Cheap liquids are not worth it

[todd0864]

I agree with the OP to an extent. The best juices I've vaped have been boutique juices. Even the ones that were not quite my thing still had that something about it that screamed "high end". I've been purging my juice drawer and everything I'm chucking in the garbage are mom and pop shop juices from local shops or stuff I bought online that had a cheap price tag. Maybe I'm picky.


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[Ed_C]

This is not quite right. Everyone is calculating the cost of physical ingredients as total economic cost. What about Entrepreneurtia, physical location, staff, overhead, etc. These are all real economic costs. The specific one to concentrate on is entrepreneurtia. Sure, 2 places might make a strawberry lemon vape and charge wildly different prices, but stop and consider what went into those juices. Remeber, for a business owner, mixing up flavors isn't a hobby, but rather a job. Now, shop 1 takes 50% strawberry flavoring and 50% lemon flavoring added to their base, slaps a label on it, and it's ready to go. Entrepreneur A has just spent 20 minutes of his time in production.

Company 2 has a taste stickler for an owner. he tries various ratios, various adjunct flavorings, various steeps until he has produced Bob's magical Strawberry Lemonade. Bob has spent 2 weeks of his life on this (remember this is Bob's enterprise). He doesn't have another job, he rents his mixing building as he wants a truly sanitary lab, among other costs that I won't go into. Now, should entrepreneur A's or B's juice be more expensive?

This plays to the OP. Many cheap juices are cheap simply because they have Ent. A. Many expensive juices are expensive because they have Ent B. Are there pretenders in the boutique juice market? Of course there are, but many more expensive juices have person B at the helm, and that is who's juice I want to vape.

I know this was a serious post, but I still couldn't help but get a bit of a laugh. In the first example, if anyone was taking 20 minutes to mix a bottle of juice, he or she needs to find another line of work. In the second example, do you really believe that there are people spending two weeks working on one flavor mix and doing nothing else? I find this highly unlikely. Perhaps if they are doing some sort of in-house extractions, but still I'd be surprised.

Are there reason why some juices might cost more? Sure, some people have a knack for coming up with tasty flavor combinations and because of this, they become popular and can sell there products at a somewhat higher price. This being said, the cost of doing business isn't any different between the tasty juice and the nasty one.
There's also marketing with fancy little bottles, but this doesn't make me want to buy their juice. Every time I go into my local store I taste their Five Pawns and each time, I think, I just don't get it. For me, the emperor has no clothes.

 

[CoilMeister]

this is all wrong...
I get that there are a few restaurants that much expensive food, they use better ingredients, have more staff, pay a premium for location etc etc...

now regarding juice as said above the raw ingredients from the cheap juices to the expensive are more or less the same, so the difference in price is just diference in profit.

that said I've tried some really cheap juices and some really expensive ones and as much as I would like to say that you get the same random numbers on good or bad juices regardless of the price I (for me) have had much better luck with cheap ones.

now I've been DIYing for the last year and I can say that my juices are much much better than those "boutique" ones.

I would take a hangsen over five pawns every day

I prefer my diy as well, not only from a taste standpoint but also a economic one.

Kurt

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[Tonythefiddler]

Agreed here. Killer Juice was probably the worst I've ever tasted, MBV isn't bad but inconsistent (thug juice is one of my favs) and bionic was about half and half. None of them stand up to nicoticket, ahlusion, etc. for me. Just got my first five pawns today (grandmaster) and while it's probably not worth the $$ and I don't think i'll get it again, it's very delicious. I think a lot of vendors also use actual extracts too, which would partly justify the cost.

 

[Fearlessleader]

I know everyone has a cheap go to flavor, as do I, but IMO buying cheap liquid isn't worth it. You've seen the threads here "blah blah's strawberry whipple dipple is the bestest flavor eva and it's only $20 for 120ml!" I'll tell you now it is most likely crap. If you see a thread touting a brand basically no one has heard of & people are acting like it's super amazing, proceed with caution. I have vaped alot of brands including the bargain basement price really a premium product, and the lite that keeps away the boogie man brands. IMO they are crap. I have found 1 flavor & 1 flavor only under 45 cents a ml when bought by the 30ml bottle that I will reorder. Vape what you like, like what you vape, but beware of fanboy threads. Don't waste your money on 6 flavors to find 1 that's decent. It's better to just shell out a little extra & get something worth a damn.

This is so true I don't know how many crappy bottles of cheap juice I bought and they where all junk its not worth the time and money to buy a bunch of cheap juice and if your just starting out and still trying to quit smoking it not worth you failing to quit because you keep getting nasty juice

 

[vapero]

This is not quite right. Everyone is calculating the cost of physical ingredients as total economic cost. What about Entrepreneurtia, physical location, staff, overhead, etc. These are all real economic costs. The specific one to concentrate on is entrepreneurtia. Sure, 2 places might make a strawberry lemon vape and charge wildly different prices, but stop and consider what went into those juices. Remeber, for a business owner, mixing up flavors isn't a hobby, but rather a job. Now, shop 1 takes 50% strawberry flavoring and 50% lemon flavoring added to their base, slaps a label on it, and it's ready to go. Entrepreneur A has just spent 20 minutes of his time in production.

Company 2 has a taste stickler for an owner. he tries various ratios, various adjunct flavorings, various steeps until he has produced Bob's magical Strawberry Lemonade. Bob has spent 2 weeks of his life on this (remember this is Bob's enterprise). He doesn't have another job, he rents his mixing building as he wants a truly sanitary lab, among other costs that I won't go into. Now, should entrepreneur A's or B's juice be more expensive?

This plays to the OP. Many cheap juices are cheap simply because they have Ent. A. Many expensive juices are expensive because they have Ent B. Are there pretenders in the boutique juice market? Of course there are, but many more expensive juices have person B at the helm, and that is who's juice I want to vape.

this is the way I see it

the price of a liquid (I don't care if they have more overhead, more staff, in house chef, just sloppy non efficient or greedy) doesn't really relate to the taste of a juice;
higher price doesn't equal to better flavor, as easy as that...

so before I DIY i tried flavors that I thought sounded good and didn't care much for the price as I learned that it didn't mean a thing.

 

[Davey59]

Agreed here. Killer Juice was probably the worst I've ever tasted, MBV isn't bad but inconsistent (thug juice is one of my favs) .

I had the exact opposite experience with those two venders.

 

[xxJollyRogerxx]

I had the exact opposite experience with those two venders.

Same here. Very unimpressed with MBV but KJ was ok.
Also, I have a bottle of "premium" juice that people rave about here on the boards and after going through about 4 friends I still cannot give it away but i can show you loads of posts about how great this juice is. Actually I bet if i posted the name I would have people right now wanting to take it off my hands.

 

[MattyTny]

I feel that some of the "expensive" juices really do taste great, but I also want it to taste great because I paid nearly $1/ml. I also feel that cheaper juices taste great, but I hope it tastes great because I got a good deal.

The ingredients are all pretty much the exact same. Propylene glycol, glycerin, nicotine extract, and flavor are all pretty cheap in comparison to any juice vendor. Maybe the flavor price depends on the vendor, but the price point also includes the name and the bottle. Assuming all juice vendors are using the same base ingredients, except flavor, most juices are similar. I would pay extra for a juice vendor that doesn't use alcohol in their flavorings, but that's my personal preference. I wouldn't put a blanket statement on all lower costing juices saying that they are not worth it, because what inside the juice isn't actually worth it? Maybe you just don't like the flavor. The taste is highly subjective too, don't know how many times that's been said already.

I also want to just point out I'm posting in reference to liquids made in the states and not overseas.

 

[SteamHead]

I like how 2 people who joined this year have accused me of trolling! Seriously? Yeah I've been a member since 2010 & I decided to wait 4 years to make a troll thread?

Whether intentional or not, this IS a troll thread. When you come on a forum and make a blanket statement (cheap liquids are not worth it) about a subject that is HIGHLY subjective, present your OPINION as FACT, and effectively bash other people's choices, you are creating a thread that is trollish in nature.


Is it your belief that everyone who enjoys a lost cost juice is just stupid? Liars? Uninformed? Has no taste? Ulterior motives? Obviously there are a TON of people who enjoy juices that don't have "premium" prices... so what is it exatcly that you're trying to say about them?


Again, I didn't mean to accuse YOU of being a troll. Sorry if I came off that way.

About the term "fanboy", I use that about threads not individual comments. Everyone has a flavor they really love & want everyone to know it, but when a thread is 100 or more pages & it's the same 5 people posting in it singing the praises of every single flavor a company makes, that is a fanboy thread.

I'm pretty sure you're referring to the ITC thread. I read through the ENITRE thread, did you? There's a ton of people posting in it, and I'd guess at least 70% of the people who ordered juice because of that thread enjoyed at least one of their flavors. The praise has been pretty uniform, enough to prompt me to order 7 flavors to try out. The OP in that thread also has stated quite a few flavors that didn't hit for her, so the second part of your statement is at best an exaggeration, at worst an untruth.

Maybe my tastes are different than others, but I have never found a company that has had even 33% of the flavors that I ordered be worth a reorder.

Don't waste your money on 6 flavors to find 1 that's decent. It's better to just shell out a little extra & get something worth a damn.

So let me get this straight... according to your own logic, it's okay to "waste" your money on 4 bottles of premium juice to find one you like (lets say the premium in question is $1 per ml, so 4x $15= $60), but NOT okay to waste your money buying six bottles of a low price juice ($5 per 15 mil, so 6 x $5= $30). Huh? With the cheap vendor I can try THREE TIMES as many juices, assuming the smallest size is 15ml.

When you DO find a flavor that hits, then you can stock up with a 120ml or 240ml bottle that's INSANELY cheap, and the savings grow exponentially. With the exploding popularoty of dripping, people are going through way more juice than they used to. Not everyone can afford a bottle of Five Pawns every few days, especially in this economy.


I was more than happy to "waste" $35 to find even ONE flavor I like with ITC. With Casey Jones Mainline Reserve I found Pink Rabbit, which replaced my Nicoticket Strawnilla addiction. After a nice steep, then going back to Strawnilla, I found I liked the CJMR even more! I was paying $35 for 50mls of Strawnilla, vs $28 for 120mls of Pink Rabbit. The low price is just a (huge) added bonus.

 

[Ed_C]

Whether intentional or not, this IS a troll thread. When you come on a forum and make a blanket statement (cheap liquids are not worth it) about a subject that is HIGHLY subjective, present your OPINION as FACT, and effectively bash other people's choices, you are creating a thread that is trollish in nature.


Is it your belief that everyone who enjoys a lost cost juice is just stupid? Liars? Uninformed? Has no taste? Ulterior motives? Obviously there are a TON of people who enjoy juices that don't have "premium" prices... so what is it exatcly that you're trying to say about them?


Again, I didn't mean to accuse YOU of being a troll. Sorry if I came off that way.

I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with this statement. For a person to be a troll or for a post to be a troll post, there needs to be intent and I did not feel like that was the case here.

"In Internet slang, a troll (/ˈtroʊl/, /ˈtrɒl/) is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people,[1] by posting inflammatory,[2] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a newsgroup, forum, chat room, or blog) with the deliberate intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[3] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.[4]"

Also, when someone makes a statement that is clearly their subjective opinion, I don't really feel like they must state it as IMHO or the like, I just infer from what they are talking about, that it is, indeed an opinion.

PS ...and actually, looking back at the OP, he did say IMO.

 

[SteamHead]

I do see where you're coming from, but blanket statements like this DO provoke an emotional response, calling vendors (not by name, but it's obvious who he's referring to) that many of us enjoy crap IS inflammatory (especially when it's highly doubtful he's even tried said vendors), as is name-calling like "fanboy".


If the thread was less about bashing "cheap" vendors, and more about his love for premium lines, many less jimmies would be rustled.


If the thread was intended to be more of a PSA to vaping newbs, then in some way I agree, better to start with something universally accepted as "good" to get you off the analogs. IMO, after that start looking to save money. Juice is the only real cost if you're rebuilding and happy with your mod.

 

[Davey59]

Heh, without some good natured trolling the internet would be far far less entertaining.

I like this thread, lots of good thoughts..... but that it subjective!

 

[Ed_C]

I do see where you're coming from, but blanket statements like this DO provoke an emotional response, calling vendors (not by name, but it's obvious who he's referring to) that many of us enjoy crap IS inflammatory (especially when it's highly doubtful he's even tried said vendors), as is name-calling like "fanboy".


If the thread was less about bashing "cheap" vendors, and more about his love for premium lines, many less jimmies would be rustled.


If the thread was intended to be more of a PSA to vaping newbs, then in some way I agree, better to start with something universally accepted as "good" to get you off the analogs. IMO, after that start looking to save money. Juice is the only real cost if you're rebuilding and happy with your mod.

Yeah, maybe he could have worded it more gently, but really, I didn't take offense.

 

[Jdbaker82]

I found that I have a better chance finding a juice I can vape everyday in the mid and upper tier vs the cheapest liquids.

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[RobinBanks]

I gotta disagree here too. I have gone through, man, probably a couple thousand (cringe) dollars in premium juice. I was a hardcore premium juice junkie, When I was just puffing on an ego with a pro tank, vaping premium wasn't a big deal, but then I started building and vaping sub ohm on dual coils with a REO. 30ml of premium juice gone in NO TIME and I had to figure something out because vaping had become almost as as expensive as smoking for me.

So, I started trying some budget juices and I've found a few brands that are really, really good. Perhaps not as complex as some of my premium juices, but also far better than some too. I still have my Craft Vapery subscription and I get a few premium juices a month, but for the most part I'm sticking with the budget and perfectly satisfied.

Of course, I had to go through a bit of lousy cheap juice to find some good stuff, but I've paid top dollar for stuff that tastes like paint thinner too (though to a lesser extent).

 

[issy]

"IMO" I think everyone has to find their sweet spot. I loves me some Vaping Birdy, but dang. Then again, I've never liked a single 5 Pawns that I've tried, and I've gone to tasting bars probably 6-8 times. Virgin Vapor was a waste of money for me. I've loved everything I've tried from ITC, and I thought MOV was pretty good. I guess the moral is that You will waste money, whether it is on too-expensive juice that isn't worth the money, or too-cheap juice that tastes crappy. And DIY might be a good idea if you're wasting too much

 

[Dunkel]

calling vendors (not by name, but it's obvious who he's referring to) that many of us enjoy crap IS inflammatory (especially when it's highly doubtful he's even tried said vendors), as is name-calling like "fanboy".

If the thread was intended to be more of a PSA to vaping newbs, then in some way I agree, better to start with something universally accepted as "good" to get you off the analogs.

I have tried both unnamed yet hinted at vendors. In fact I sold some of the "lite" stuff a few months ago here. I also commented on my initial reactions to the bargain basement priced "premium" juice in their thread. I decided not to post my final rulings in that thread as they would come after me with pitchforks & torches! I kid I kid

It was intendend as a PSA to newbs. I admit looking back at the tone I used that it was a bit abrasive, but I'm a passionate person and speak my mind ferociously sometimes.

 

[Avid]

I also commented on my initial reactions to the bargain basement priced "premium" juice in their thread. I decided not to post my final rulings in that thread as they would come after me with pitchforks & torches! I kid I kid

That is a fan-based (note: I didn't use 'fanboy') thread. I have also purchased juice from that particular vendor, about 8 bottles or thereabouts. I've given them warm UC baths and will wait 2-3 weeks to steep them properly (almost done!) and sample them again before posting a review in the REVIEW section. They'll be honest reviews. They will reflect my *opinion*. They may not all be well-received by their fans, though.

It was intendend as a PSA to newbs. I admit looking back at the tone I used that it was a bit abrasive, but I'm a passionate person and speak my mind ferociously sometimes.

Passion is a great thing! I can understand your irritation at all the hype and recommendations of flavors/vendors you didn't like. Been there, done that.. and it's disappointing. Everyone wants the best, highest quality eliquid in flavors they love at the lowest possible price. Do you get what you pay for? Some say 'yes' (I have to admit, I usually end up in this camp and it appears you do, too) and others think you're just paying for packaging/advertising because all eliquids are basically made up of the same 4 ingredients so why pay more? And yet just about all these vendors/eliquids have fans from Five Pawns, Nicoticket, Ahlusion, Suicide Bunny, etc. (at a higher price point) to Mt. Baker Vapor, ITC Vapes, EC Blends, etc., (at a lower price point) and everything in between.

I think it just comes down to the best eliquid you love for the amount of $$ you have or are willing to spend and what your expectations are. Not all expensive ejuices are great simply because they cost more - but not all inexpensive ejuice is lousy because they cost less. Ignore the hype! Follow your budget and go from vendor to vendor and flavor to flavor in your acceptable price range until you find some flavors you love. Once you do, that's where your brand loyalty will lie. Hence fan threads.

 

[DaveP]

I don't DIY juice because I don't particularly see the need to do that. I do mix some stock juices to get what I really do like.

I'm primarily a Dekang juice vaper. I buy Madvapes Tobacco to use as an additive for the Dekang Tobacco when I want a little stronger aromatic tobacco flavor. 50ml for $10.99 is a deal for a juice that you really miss when you are out.

I buy expensive juices here and there hoping to find something that knocks my socks off. So far, that hasn't happened and I've been doing this a long time. NT H1N1 Virus is a pretty good juice, but I get tired of it before my tank is empty. It's too strongly flavored. Here and there, I'll add a milliliter of it to a tank of Dekang Tobacco and then it's just right, so a bottle of Virus lasts me a while as a flavor enhancer.

I've spent considerable time at the local vape shop trying juices on their juice bar. There's about 60 juices from several different vendors. There's maybe 3 or 4 that I'd actually buy a bottle of. The rest all have some funky undertaste or some ingredient that just doesn't do anything for me.

I guess the question is why should I buy expensive juices I don't enjoy when there are long lists of cheap juices that are clean and flavorful at the level I enjoy? There was a time when I complained because I couldn't taste the juices I bought. I was still smoking and my taste buds and sense of smell were killing the flavors. Once I quit cigarettes it wasn't long before some flavors were too strong and others that I couldn't taste before became my daily vapes.

There are backroom juice facilities and there are those that are world class.