs would be the best solution. In the interim, you can try the hose from eBay instead.

or get premade nr-r-nr coil wire

$3.25 Pre-made Welded Wires - NR-R-NR (100-Pack) 100-pack - 0.18mm (33 AWG) / 2.2ohm at FastTech - Worldwide Free Shipping

 

[jammy]

Or you can get some replacement grommets Protank, Evod coil silicone direct replacement grommet seals x 10 FREE UK P&P | eBay which are silicone and will not give that rubber taste

 

[tombaker]

The burn taste on the rebuild is definitely the rubber grommet for the pin.

1. one way to fix or help the issue is to cut the lip off the end that gets pusshed back into the coil. If you do this and dry burn after the coil replacement, you should not smell rubber at all. Dry burn as a pulse, vs a long heat up also.

2. The replacement silicon grommet will solve the problem also. But they are very expensive for at about 60% of an entirely new coil fully built. The replacement silicon is too expensive by themselves, I don't blame the people selling them, because it such a low profit item, they have to sell them at some price that makes it worth their time.

3. Kanger has switched to silicon grommets on their New coils. There is tons of inventory out there with the older rubber ones, so if you mail order, you are not sure to get a new one. There may be some vendors you can ask to take a look. If you look at the new Kanger coil while still in the sealed package you can clearly see the frosty white transparant silicion vs the older rubber one that is not clear, and more of yellow color.

4. I bought from a local vendor where I was able to easily confirm the silicon without opening them. The 10 dollar for 5 local price was great all things considering.

Recommendation: So buy some new Kanger with Silicon, then keep on using the silicon on your rebuilds from there. The cutting off of the lip works well enough also, but the rubber is still there.

PS fingernail clippers work great for precision coil leads clipping