Canadian doctor presents eloquent argument in favor of ecigs to the Health Ministry

[DrMA]

Notable Canadian cardiac surgeon, Dr. Gopal Bhatnagar presented these materials to the Canadian Health Minister on November 6, 2014.

Report: http://www.180smoke.ca/info/wp-cont...-Bhatnagar-Minister-Of-Health-Canada-HESA.pdf
Powerpoint Slides: http://www.180smoke.ca/info/wp-cont...sentation-E-Vaporizers-E-Cigarettes.comp_.pdf

 

[Lessifer]

I only read through the slides so far, but it looks pretty fair and balanced. Not sure why he wants to limit bottle sizes to 10ml though. Good find!

 

[Stosh]

Well written and well argued presentation, from a medical professional. Gotta love it!!

I do have a couple small disagreements with his conclusions.....

Establish manufacturing standards for ejuice, including but not limited to,
a. Physical requirements of the manufacturing facility,
b. Accurate labeling following best practices
c. Maximum concentrations of nicotine to 24mg/ml
d. Maximum single bottle sizes of 10 ml
e. Lot tracking mechanisms.
f. Ingredient quality

A maximum of 24 mg/mL would have left me as a probable smoker, failed quitter. It would not be strong enough to satisfy some vapers who might need 36mg/mL to be successful.

10mL bottles??? Are cigarettes, alcohol or anything else limited in size to 2-3 day supply?

 

[Nate760]

Primary due diligence is a time consuming endeavor, in which conflicting scientific data must be analyzed by content experts, interpreted and then weighted as to the quality of each piece of information. Heart and Stroke Societies, Cancer Care Organizations and Local Health officials have the mandate to do this but have not devoted the resources to do so. The same misinformation and standard positions statements are simply reiterated by each organization assuming another has done the diligence. Comments made in the lay press are taken up by these organizations and research simply becomes reading each other’s position papers. It becomes a static cycle that does not allow for incorporation of new scientific or epidemiological information.

This is the most concise and elegant description I've ever seen of the manner in which "peer review" masquerades as scientific rigor when, in actuality, it is quite often neither scientific nor rigorous. Standing ovation for Dr. Bhatnagar.

This report is going straight in my "Educational Materials for Ignorant ANTZ" folder. Outstanding find, Doc.

 

[Harlen]

But the kids ? They are going to smoke if ecigs are used by adults then they are going to use drugs .we just know it
So much hype it's the money they don't wish to lose.

 

[Nate760]

I do have a couple small disagreements with his conclusions.....

A maximum of 24 mg/mL would have left me as a probable smoker, failed quitter. It would not be strong enough to satisfy some vapers who might need 36mg/mL to be successful.

10mL bottles??? Are cigarettes, alcohol or anything else limited in size to 2-3 day supply?

Those two items caused me to raise an eyebrow as well, but it's still a very useful and insightful report on the whole.

The 10ml thing is particularly puzzling, since Dr. Bhatnagar himself stated earlier in the report that a person would have to drink a minimum of 60ml of e-liquid in order to ingest a potentially lethal dose of nicotine.

And as far as the 24mg limit, there's just no reason to assume this would accomplish anything in terms of consumer safety. NJoy's disposables, to cite one example, are twice that strength, they've been on the market for the better part of a decade, and no one has yet been harmed by one.

 

[Kent C]

Well written and well argued presentation, from a medical professional. Gotta love it!!

I do have a couple small disagreements with his conclusions.....



A maximum of 24 mg/mL would have left me as a probable smoker, failed quitter. It would not be strong enough to satisfy some vapers who might need 36mg/mL to be successful.

10mL bottles??? Are cigarettes, alcohol or anything else limited in size to 2-3 day supply?

How did you copy and paste that? All I get is one word lines

Good piece. I disagree with all the recommendations. If I could get a good copy and paste I'd list why on each but if you know me you might be able to figure it out lol. Hint - mandate, restrict, and even 'allow' (as if one can't do it without asking the gov't) aren't part of my vocabulary in these matters* when it comes to gov't. (*violation of rights is another matter)

 

[Stosh]

How did you copy and paste that? All I get is one word lines

Good piece. I disagree with all the recommendations. If I could get a good copy and paste I'd list why on each but if you know me you might be able to figure it out lol. Hint - mandate, restrict, and even 'allow' (as if one can't do it without asking the gov't) aren't part of my vocabulary in these matters* when it comes to gov't. (*violation of rights is another matter)

Paste it into Notepad or similar first....

 

[Uma]

Wonderful find! It is definitely worth bookmarking. Thanks!

 

[Uma]

Paste it into Notepad or similar first....

I've always wondered how y'all managed those quotes. Makes sense to me now.

 

[Kent C]

Paste it into Notepad or similar first....

Tried that, didn't work :-\ No biggie....

 

[acidvap]

People have been getting DUIs since alcohol and driving was invented people have been dying from stinkies since they came along.......if they want to put limits on vaping then do away with drinking and smoking cause so far no one has ever died from vaping..... For me it's been doing nothing but helping me

 

[AndriaD]

Tried that, didn't work :-\ No biggie....

It's a PDF, so the usual cntrl-C won't work... once you select the part you want to copy, right click on it.

Andria

 

[Kent C]

It's a PDF, so the usual cntrl-C won't work... once you select the part you want to copy, right click on it.

Andria

Tried that and also 'edit copy' from the top menu. Here's what I get:


Suggestion
for
the
committee's
consideration
1. Treat
e-.‐cigarettes
in
a
new
category
of
tobacco
harm
reduction
products
and
not
as
a
tobacco
product
or
a
drug.
2.
Establish
manufacturing
standards
for
e-.‐cigarette
hardware,
such
as
battery
composition,
duration
and
materials.
3. Establish
manufacturing
standards
for
ejuice,
including
but
not
limited
to,

Never happened before - in either pdf format. Always have been able to copy/paste. Running Win 7 IE11 no chrome, no firefox (although I have that, just didn't think it worth loading

 

[Stosh]

Tried that and also 'edit copy' from the top menu.
Never happened before - in either pdf format. Always have been able to copy/paste. Running Win 7 IE11 no chrome, no firefox (although I have that, just didn't think it worth loading

Is your Acrobat updated 11.0.9.29 is the current.....IE go to tools - manage add ons and (on the bottom) display all

 

[Tache]

Tried that and also 'edit copy' from the top menu. Here's what I get:


Suggestion
for
the
committee's
consideration
1. Treat
e-.‐cigarettes
in
a
new
category
of
tobacco
harm
reduction
products
and
not
as
a
tobacco
product
or
a
drug.
2.
Establish
manufacturing
standards
for
e-.‐cigarette
hardware,
such
as
battery
composition,
duration
and
materials.
3. Establish
manufacturing
standards
for
ejuice,
including
but
not
limited
to,

Never happened before - in either pdf format. Always have been able to copy/paste. Running Win 7 IE11 no chrome, no firefox (although I have that, just didn't think it worth loading

(Tongue in cheek - at least a little bit) Try a Mac, it has this "plug and play" thing that makes doing things a little easier.

 

[TyPie]

Tried that and also 'edit copy' from the top menu. Here's what I get:


Suggestion
for
the
committee's
consideration
1. Treat
e-.‐cigarettes
in
a
new
category
of
tobacco
harm
reduction
products
and
not
as
a
tobacco
product
or
a
drug.
2.
Establish
manufacturing
standards
for
e-.‐cigarette
hardware,
such
as
battery
composition,
duration
and
materials.
3. Establish
manufacturing
standards
for
ejuice,
including
but
not
limited
to,

Never happened before - in either pdf format. Always have been able to copy/paste. Running Win 7 IE11 no chrome, no firefox (although I have that, just didn't think it worth loading

Thanks for this. I'm saving it for speed reading practice so I can train myself to read DOWN a page faster, rather than across it, and not get dizzy.

 

[Kent C]

Is your Acrobat updated 11.0.9.29 is the current.....IE go to tools - manage add ons and (on the bottom) display all

That is the version I have loaded.

 

[Kent C]

(Tongue in cheek - at least a little bit) Try a Mac, it has this "plug and play" thing that makes doing things a little easier.

I've been tempted, but not through any lack of knowledge, which is usually the draw for Macs. I use photoshop and it runs faster on a PC even though it was made for Macs I'll likely just delete Acrobat and reload. Again, never happened before - thought maybe it was the file itself.

 

[scaredmice]

Well, lots of thoughts about this thread and the Canadian report....

Firstly, you can also try any Linux....... I mean for the copy&paste from PDF's.....

Secondly, and not trying to get ahold in any academical argument, I am a chemist, I mean I did a degree in Chemistry and I have been working as chemist and chemical engineering for several decades on the industry....

But I'm also a vaper who makes his own e-liquids, in 100 mL batches (typically four or five of them at once), and I do not have eGo's since some months ago, just 18350/18650 mods..... I feel like a target of the 29^th page of the presentations converted into PDF.....

If anyone wonders about those proposals (10 mL per bottle, restrictions and/or harder specifications for batteries and related hardware, and so on), well, it proves that you're not a Spaniard like me. Here in Spain we really do know very well how about these things happen..... there are some business and professional collectives to be protected (or that they'd like to), in the form of pharmaceutical manufacturers and pharmacists, who really would like to sell those things with iron-fisted controls in European drug-stores. You know, here we have to get prescriptions to enter a B&M pharmacy, which only sells medical drugs. That situation differs considerably from US....

Even worse, and from the IRS perspective, it is a pity that e-cig related hardware and liquids are not exclusively sold in tobacco-related, legally authorized sellers (here they are called 'estancos') ....and with the same stratospheric taxes. In other EU countries the situation is likely similar, even if they do not have a monopoly of sellers, but the selling of tobacco-related things is strongly regulated..... and heavily taxed. Putting harder specifications and limits to what sizes of batteries, power in VV/VW, and liquid quantities would help to guide those missing incomes to the IRS......

Even if in the next page Bhatnagar says 'Not restricting sales of e-.‐cigarettes to tobacco retailers', you might forgive me if I really do not like the report. It's interesting in what we really just know (that vaping is far less harmful than smoking), in drive authorities to better smoking-cessation strategies (as we also know, vaping IS NOT smoking!), but in the end it is a heavy torpedo into our waterline......

And as many of you have cleverly stated, most of us would be smoking if we were constrained to CE4/eGo hardware.......