Ditto 2x. I have received nearly a dozen calls on this issue. When the most populated State in the USA wants to obliterate vaping we are in deep deep deep do do.
Who or what does the California's Department of Public Health report to?
California State Health Officer Ron Chapman protects cigarettes, issues report that lies about e-cigs
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Ditto 2x. I have received nearly a dozen calls on this issue. When the most populated State in the USA wants to obliterate vaping we are in deep deep deep do do.
Who or what does the California's Department of Public Health report to?
Obviously they have ZERO accountability. The brilliant organization of the tobacco control terrorist network ensured they can get away with anything.
The mighty dollar?
Seriously, they are in big trouble if smokers quit faster than assumptions built into tobacco bonds they sold. A lengthy read, but a very good one (via Grimm Green) - How Wall Street Tobacco Deals Left States With Billions in Toxic Debt - ProPublica
From Mr. Glantz:
talk about setting a low bar for 'world class'.
Another interesting tidbit:
Gee, a whopping 20% of the tax revenue goes to fund tobacco control. That leaves a lot of $$$ going into the general fund.
That revenue plus the decline in MSA payments creating a risk to their tobacco bonds = please keep smoking.
talk about setting a low bar for 'world class'.
Another interesting tidbit:
Gee, a whopping 20% of the tax revenue goes to fund tobacco control. That leaves a lot of $$$ going into the general fund.
That revenue plus the decline in MSA payments creating a risk to their tobacco bonds = please keep smoking.
Looks like CA DPH values life at $1990 a pop, since they just sold out 4 million smokers' lives for $7.9B in outstanding tobacco bonds.
How Wall Street Tobacco Deals Left States With Billions in Toxic Debt - ProPublica
Link to original full-size picture: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B8jWRjsCQAEbdJr.png:large
How Wall Street Tobacco Deals Left States With Billions in Toxic Debt - ProPublica
Link to original full-size picture: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B8jWRjsCQAEbdJr.png:large
This is significant - deserves it's own thread, imo.
"These securities, called capital appreciation bonds, or CABs, have since turned toxic. They amount to only a $3 billion sliver of the approximately $36 billion in tobacco bonds outstanding, according to a review of bond documents and Thomson Reuters data. But the nine states, three territories, District of Columbia and several counties that issued them have promised a whopping $64 billion to pay them off."
Smoke-free advocates and trial lawyers, to MSA, to junk bonds and likely to defaults as more smokers turn to ecigs
The 'tobacco bubble'.
First step in our propaganda?
Short and gets your attention, even makes a great headline. We can even back it up with facts unlike 90+% of the glANTZ BS we are fighting and it puts the real reason behind all the state crap we are fighting.
This is significant - deserves it's own thread, imo.
"These securities, called capital appreciation bonds, or CABs, have since turned toxic. They amount to only a $3 billion sliver of the approximately $36 billion in tobacco bonds outstanding, according to a review of bond documents and Thomson Reuters data. But the nine states, three territories, District of Columbia and several counties that issued them have promised a whopping $64 billion to pay them off."
Smoke-free advocates and trial lawyers, to MSA, to junk bonds and likely to defaults as more smokers turn to ecigs
Please feel free to start a new thread. I've got other significant news I'd like to share
Please feel free to start a new thread. I've got other significant news I'd like to share
I'll not be around for a while.....
I live in San Diego.
This is one of the safest place on earth.
And probably the best weather and one of the most beautiful.
There really aren't any earthquakes here.
I can't remember the last time anything ever fell off one of our shelves.
Having said that, a drought is the thing that worries me most.
Oh, and by the way, I just bought another 10 years worth of nicotine.
Thanks for the help Zoid!
Now the other 10 years worth that I bought a few years ago can go to my sister and brother-in-law.
I am pretty sure they haven't stocked up yet.
Thanks for the help Zoid!
Now the other 10 years worth that I bought a few years ago can go to my sister and brother-in-law.
I am pretty sure they haven't stocked up yet.
First step in our propaganda?
Short and gets your attention, even makes a great headline. We can even back it up with facts unlike 90+% of the glANTZ BS we are fighting and it puts the real reason behind all the state crap we are fighting.
Yes, and it's also quite delicious. Everyone who either bought or sold one of those bonds was betting against smokers. Smokers have been bluffing their way along with a pair of twos... and suddenly, get 2 more.
I think the way to address the $$$ shortfall is find everyone who had ANY part of the 'tobacco bubble,' and force them to make good on those bonds from their own private moneybags. Of which they have a great many. But make the buyers accept 50% of the intended value, since they were betting against smokers too.
A big juicy raspberry to ALL OF 'EM!!!!!!! LEECHES!!!
Andria
PS: I've always heard that the best revenge is to live well. And in our case... just TO LIVE. Neener to all those who intended to get rich because of our deaths.
It's a good angle. Just one point is technically a bubble implies an excessive asset valuation (i.e. housing bubble, stock bubble, treasury bond bubble). The "asset" here is effectively smokers. EDIT on reflection they "over valued" income from smokers so perhaps you could call it a bubble. Not sure
The issue I think, is more that they exchanged an absolutely risk free long term income intended to cover costs associated with smoking, for a large lump sum (by borrowing against future income) to spend immediately. At the same time they converted the settlement into a debt, and exposed their respective states to risks associated with having a large amount of debt. This borrowed money was often used for purposes that were absolutely nothing to do with smoking related healthcare costs. From the linked article it appears in some cases the risks greatly exceed the "rewards" and perhaps they were well and truly shafted by the investment banks. Of course it would be also be down to the states to carry out their own due diligence before entering into these contracts, as the banks obviously had a conflict of interest (they were getting paid extremely large fees for arranging them). One of the really obvious things to ask would be "what happens if smoking rates decline more than expected?". Same as when you take a variable mortgage you should be asking "what happens if interest rates rise?". Did they do enough due diligence? It seems unlikely.
As for names, maybe "tobacco debt time bomb"? Could make a good article... "The tobacco debt time bomb - why many states need smokers to keep smoking"
Further EDIT and here's details of all of California's securitized tobacco bonds - http://www.treasurer.ca.gov/cdiac/reports/tobacco.pdf
The issue I think, is more that they exchanged an absolutely risk free long term income intended to cover costs associated with smoking, for a large lump sum (by borrowing against future income) to spend immediately. At the same time they converted the settlement into a debt, and exposed their respective states to risks associated with having a large amount of debt. This borrowed money was often used for purposes that were absolutely nothing to do with smoking related healthcare costs. From the linked article it appears in some cases the risks greatly exceed the "rewards" and perhaps they were well and truly shafted by the investment banks. Of course it would be also be down to the states to carry out their own due diligence before entering into these contracts, as the banks obviously had a conflict of interest (they were getting paid extremely large fees for arranging them). One of the really obvious things to ask would be "what happens if smoking rates decline more than expected?". Same as when you take a variable mortgage you should be asking "what happens if interest rates rise?". Did they do enough due diligence? It seems unlikely.
As for names, maybe "tobacco debt time bomb"? Could make a good article... "The tobacco debt time bomb - why many states need smokers to keep smoking"
Further EDIT and here's details of all of California's securitized tobacco bonds - http://www.treasurer.ca.gov/cdiac/reports/tobacco.pdf
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While I personally find discussions dealing with the "money" side of this issue fascinating and enjoyable they are all of secondary concern when trying to persuade current smokers to try ecigs and dispel any concerns that current vapers may have about the landslide of negative press.
In this vein, Dr. Siegel refutes and clarifies the CA report in a rather detailed fashion and never says a word about politics, bonds, money, etc. IMHO, that's traction and persuasive!
"Even the author of the study stated most clearly that it was not designed to examine the efficacy of e-cigarettes for smoking cessation, and that it could not and should not be used for that purpose: "The recently published article by Dr. Katrina Vickerman and colleagues has been misinterpreted by many who have written about it. It was never intended to assess the effectiveness of the e-cig as a mechanism to quit."
"While the California DPH report relies upon a survey, an unpublished presentation, and the Vickerman paper, none of which were designed to determine the efficacy of electronic cigarettes for smoking cessation, there have been three clinical trials which were designed specifically to answer this question. Two were conducted by Dr. Riccardo Polosa and colleagues in Italy. One was conducted by Dr. Bullen and colleagues in New Zealand. These three studies are the best and most rigorous scientific information we have on the efficacy of electronic cigarettes."
Source: http://tobaccoanalysis.blogspot.com/2015/01/california-dph-report-on-e-cigs-is.html
In this vein, Dr. Siegel refutes and clarifies the CA report in a rather detailed fashion and never says a word about politics, bonds, money, etc. IMHO, that's traction and persuasive!
"Even the author of the study stated most clearly that it was not designed to examine the efficacy of e-cigarettes for smoking cessation, and that it could not and should not be used for that purpose: "The recently published article by Dr. Katrina Vickerman and colleagues has been misinterpreted by many who have written about it. It was never intended to assess the effectiveness of the e-cig as a mechanism to quit."
"While the California DPH report relies upon a survey, an unpublished presentation, and the Vickerman paper, none of which were designed to determine the efficacy of electronic cigarettes for smoking cessation, there have been three clinical trials which were designed specifically to answer this question. Two were conducted by Dr. Riccardo Polosa and colleagues in Italy. One was conducted by Dr. Bullen and colleagues in New Zealand. These three studies are the best and most rigorous scientific information we have on the efficacy of electronic cigarettes."
Source: http://tobaccoanalysis.blogspot.com/2015/01/california-dph-report-on-e-cigs-is.html
Article blasts anti-#vaping agitprop from CDPH and FDA
Feds starting to fume over e-cigs - The Orange County Register
Feds starting to fume over e-cigs - The Orange County Register
...which is why I've been an OC Register subscriber for years (and the only newspaper I subscribe to). They regularly have pro-vaping editorials with a libertarian bent like this... search for 'e-cigarttes' on their site to see more.
I live in San Diego.
This is one of the safest place on earth.
And probably the best weather and one of the most beautiful.
There really aren't any earthquakes here.
I can't remember the last time anything ever fell off one of our shelves.
Having said that, a drought is the thing that worries me most.
Yes, the weather... that's hard to step away from (especially you in San Diego, DC2... I love it down there).
We have beaches, mountains with snow (that you don't have to shovel), and deserts, all withing a few hours drive. Nowhere else in the country has that diversity.
Earthquakes... well, the La Habra quake last year rattled us pretty good (we are right at the epicenter, though). Aftershocks were the worst part of it, being so close we felt anything above a 1.5 magnitude (and felt them day and night for several days).
But....yes... the politics annoy and frustrate me endlessly. I guess anywhere you live has some price to pay....
Yeah, having lived in Orange County for a few years, I am definitely a huge fan of the Orange County Register.
They used to deliver free copies of the Los Angeles Times to my doorstep on occasion.
And I would use them when we went camping to start our fires.
Very nice! About all that newspaper is good for, in my humble opinion.
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