Canadian Cancer Society Jumping on the Antz Band Wagon :(

[mekks]

http: //w ww .newswire. ca/en/story/1222655/the-canadian-cancer-society-s-lab-tests-and-exclusive-survey-electronic-cigarettes-have-misleading-labels-and-are-gaining-popularity-among-youths (remove the spaces to make the link work, broken link for junk science, no google juice for them)

Its bad enough Health Canada takes the old stance the FDA did prior to being challenged.
The only part of the quote below that doesn't bother me is banning it from minors...

"So, the CCS wants the government to include a provision to regulate electronic cigarettes in the tobacco Act to:

• Ban their sale to minors
• Control their advertising/promotion
• Regulate product ingredients and emissions
• Ban electronic cigarettes from being smoked in public places where tobacco is not allowed "

Is there an Canadian counterpart to CASAA, that is actively organizing to address the issues here for the consumer?

 

[mekks]

and its slowing going out to other sites....
http: // ckom. com/story/study-finds-nicotine-canadian-e-cigarettes/131924 (remove spaces to make the link work)

 

[Tache]

CASSA has members in Canada too. Usually the calls to action are for meetings around legislative bans and such. It's us individual vapers that need to send letters to the agencies and/or put comments in the online news stories. You could forward the link to Elaine Keller (vocalek) to see if they can send out a call.

It would be helpful to have an accurate english translation of the actual study (e.g. not just a "google translate"). I can read and pretty much understand it, but I'm not fully bilingual. Anyone else here fluent in both languages?

http://
Institut national de santé publique du Québec (INSPQ)
pdf/publications/1691_CigarElectro_EtatSituation.pdf

 

[mekks]

I spoke with Elaine on the forums today and she was under the impression our group was in the process of setting something like this up, I have emailed the contact she gave me. As the only one I can find is ECTA which seems more industry focused then consumer focused, at least that is the impression I was left with from their site. If I am wrong please feel free to correct me.

 

[Katmandu]

There is a group that just formed a few short months ago - CAVR Canadian Advocating Vapers Rights. mekks I don't know if you have facebook because right now that's where they are - they don't have a website just yet.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/canadiansadvocatingvapersrights/

Taking a fast read on the page it appears that they are already aware of this and have contacted the CCS.

 

[Battlelance]

"So, the CCS wants the government to include a provision to regulate electronic cigarettes in the Tobacco Act to:

• Ban their sale to minors
• Control their advertising/promotion
• Regulate product ingredients and emissions
• Ban electronic cigarettes from being smoked in public places where tobacco is not allowed "

I'll get flack for this I'm sure...

Can't say I disagree with that list. Minors shouldn't have access to nicotine much the same way as they shouldn't have access to alcohol, ditto on the advertising (we don't want TV ads showing teens using PVs), ingredient and emission regulation isn't a bad thing either for safety sake and purely as a respect thing you shouldn't be blowing huge clouds of vapor in someones face at a restaurant, sitting in a subway, or on an airplane (this would be mostly up to municipal regulation, not federal, except for airlines)

The only downside would be ingredient and emission regulation, in that the cost of having juice analyzed would be prohibitive to most retail homebrewers. Then again, one could argue costs don't outweigh the safety aspect of it (none of us would put our kids in a $30 black market car seat and hope for the best).

Anyway, it makes for interesting discussion.

 

[Projectguy]

CASSA has members in Canada too. Usually the calls to action are for meetings around legislative bans and such. It's us individual vapers that need to send letters to the agencies and/or put comments in the online news stories. You could forward the link to Elaine Keller (vocalek) to see if they can send out a call.

It would be helpful to have an accurate english translation of the actual study (e.g. not just a "google translate"). I can read and pretty much understand it, but I'm not fully bilingual. Anyone else here fluent in both languages?

http://
Institut national de santé publique du Québec (INSPQ)
pdf/publications/1691_CigarElectro_EtatSituation.pdf

I read the preamble and did not bothering opening the document because its almost a reprint of all the previous garbage but the is a bright light in Quebec in the form of La Presse article that cites all of the positive studies that have come out lately La cigarette électronique aussi efficace que le timbre pour arrêter le tabac | Nouvelles

 

[Kagey K]

Now that we have some doctors on our side publically supporting ecigs I don't think that canada has to be worried. Watch the Sept 9 national at about 17 minutes....

 

[Kagey K]

IMO if doctors are calling them cessation devices, they should be moved to the top of the food chain.... Especially if the numbers add up, like they say they do. Stop this backburner .... and make a Canadian claim. Imperial tobacco stepped up with thier Master mix 100% tobacco and a weird plastic filter. When is enough, enough?

I'd like to see the steps Imperial went through to make the claim that Master Blend is a better cigarette.

 

[Tache]

Could you provide a link to that please.

 

[Concat]

"Most of the time, they are flavoured to make them more attractive to youth"

Seriously, I hate journalism like this. No, they do not. They are flavoured because humans like flavours. It's a revelation, I know.


"They are highly publicized and "renormalize" smoking, which risks diminishing the gains made in the fight against tobacco"

Again, no they don't. It's not smoking. That sentence makes it seem like ecigs are increasing tobacco use.

 

[mekks]

I'll get flack for this I'm sure...

Can't say I disagree with that list. Minors shouldn't have access to nicotine much the same way as they shouldn't have access to alcohol, ditto on the advertising (we don't want TV ads showing teens using PVs), ingredient and emission regulation isn't a bad thing either for safety sake and purely as a respect thing you shouldn't be blowing huge clouds of vapor in someones face at a restaurant, sitting in a subway, or on an airplane (this would be mostly up to municipal regulation, not federal, except for airlines)

The only downside would be ingredient and emission regulation, in that the cost of having juice analyzed would be prohibitive to most retail homebrewers. Then again, one could argue costs don't outweigh the safety aspect of it (none of us would put our kids in a $30 black market car seat and hope for the best).

Anyway, it makes for interesting discussion.

No flack from me on this, can understand and agree with what your saying. What worries me is if they approach from the extreme vision of the Antz that would actually give big tobacco and pharma the upper hand, that would be why I am more concerned on the remainder of the list. Maybe I should have clarified that before..lol. There wasn't enough detail on the news release to know for sure if they will take a reasonable approach to it.

 

[mekks]

There is a group that just formed a few short months ago - CAVR Canadian Advocating Vapers Rights. mekks I don't know if you have facebook because right now that's where they are - they don't have a website just yet.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/canadiansadvocatingvapersrights/

Taking a fast read on the page it appears that they are already aware of this and have contacted the CCS.

I saw someone from there comment on one of the Canadian news articles and tried to google CAVR with no luck, ty for this post its going save me more searching.

Also managed to source out the email for one of the Dr's quoted in another Canadian article from CTV - BC to send him a list of research Elaine had send me along with the newest study. Never know who will be the right person to get the correct info to As I noticed the CTV comments would no approve my post with the link to the new study...buggers.

 

[mekks]

Just got a reply from that Dr. next day.. nice. I understand the health community fears, and honestly its why more of us need to speak up. As we all know a switch from tasty vapes to nasty tasting cigs is highly unlikely and the majority of us also agree with age restrictions. His reply below...

"Thanks for your message, Chris. And congratulations to you and your husband on quitting smoking. My "day" job is running a smoking cessation clinic and hearing of people quitting is always appreciated.

On the subject specifically of e-cigarettes, the number of studies available are growing literally every day. There is no doubt in my mind that individual risk is dramatically decreased by switching, and though some studies are suggesting that the product may carry some risk, there is clearly no comparison with traditional cigarettes.

But!! The major fear of people who work in public health really relates to what may happen at a population level. So by that I mean, will there be unintended consequences when these products really arrive on the market (which they will, for sure). For example, will a whole new population of children enter the "nicotine market" via the apparently safe e-cigarette? These maybe kids who would never have considered smoking but some may then graduate to traditional cigarettes via the "gateway" of e-cigarttes. Will there be a population of smokers who would otherwise have quit because of smoke-free restrictions who are now able to "dual-use"...e-cgarettes at work and traditional cigarettes at home? Will the reappearance of public smoking behaviour (of the e-cigarette) "renormalize" all smoking behaviour?

When you also add the fact the big tobacco is now in the game, maybe we are right to be fearful of where the big picture is going.

So congratulations on your personal success but watch this space! I think there will be a long, controversial debate about this subject but that discussion is not intended to be critical of those who have switched. It is simply a thoughtful response to potentially the biggest development in tobacco for decades.

Milan Khara"

 

[Kagey K]

Could you provide a link to that please.

Yeah here it is sorry about the double post, though I edited not reported the other day. It's at the 17 minute mark during health matters. Global National: Sep 9 | Watch GlobalNews Videos

 

[mekks]

Now that we have some doctors on our side publically supporting ecigs I don't think that canada has to be worried. Watch the Sept 9 national at about 17 minutes....

I wish that was true, however the states has many Health professionals publicly supporting e-cigs. And unfortunately this is happening in areas there.

Seal Beach Approves Moratorium on E-Cigarette Vendors | KTLA 5
Seal Beach News |Seal beach news|seal beach local news|seal beach politics|seal beach sports|seal beach local business

 

[Kagey K]

I wish that was true, however the states has many Health professionals publicly supporting e-cigs. And unfortunately this is happening in areas there.

Seal Beach Approves Moratorium on E-Cigarette Vendors | KTLA 5
Seal Beach News |Seal beach news|seal beach local news|seal beach politics|seal beach sports|seal beach local business

Yes but previously, we weren't allowed to use the word cessation device, now a doctor is calling it that. I realize that it opens up a new can of worms, but the lid has been popped. Also Canadian rules are a bit different then US rules (even if they mostly just follow suit). There isn't the same population nor jurisdictions in Canada.

I for one think it is time Canada take charge and look into the possible benefits of ecigs and be the forward movers on this one topic. We follow the US so much, but every now and then we get a head of the curve on them and this should be one such time. IMO

 

[Kagey K]

Just got a reply from that Dr. next day.. nice. I understand the health community fears, and honestly its why more of us need to speak up. As we all know a switch from tasty vapes to nasty tasting cigs is highly unlikely and the majority of us also agree with age restrictions. His reply below...

"Thanks for your message, Chris. And congratulations to you and your husband on quitting smoking. My "day" job is running a smoking cessation clinic and hearing of people quitting is always appreciated.

On the subject specifically of e-cigarettes, the number of studies available are growing literally every day. There is no doubt in my mind that individual risk is dramatically decreased by switching, and though some studies are suggesting that the product may carry some risk, there is clearly no comparison with traditional cigarettes.

But!! The major fear of people who work in public health really relates to what may happen at a population level. So by that I mean, will there be unintended consequences when these products really arrive on the market (which they will, for sure). For example, will a whole new population of children enter the "nicotine market" via the apparently safe e-cigarette? These maybe kids who would never have considered smoking but some may then graduate to traditional cigarettes via the "gateway" of e-cigarttes. Will there be a population of smokers who would otherwise have quit because of smoke-free restrictions who are now able to "dual-use"...e-cgarettes at work and traditional cigarettes at home? Will the reappearance of public smoking behaviour (of the e-cigarette) "renormalize" all smoking behaviour?

When you also add the fact the big tobacco is now in the game, maybe we are right to be fearful of where the big picture is going.

So congratulations on your personal success but watch this space! I think there will be a long, controversial debate about this subject but that discussion is not intended to be critical of those who have switched. It is simply a thoughtful response to potentially the biggest development in tobacco for decades.

Milan Khara"

I will double post here only because I didn't see this post when I replied to the other.

My g/f and I both used to smoke and smoked around our kids. Now we have switched to vaping.

When I started smoking both of my parents did before me for many years, and they took the attitude that if they smoke they can't stop me from smoking or it would be hypocritical. Now that I am vaping if my kids show interest I may let them vape (not sure) but it will be a placebo. Tell them that they are vaping nicotine while vaping 0 all of the time.

So now it's truth be told time, Do you want your kids smoking? Vaping? or Abstaining? and what happens when that plan goes wrong?

 

[xxThr4sh3rxx]

This is not good! I am going to be sending a letter to my MP / MPP and advising him that I love vaping whilst playing pool at the bar waaay too much! I'm too young to have enjoyed smoking in a bar its not fair! lol

 

[Steakjuice]

Hmm. I actually have no problem with them regulating ingredients, as all e-juice manufacturers here are essentially working off the honor system. No way to really verify what they're using in their juices without seeing it with our own eyes and even then, anyone could switch to lower-quality ingredients at any time as long as it doesn't impact flavor. I do not have a problem with not being able to smoke indoors at public venues, either, but it's an understandable matter of debate for others who do.