Charging at 2 or 4.1 amps?

[Violetti Usva]

The Xtarr Over4Slim claims to be able to charge two batteries at 4.1amps...I'm just curious as to whether this is even safe?

From the website:
"The powerful chip in the devices will automatically charge your device at the correct rate based on internal measured resistance.

Do not worry about safety, the xtar Over 4 Slim has built in temperature monitors that constantly oversee the charging cycles work to insure safe, powerful charging."

I don't know enough about battery safety to disagree but could have sworn I'd seen battery safety specs posted by mooch stating charging limits at 1.5a and maybe a few at 2a - never 4a. Thoughts?

 

[bombastinator]

Yes. Batteries are a bit like balloons. The start out big and puffy and deflate as they discharge. 3.7v is the average voltage, but they move from 4.2 down to 3.2v at the dead empty. Some mods will read empty battery at as much as 3.5v. As for the amount of input voltage 4.1 does seem high but it is likely they are referring to battery capacity.

 

[zoiDman]

From what I understand, the Charger can Measure the Internal Resistance of the Battery to be charged. Then it can set the Highest Amps the Battery can handle. It also has a Physical Battery Heat Sensor. So if the Battery is getting Too Hot, it can Lower the Amps.

Review of Charger Xtar Over 4 Slim

Now How Well all this stuff Works? I'll leave that to the Charts n' Graphs guys.

I Don't have a Problem charging at 0.5 or 1.0 Amps. So a "Rapid" Charger Isn't really a big need for me.

 

[Beamslider]

It appears the charger does do up to 4.1 A charge. Claims 30 minute charge for that. But I wouldn't do that. The overall life of the battery is likely to suffer.

 

[Violetti Usva]

Yes. Batteries are a bit like balloons. The start out big and puffy and deflate as they discharge. 3.7v is the average voltage, but they move from 4.2 down to 3.2v at the dead empty. Some mods will read empty battery at as much as 3.5v. As for the amount of input voltage 4.1 does seem high but it is likely they are referring to battery capacity.

You didn't read the title or thread did you? My guess is you just saw a number close to 4.2 and thought that must be what I meant

From what I understand, the Charger can Measure the Internal Resistance of the Battery to be charged. Then it can set the Highest Amps the Battery can handle. It also has a Physical Battery Heat Sensor. So if the Battery is getting Too Hot, it can Lower the Amps.

Review of Charger Xtar Over 4 Slim

Now How Well all this stuff Works? I'll leave that to the Charts n' Graphs guys.

I Don't have a Problem charging at 0.5 or 1.0 Amps. So a "Rapid" Charger Isn't really a big need for me.

I'm generally fine with 1 amp but my current charger doesn't actually deliver the 1 amp it claimed to be capable of. From what you've said that does ease my concerns about this product, provided it wont let you charge a battery unsafely via ignorance.

It appears the charger does do up to 4.1 A charge. Claims 30 minute charge for that. But I wouldn't do that. The overall life of the battery is likely to suffer.

That was my prediction - my worry is more the boom-y side of battery concerns

 

[zoiDman]

...

I'm generally fine with 1 amp but my current charger doesn't actually deliver the 1 amp it claimed to be capable of. From what you've said that does ease my concerns about this product, provided it wont let you charge a battery unsafely via ignorance.

...

I kinda have 2 Problems with a Charger that set Amps "Automatically".

The First, of course, is Does the charger Accurately estimate what is a "Reasonable" Amp amount for a given Battery?

The Second is (which should be a Huge Consideration IMO) do I consider what the OEM considers to be Reasonable Amount of Amps to be a Reasonable Amount of Amps?

It's kinda like that Heat Sensor to throttle back Amps when the Battery get Too Hot. Love the Idea. Something that would be a Great Addition on ALL Chargers.

But if the Temperature Limit is set Higher than what I would want a Battery to reach, have I really gotten a Benefit from it?

I'm Not really an Expert on Chargers. And I lean more towards Charging at Lower Amps to try to achieve Longer battery lifespan. So I'll be curious to see what Others have to say about this unit.

 

[Beamslider]

It doesn't seem to force the fast charging. You can let it do it or set the amp yourself. Here is the product page
OVER4 SLIM,Fast Charging Series,Shenzhen XTAR Electronics Co., Ltd

 

[KurtVD]

The Xtarr Over4Slim claims to be able to charge two batteries at 4.1amps...I'm just curious as to whether this is even safe?

From the website:
"The powerful chip in the devices will automatically charge your device at the correct rate based on internal measured resistance.

Do not worry about safety, the Xtar Over 4 Slim has built in temperature monitors that constantly oversee the charging cycles work to insure safe, powerful charging."

I don't know enough about battery safety to disagree but could have sworn I'd seen battery safety specs posted by mooch stating charging limits at 1.5a and maybe a few at 2a - never 4a. Thoughts?

A little late to the party...could it be that they simply claim to be able to deliver 4 amps for both batteries combined, eg 2 amp per battery? (Which would be standard fast charging). As opposed to some other products, that can charge either one at 2 amps or two at 1 amp (I guess)...

 

[Punk In Drublic]

One should follow the recommended charging rate of said battery and not exceed it. For multiple batteries, ensure your charger is either dividing the output among all batteries or supply that amount to individual batteries.

https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/attachments/807b061c-d301-4db0-8871-b5a78277bf74-jpeg.713547/

 

[Violetti Usva]

A little late to the party...could it be that they simply claim to be able to deliver 4 amps for both batteries combined, eg 2 amp per battery? (Which would be standard fast charging). As opposed to some other products, that can charge either one at 2 amps or two at 1 amp (I guess)...

The charger in particular claims to be able to deliver 4.1amp to both batteries, which I thought is a bit extreme.

One should follow the recommended charging rate of said battery and not exceed it. For multiple batteries, ensure your charger is either dividing the output among all batteries or supply that amount to individual batteries.

https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/attachments/807b061c-d301-4db0-8871-b5a78277bf74-jpeg.713547/

I had no idea that Mooch had made this chart, that's incredibly helpful! Shame it doesn't also include the Samsung 20S but I'm guessing that it will be in the next version of the chart

 

[KurtVD]

The charger in particular claims to be able to deliver 4.1amp to both batteries, which I thought is a bit extreme.

Yes, sorry, I was just on their website. As has been said before, higher charging currents will potentially have a negative influence on the longevity of your batteries, so it’s a trade off. If you benefit from ultra fast charging, it’s probably worth it, even if you have to replace your batteries a bit more often. For me, standard fast charging at 2 amps is plenty fast enough.

 

[Punk In Drublic]

I had no idea that Mooch had made this chart, that's incredibly helpful! Shame it doesn't also include the Samsung 20S but I'm guessing that it will be in the next version of the chart

According to his test on this cell, Samsung did not provide a data sheet so that could be why he did not included it on that chart. But having a quick glance it seems all Samsung batteries that have a >15amp CDR rating are able to handle 4amp charging. You can try 4a charging, but if the battery gets hot, stop immediately. Also just note that even if it does not get hot at 4a, you are decreasing the life of the battery charging at that rate. How much so….I have no idea. That would be a pretty lengthy test so not sure even Mooch would know.

 

[DaveP]

This reminds me of Ephraim's hex ohm...

Just because a mod says it goes up to a certain wattage, doesn't mean it can do so in reality. Mod manufacturs seem to just pull these numbers out of the air and slap whatever sounds like it would sell better on it.

According to his test on this cell, Samsung did not provide a data sheet so that could be why he did not included it on that chart. But having a quick glance it seems all Samsung batteries that have a >15amp CDR rating are able to handle 4amp charging. You can try 4a charging, but if the battery gets hot, stop immediately. Also just note that even if it does not get hot at 4a, you are decreasing the life of the battery. How much so….I have no idea. That would be a pretty lengthy test so not sure even Mooch would know.

Since I have plenty of time on my hands and far more cells than I'll ever use all at once, I always charge at 1A and let them cool before use. During the peak of charge my cells feel warm to a finger touch, but cool if I take one out and press it against my cheek, so cell casing temp is less than body temp, FWIW.

I like to let them rest before popping them into a mod.

 

[BillW50]

According to his test on this cell, Samsung did not provide a data sheet so that could be why he did not included it on that chart. But having a quick glance it seems all Samsung batteries that have a >15amp CDR rating are able to handle 4amp charging. You can try 4a charging, but if the battery gets hot, stop immediately. Also just note that even if it does not get hot at 4a, you are decreasing the life of the battery charging at that rate. How much so….I have no idea. That would be a pretty lengthy test so not sure even Mooch would know.

Apparently it isn't as bad as most people believed.

Recharging Lithium-Ion Batteries Rapidly Not So Harmful After All

 

[zoiDman]

Apparently it isn't as bad as most people believed.

Recharging Lithium-Ion Batteries Rapidly Not So Harmful After All

Is this one of those Things where there is a Blurry Line between what an Article's Author chooses as a Headline, and what a Research Group reports via a "Study"?

And or where Specifics are/might be being Applied to Generalities? And Vice Versa?

 

[Zaryk]

While it may not be that bad for some cells to be charged at higher amps, I personally still charge at lower amps (I stick with around .5a charge). This is because, just as DaveP said, I have plenty of batterys on hand so I do not feel like I need to rush anything. Doing it this way I don't have to remember the safe limit for each cell I own since all my cells can be charged safely at .5a. Plus at this charge rate, my batteries just barely gets warm to the touch.

 

[Violetti Usva]

I'm happy charging at 0.5 - 0.8a, this thread was more out of curiosity for anyone considering the aforementioned device.

 

[BillW50]

But Zaryk, my batteries doesn't get even warm at 1A and some doesn't get warm at 2A. And if you want to double the lifecycle of your batteries, just only charge them to 90% full. I learned this trick like 15 years ago when Palm computers started doing this with their lithium cells. Too bad only Evolv boards allows this option that I have seen. Some chargers you can tell it that they are 3.6v cells and not 3.7v cells and this does the same thing. And yes, it really does double the lifespan of cells. Charging slow vs. fast, not so much in my experiments.

 

[Zaryk]

But Zaryk, my batteries doesn't get even warm at 1A and some doesn't get warm at 2A. And if you want to double the lifecycle of your batteries, just only charge them to 90% full. I learned this trick like 15 years ago when Palm computers started doing this with their lithium cells. Too bad only Evolv boards allows this option that I have seen. Some chargers you can tell it that they are 3.6v cells and not 3.7v cells and this does the same thing. And yes, it really does double the lifespan of cells. Charging slow vs. fast, not so much in my experiments.

That may be, but I still do things my way. My slow charge is not to extend the life of the battery, just to not shorten the life of the battery. The only draw back is that it is just slow, but I am perfectly fine with that. My batteries may not get warm at 1a, or even 2a, but I'll never know since I don't use those charge settings. It sure doesnt hurt anything to charge slowly.

 

[Punk In Drublic]

In order to get any kind of accurate figure in how much the lifespan of a battery is reduced by charging at a higher rate or charging to a higher capacity, the tests must be conducted in a controlled environment - meaning all batteries subjected to the test must be discharged at the same rate under the same conditions. We do not vape in a controlled environment, discharge rates change, temperature in which they were discharged changes etc.