Calling all people with background in the insurance industry...

[DC2]

Over the years I have seen many threads about vaping and insurance.

A lot of people say they will mark that they are not a tobacco user, because they are not lying as far as they are concerned.
Many people say they will go nicotine free to beat any tests for nicotine, and then start using nicotine again.

I have seen insurance industry folks respond in such threads many times, and usually they say these are very bad ideas.
But I have also seen at least one insurance industry person say not to worry, any denial of claims would not stand up in court.

So I am hoping we can get all the insurance folks to congregate here and come to a conclusion?

 

[klynnn]

I would bet money that smokers will be screwed no matter what. It is an easy source of revenue just like they will go after people's weight next. Some of these people may live to regret the nanny state before it's over

 

[stevegmu]

I would bet money that smokers will be screwed no matter what. It is an easy source of revenue just like they will go after people's weight next. Some of these people may live to regret the nanny state before it's over

Smoking and being overweight are the top reasons behind many health issues. Of course smokers and obese people should pay more. Insurance isn't a charity. Should people who have accidents, tickets and DUIs on their driving record pay more for their car insurance? Yes.

 

[traderljp]

I was reading a newspaper article a month or so ago that detailed how, under Obamacare, prices for insurance would not be affected by a person's preexisting conditions. The only thing that would really increase someones premium would be if they are a smoker...and that the increase for smokers would be steep.

I remember thinking about how they could test for this and what a person's responsibility would be as far as divulging their smoking/vaping habits. DC2's question is important and I would love to know more about this as well.

 

[klynnn]

I agree but why would you cut off any means they have to keep them from switching to a better option by banning it. Get the picture.

 

[vjc0628]

the gov is tying Ins companies hands,
Making them except people with cancer and heart conditions with no rate up as of 2014
and allowing them to charge for nicotine and weight
I don't think they will care if ecigg was a miracle drug they are going to take what they can get

 

[DC2]

Well, this is going nowhere fast....

 

[ScottP]

I was reading a newspaper article a month or so ago that detailed how, under Obamacare, prices for insurance would not be affected by a person's preexisting conditions. The only thing that would really increase someones premium would be if they are a smoker...and that the increase for smokers would be steep.

I remember thinking about how they could test for this and what a person's responsibility would be as far as divulging their smoking/vaping habits. DC2's question is important and I would love to know more about this as well.

First due to that "preexisting condition clause" EVERYONE's insurance will likely skyrocket anyway. On the nicotine bit, when your doctor's file the claim to get paid if there is any indication that you were a smoker they can deny the claim and cancel your policy. Still that is small potatoes to what will likely be the largest payout of your life...you life insurance policy to your family. They WILL do an autopsy and toxicology. If you paid non smoking premiums and had nicotine in your system and black lungs....guess what...you just screwed your family because they aren't getting a dime.

 

[dr g]

Smoking and being overweight are the top reasons behind many health issues. Of course smokers and obese people should pay more. Insurance isn't a charity. Should people who have accidents, tickets and DUIs on their driving record pay more for their car insurance? Yes.

Then again, that defeats the purpose of insurance.

 

[spegtoast]

Well DC.. Great topic. This has crossed my mind and was very interested in reading some feedback from people in the insurance world. Maybe this is a good topic also for the CASAA lobbiest. They may be having conversations with Insurance companies regarding the fact that having nicotine in our system does not mean we use tobacco products.

 

[ScottP]

I come up for my annual renewal in October or November, I plan on talking to them about it all then.

 

[vernhall]

Having 30+ years experience in the Ins industry I'd say it all depends on the question(s) asked on the policy application... There is a difference between 'do you, or have you ever, used tobacco products' and 'do you, or have you ever, used nicotine products'... There is also the question of how the 'pre-existing condition' clause in your particular policy is worded... With insurance it's always about the language and its interpretation - always!

 

[ut1205]

The answer is the same for all theses types of threads. "Follow the Money" Vaping OK = less premium dollars, vaping not OK = government sponsored subsidy for the insurance companies. Vaping OK = no Federal, State, and Local tax revenue........
You don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure out this one.

I also question the validity of tobacco users or overweight people spending more health care dollars. If we have problems, we tend to die quickly. We don't hang around till we are 90 milking the system with every little ache and pain on a daily basis.

 

[Coastal Cowboy]

Before signing on the bottom line of your insurance policy app or renewal, go see a doctor who can order a blood test for nicotine and cotinine. Cotinine is the most prevalent metabolite of nicotine and lasts longer in the body than nicotine.

Since nicotine is always present in the body (no one who eats vegetables will ever test zero), some level of cotinine will exist as well. Levels below 10ng/ml indicate no tobacco use. Levels between 10ng and 100ng indicate passive exposure (secondhand smoke). Levels above 100ng indicate stronger passive exposure or light tobacco use. Above 300ng and you are a smoker.

Menthol use delays the metabolization of nicotine, and cotinine, so menthol users will be at higher risk of tripping the breaker, so to speak.

African Americans also consistently test for cotinine than Caucasians.

Next is the insurance app/renewal question. Refer to vernhall's post about the difference between tobacco use vs nicotine use. Choose your answer carefully.

 

[vjc0628]

Then again, that defeats the purpose of insurance.

In what way?

 

[bluecat]

Smoking and being overweight are the top reasons behind many health issues. Of course smokers and obese people should pay more. Insurance isn't a charity. Should people who have accidents, tickets and DUIs on their driving record pay more for their car insurance? Yes.

What about people who sky dive, snorkel or just all around adventurous. Those that live near crocs and snakes. People that are clumsy or have a medical disability.

I started smoking at 19. I am 50 ish. I have been to the doc 10 times since then. 7 of those times was for sports related injuries.

 

[bluecat]

The answer is the same for all theses types of threads. "Follow the Money" Vaping OK = less premium dollars, vaping not OK = government sponsored subsidy for the insurance companies. Vaping OK = no Federal, State, and Local tax revenue........
You don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure out this one.

I also question the validity of tobacco users or overweight people spending more health care dollars. If we have problems, we tend to die quickly. We don't hang around till we are 90 milking the system with every little ache and pain on a daily basis.

It's the same as taxing. If they can tax or charge more for the "evils" in this world they will. Now healthcare and government merging... future looks dim. Heck the yahoo's in Washington can't even get education sorted out. Bush's no child left behind was an utter failure.... Obama's Core will be an utter failure.

Sad thing we keep voting the dang people back in office. Give me some dang term limits on the house and senate.

 

[TyPie]

I agree but why would you cut off any means they have to keep them from switching to a better option by banning it. Get the picture.

KLYNN,
PLEASE....PLEASE stop posting things that make so much SENSE. The talking heads at the FDA will just blow a fuse if exposed to this line of thinking and reasoning!!

 

[ut1205]

What about people who sky dive, snorkel or just all around adventurous. Those that live near crocs and snakes. People that are clumsy or have a medical disability.

I started smoking at 19. I am 50 ish. I have been to the doc 10 times since then. 7 of those times was for sports related injuries.

I wasn't going to mention this but I started working at 14, smoking and 18, and retired at 63. I used exactly 4 sick days in those 49 years of working. None of them smoking related.

 

[bluecat]

I wasn't going to mention this but I started working at 14, smoking and 18, and retired at 63. I used exactly 4 sick days in those 49 years of working. None of them smoking related.

Every day we live we die a little more. We are human. We aren't made to live for ever.... well some like to change that fact... advances in science are the reason we are living longer.. living longer means more $ for medical.. which means more $ for drugs and insurance.

What I see my better halfs family pill cases. Each of them must take 30 pills a day. It is really sad.

When I talked to the insurance rep.... they didn't know what vaping was.... basically they said if it has nicotine in it they consider it smoking. That was a year ago.