Call to Action or not?? Knoxville, Tennessee

[TennDave]

First of all, I work for the school system here. I'm not a teacher, but I'm expected to follow the same rules as them.

I heard that on the news: Knoxville, Tennessee | Knoxville News and Weather | Home Page they had on at 6PM that the school board voted to include e-cigs in their on-campus tobacco ban. There will be a repeat of the news at 11 which I plan to watch. I do not know how the news was portrayed as there is nothing on their website as of now. Here is the final policy the school board voted in: http://96.4.96.144/docs/2012/RS/20120201_128/1156_GAMA Smoking Tobacco 2nd Reading final.pdf I had no idea that this was coming down the way and neither did my fellow co-workers who vape. Several go outside, behind the building and vape during breaks. One has completely quit smoking with the help of e-cigs. All of them, I've turned on to vaping and away from analogs. They do not smoke cigarettes anymore. In 2008 the school board banned tobacco on campus period- this was when we all started "sneaking" smokes or walking across the street to smoke (visible from classroom windows) as opposed to hiding behind the cafeteria where we were not visible. They added e-cigs to the original ban tonight. Here is the original 2008 policy but with the addition of the red lettering that was just added tonight: http://96.4.96.144/docs/2012/RS/20120201_128/1156_GAMA%20Smoking%20Tobacco%202nd%20Reading.pdf
I personally understand not having anything "visible" for students, etc. to see- even e-cigs, but no place to vape at all (not even your own car with tinted windows), I have an issue with. Most of our schools also have a policy that once you're in the building (even during your 30 minute lunch break) you cannot leave the building...so from 7:45 until at least 3:30 (leaving time), you are "locked in" at your school and cannot leave...so with the new policy, there is no vaping allowed at all- I guess the only option for most is to continue to "sneak" somewhere and vape, chancing being fired or using NRT's like patches, gums, etc., as SNUS and other "tobacco" products are also prohibited.

Your thoughts please on what to do...what not to do. Any of us who "stand up" against the regime in this are asking to be reprimanded for sure, and possibly fired. I guess we live in a totalitarian world these days. It would be awesome if folks, especially local folks unrelated to the system could voice their opinions.

If and when there is such a "forum" to do so, I'll put up a link.

 

[TennDave]

Btw, the TCA (Tennessee Code Annotated) listed as reference is the state laws.
Nowhere in the two cited at the bottom of the page has to do with electronic cigarettes- but it does have to do with:
1. Where "smoking" is prohibited.
2. About posting of "No Smoking" signs

So, they have included electronic cigarettes to be the same as "smoking" in their school board policy.

Any takers- is this best left to rest or is there ANYTHING that can be done here?
Of course, this is plain ignorance of the e-cigs...or is it? Is this the ANTI's twisting of the arm again??

Found the video of the news: About 30 seconds into it: http://www.wbir.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=203535

 

[Hottody]

I understand your delema, as vaping seems to be a really good alternative to smoking. My personal opinion is this should not be a issue, but I believe the concern is that vaping somehow appears to be elicit! Vaping is still not understood by the general public, and although we know it does not pose the same health hazards, vaping creates clouds of vapor that still has potential to invade others air space.

This is a difficult issue and it certainly will require someone with guts to address the issue! I would do a google search and see how others may have handled this issue with their school systems or government agencies! Until then I would simply abide by the rules unless your not concerned about being reprimanded or fired!

 

[Hottody]

I understand your delema, as vaping seems to be a really good alternative to smoking. My personal opinion is this should not be a issue, but I believe the concern is that vaping somehow appears to be elicit! Vaping is still not understood by the general public, and although we know it does not pose the same health hazards, vaping creates clouds of vapor that still has potential to invade others air space.

This is a difficult issue and it certainly will require someone with guts to address the issue! I would do a google search and see how others may have handled this issue with their school systems or government agencies! Until then I would simply abide by the rules unless your not concerned about being reprimanded or fired!

 

[TennDave]

Thanks- I agree with you...but even "stealth vaping" as I know others have done (not invading other's space at all) is frowned on here. I was about to post on the website's "comments" section but as soon as I saw that I had to log into facebook and reveal my identity, I stopped- but others who are unrelated to the school system could comment. Here is their link...scroll to the bottom of this page to comment: Knox Board of Educ. approves changes to magnet programs | wbir.com

Here was going to be my response- you can use it if you wish:
I feel sorry for the teachers of Knox County Schools. I am sure that there were electronic cigarette users who have been able to use these devices to quit smoking and were using them during their short breaks to stay off of cigarettes (and not in eye-sight of students). As I have never heard of this being a problem in the schools. In reality, e-cigs have been 80% effective compared to the 2-5% of the patches, gums, etc. sold by pharmaceutical companies (which the schools allow), but more and more governments organizations are classifying e-cigs to be the same as real cigarettes, WHICH THEY ARE NOT!! E-cigs emit water vapor and no second hand smoke, thus by definition, are not harmful to anyone around them. A quick google search and this information is easily found. Most of the government organizations (like Knox County Schools) that have classified e-cigs to be the same as combustible tobacco cite that the FDA has not taken a stance on this, which is the basis of their decision, but why should the FDA? They are funded by research money by the same pharmaceutical companies who are losing big bucks because of the e-cigs. E-cig using teachers who won’t be able to use them during their work hours will be even more stressed on their job! You would think that there are more important issues for the board to consider. What about obese kids, those whose parents don’t take care or students who refuse to learn, despite wonderful teaching strategies, proven methods and the best efforts of the teachers, not to mention the new evaluations that puts pressure on these teachers who have essentially lost their tenure. Shame on the school board to include e-cigarettes and other smokeless dissolvables in their definition of “smoking.” Decisions like this propagate misinformation to all and especially those who might have quit smoking because now, they will see e-cigarettes as dangerous, not the viable option that they really are. The end result is that we will continue to have tobacco related deaths in America- deaths that can be avoided.

 

[Sundrinkr]

I sympathize with you Dave, but have no advice for getting the policy changed. School systems are autocratic, ramming through whatever rules they want, frequently with no regard to the employees. I would imagine this rule got put into place because of students, not adults. It still stinks. I think you're right not to identify yourself because you might become a target in this era of downsizing. My suggestion would be to stealth vape where and when able. That is doable. Not what you want, but doable.

 

[TennDave]

Thanks Sundrinkr- I'm just keeping a low profile... but my friend on facebook posted for me! Unfortunately hers is the only post there. If anyone's on FB, please post and let them know that this still isn't right- I could imagine a world, that if the public was better informed- of places away from kids that educators could go to vape. Oh well.
Here's the link again to the TV site and the comment about vaping: Knox Board of Educ. approves changes to magnet programs | wbir.com

 

[TennDave]

I just did a google search and e-cigs are being classified as "smoking tobacco" all over the country.
I understand not doing it in front of kids, but this bans them from all campuses (and by staff, even if not in front of students) in almost every case: Google
I wonder if the FDA or CDC sent out mass mailings to all school districts across the country?

 

[TennDave]

Here's what's happening all over the nation- just a sampling of a recent school board decision: Missoula County Public Schools policy bans 'e-cigarettes'
I'm not saying that anything should be done about this- just curious what others' takes on this is.
I'm finding out that the FDA/CDC and in the case of this state, their OPI has gotten a hold of school districts to tell them that because PV's could be gateways to smoking real cigarettes, they need to be banned. In a very subtle and effective way, I'm afraid that this way of thinking is brainwashing people and will generalize into the larger population. Anyway- this is a head's up for everyone. We might be winning some battles in the "Adult Arena," but these young people will grow up to be adults and it will be in their mind-set that e-cigs are dangerous... And, I worry about the "self-fulfilling prophecy" effect of how this "foot-in-the-door" approach will swarm over us as adult vapors in our own private lives. Once again, the losers are those who could have switched from smoking to e-cigs but won't because they already think that they are the same as smoking. I really don't know how to combat this...and it makes me very sad.

 

[Off Topic]

I know of a woman who was prescribed e-cigs by her doctor. I don't know the internal politics of your job, but if you had a script from a doctor requiring this device...... It might not save your job if you get caught stealthing, but it would give you something to fight with.

Tough call.

 

[kristin]

This rule doesn't just add e-cigarettes, it bans the use of ALL tobacco products. That would include lozenges, strips and snus, which are nearly impossible to detect. How can they tell the difference between a Nicorette mini and a tobacco Ariva? How can they tell if you have either in your mouth?

It could be a valid argument that because they cannot enforce this ban for smokeless/dissolvable users, they are unfairly singling out only people who use visible tobacco products, while giving a free pass to oral tobacco product and habitual nicotine product users. But if this is already passed and you are afraid that speaking out could realistically result in job loss, it's really not worth it. Pick up some Ariva, Stonewall or snus for work because, well...I just told you why earlier.

 

[TennDave]

Thanks kristin- yes, it's already passed (second reading by our school board). No one knew about it though- not even a supportive principal in one of my schools. She just shook her head- doesn't want to have to enforce this one, but it will be expected of her. Yes, I've been thinking of getting some of those dissolvables. Any recommendation on which tastes the best or least offensive?

 

[kristin]

I bought some of the Ariva Java flavor just to try out. My theory is some people who find "something missing" with e-cigarettes would do well to supplement with a dissolvable or snus. My husband uses snus with his e-cig and that is how he was finally able to quit traditional cigarettes, but women would tend to find lozenges and strips more appealing. Anyhow, I wanted to be able to tell other ladies what they were like so I had my husband pick some up for me from a tobacco store where he gets his non-Camel snus locally. Many of the dissolvables are only available in limited markets right now, but Ariva and Stonewall have been out quite a while and may be easier to find. From my understanding, Stonewall is a much higher nicotine content than Ariva (about 4.5 mg of nicotine versus 1.5 in Ariva.) I found the Ariva to be pleasant tasting (much better than Nicorette gum - never tried Nicorette mini lozenges) and quite strong compared to my 10mg Nhaler High Voltage Octane Mochaccino. (I like coffee flavors, if you couldn't tell, lol.) The other day all of my equipment decided to either malfunction or die on me and I used a couple Ariva instead. I missed the vapor, but it did tide me over. They aren't cheap up here in the Northwoods, though! Snus is much cheaper - especially online. (Unfortunately, Wisconsin has some of the highest taxes on smokeless tobacco products in the US.) So, just try some and see what you like - they come in all sorts of flavors!