check this out !..A free test for electronic cigarettes ?

[dc2k08]

http://grants.nih.gov/grants/guide/pa-files/PA-09-046.html

The Department of Health and Human Services in America has announced a new program to fund the testing of tobacco products that are supposed to reduce harm. eligible candidates who can apply for the grant include small businesses and it looks like foreign parties can apply also.

Purpose. This funding opportunity announcement (FOA), issued by the National Cancer Institute (NCI) and the National Institute on Drug Abuse (NIDA), invites applications that propose multidisciplinary research on potential reduced-exposure tobacco products, both smoked and smokeless. The multidisciplinary studies can span basic, biological, behavioral, surveillance, and epidemiology research.

The tobacco industry is currently promoting several new products with claims that they: a) are less either harmful or less addictive; and b) purportedly deliver lower amounts of toxic, carcinogenic, and/or addictive agents to the user compared with conventional products. However, to date, the scientific evidence is insufficient to evaluate whether these new products actually reduce the users’ exposure or risk for tobacco-related diseases.

The overarching goal of this FOA is to determine whether potential reduced-exposure tobacco products provide a truly, less-harmful alternative to conventional tobacco products, both at the individual and population level.

I would say we would have a pretty good chance of getting a grant to pay for some organisation to make a complete independent study of electronic cigarettes using their proposal. All someone needs to do is fill out the application form which i'm sure is fairly meaty. It says the opening date is May 2009

 

[dflachbart]

The overarching goal of this FOA is to determine whether potential reduced-exposure tobacco products provide a truly, less-harmful alternative to conventional tobacco products, both at the individual and population level.

That does not apply to e-cigs...

 

[dc2k08]

invites applications that propose multidisciplinary research on potential reduced-exposure tobacco products, both smoked and smokeless

I think an e-cig would have a fairly good chance of getting a grant. They are after all an organisation that is concerned about people's health not some industry with vested interests. I think they would be interested.

 

[SMILIN]

I like it, like it lot's, look like it time to get proactive baby.

 

[TropicalBob]

This is clearly aimed at the smokeless tobacco promotions of Big Tobacco: Snus, dissolvables and chew. I doubt these health organizations would consider our little diversion worthy of anything but a ban, but if anyone has the legal backing to try, it would be Janty. It can't be just some reseller looking for publicity.

Also note: These groups are not our friends. This study no doubt hopes to rip apart the harm reduction practices of people like Dr. Brad Rodu.

 

[dc2k08]

you know, i think there are one or two countries that have classed electronic cigarettes as "smokeless tobacco" like Mexico recently and perhaps Thailand and S. Korea. That would definitely allow an organisation from one of those countries that has, to submit an application for a grant.

Bob, it could go either way, but the application allows you to choose where you want the study done. If we had some college, like I think Kate found, who was willing to do the tests, this grant might fund them and add legitimacy to electronic cigarettes before they are maligned further.

 

[TropicalBob]

That would be great. We just have to find a friend to find a place to do the study -- and follow through on the details. E-smoking is certainly worthy of study.

 

[Di]

uni ?

has professors,
chem labs,
guinea pigs, oops I mean students
for test subjects.

Di .....

 

[dc2k08]

Well that was fast, I downloaded the form and the instructions yesterday in PDF format. The site asked me for my email address so they could notify me of any changes in the form or instructions - I gave it to them as it is a .gov site. Luckily I did. Here's the email I got today:

A grant opportunity you have previously downloaded from Grants.gov has been deleted.

National Institutes of Health will no longer be accepting applications for this opportunity:
Opportunity Number: PA-09-046
Opportunity Title: Testing Tobacco Products Promoted to Reduce Harm (R01)
Competition ID : ADOBE-FORMS-A
Opening Date: 05/05/2009
Closing Date: 05/07/2012


Thank you,
Grants.gov
If you have questions please contact the Grants.gov Contact Center:
support@grants.gov
1-800-518-4726 (M-F 7:00 AM - 9:00 PM ET)

It was only put up yesterday. Why so suddenly ? They put a lot of work into their instructions for completing the form. I mean I was going to have to print it off and read it in my spare time, it was that big. I think I will write to them and ask them why. I just wonder if they'll tell me the truth.

I still have the PDF's if anyone wants to read them.
The link I gave in the OP now serves you a 404.

 

[TropicalBob]

This does smack of an agenda, but what's on the table, for whom? I guess I'm not as optimistic as you, dc, because I viewed the whole thing as getting a final nail to drive into the harm reduction, smokeless argument. These organizations are quit-or-die people. No friends of ours. This wasn't about e-smoking and I doubt they'd give us a second of time or consideration. But removing the grant opportunity was fast action, to be sure. Someone doesn't want that study!

 

[dc2k08]

weird huh? it comes at a time when many states are doubling taxes on cigarettes in a bid to pad their coffers in these hard times and when arizona has recently had to pull anti somking ads on tv even though they paid $2 million to produce them because they say they need the money for other things. the government loves tobacco. Check - the government relies on tobacco users for revenue. Well I wrote to them so i'll be interested in seeing their response.

Maybe i am optimistic but the grant was for any group who wanted to test whether smokeless tobacco products or tobacco products that are classified as less harmful are actually less harmful. I think we could have got a university to agree to test e-cigs and this grant would have supported their tests and added legitimacy to e-smoking.

The university could have been anywhere in the world and could have been completely independent from the US gov. I think proper tests would proove that e-cigs are less dangerous than real cigarettes and maybe more. I think they would have given us a grant.

The agencies behind the grant were The National Institutes of Health, The National Cancer Institute and The National Institute on Drug Abuse. In my opinion, the only sinister thing about the grant was the fact that it was pulled.

 

[LaceyUnderall]

TB is right... they want all or nothing. In searching the NIA website, they appear to only have results that tell you smoking is bad. I think they are honestly afraid that nicotine does actually have some good qualities to it and they have fallen into the prohibition trap.

Researchers Light Up for Nicotine, the Wonder Drug - really good article if you haven't come across this one.

 

[TropicalBob]

Like most if not all chemicals, nicotine has good and bad effects. If the good outweigh the bad, we're doing a very good thing, especially coupling the germ-killing impact of inhaled PG with the nicotine benefits.

But here's the part of that report that worries me a bit:

"There will be a variety of nicotine-based drugs coming out," agrees Ed Levin, a nicotine researcher at Duke University, who's done groundbreaking research on improving mental function in schizophrenia, Alzheimer's patients and people with ADHA. Levin believes the drugs are something to look forward to.

"There will be great progress when the nicotine sister drugs come to market," he says. "About half the cigarettes in this country are bought by people with psychiatric problems -- high percentages of people with depression and schizophrenia smoke, for example.

"When we can give people their medicine in a form that doesn't kill them, it will be real progress."

If nicotine is a medicine, guess who gets to regulate it? The FDA. And if the FDA has clear authority over that substance, will it approve it in the present form? Stuff from China without so much as an ingredient list? Untested? In vials without childproofing? With bubble wrap packaging? And if it's a drug, what will the cost become of that drug we addicts need to vaporize? Will it be prescription-only?

I'm still trying to see a smooth road into the future where we can continue to e-smoke without fear of either legal or health consequences. To me, not much else matters, like puffs per cart, etc. Law and science alone will determine our future. I don't see a smooth road ahead.

 

[LaceyUnderall]

I'm still trying to see a smooth road into the future where we can continue to e-smoke without fear of either legal or health consequences. To me, not much else matters, like puffs per cart, etc. Law and science alone will determine our future. I don't see a smooth road ahead.

Very good questions. I am sure the tobacco companies will ensure that it is their profit. And you are probably right... the road will be very bumpy... sadly.

 

[TropicalBob]

Lacey, I honestly don't believe Big Tobacco cares about moving into this market. They don't manufacture electronic products. This is not for them. They make tobacco products. They are moving to snus and smokeless tobacco products. They are not going to rebrand and resell a Chinese toy. At worst, they will become involved to ask government agencies to tax us exactly as tobacco products are taxed. Maybe $1.30 per cartridge in tax alone. (Liquid will likely be banned altogether, forbidden as a toxic poison.)

Big Pharma doesn't care either, except to ask government to make our nicotine pushers meet the same regulations and criteria that all NRT products must meet. That means years of study, delayed products, and millions of dollars that must be spent on testing and certification of safety and efficacy. Who will pay for those tests? The government doesn't do them. Companies do them. Big Pharma has paid plenty to get NRT products on the market. They offer products with approved nicotine; e-smoking offers products with unregulated nicotine. See a problem? Big Pharma will want e-nicotine to pay the same as was done for other non-tobacco, nicotine products.

E-smokers need to get past the idea that Big Tobacco or Big Pharma is an answer. Neither is likely to jump on the e-smoking bandwagon. Both are likely to fight e-smoking from behind the scenes (nothing to be gained by a public fight).

Finally, don't expect government to promote e-smoking for its "health" benefits. Those are unproven. They don't exist. "Common sense" isn't evidence. And if governments in many places see a threat to tobacco taxes, then alternatives to tobacco will be regulated almost out of existence. That's us!

Health groups say "quit or die." Government says "quit or pay." The choice is ours.

I'm still waiting for an explanation of a happy road to a glorious e-smoking future, if anyone can articulate it. In the meantime, enjoy the moment.

 

[trog100]

u guys worry about e cig legalities.. me.. i worry about the entire US economy imploding in upon itself and taking the rest of the world down with it...

still.. i have been accused of always taking the "negative" view..

best i go away hey bob.. ???

somehow i think e smoking and health problems aint gonna figure much in the grand scheme of things during the next few months..

simple US protectionism is probably the biggest threat to e smoking... no-ey import-ey stuff-ey from chin-ey.. possibly followed by world war three.. he he

black dark humour.. could be.. but then again... he he

trog

 

[dc2k08]

a few months Trog ? i envision myself smoking electronically for longer than two months and would like to seek ways to protect my hobby in the long run. if these take off, which they will and Big Med take notice, you just know they are going to be claiming x,y and z to get them black-listed. The smoking cessation market is one of their most dynamic. it would be handy to have some legitimate counter evidence in motion.

Yeah, the economy is a threat, especially for the sterling and we can read about the continuing riots in chinese factories, governments increasing tobacco taxes to make up their revenue. There are lots of factors to think about. It's not a bad idea to discuss them all.

Dark humor > check this:
Nerf factory riot in China

 

[trog100]

a few months Trog ? i envision myself smoking electronically for longer than two months and would like to seek ways to protect my hobby in the long run. if these take off, which they will and Big Med take notice, you just know they are going to be claiming x,y and z to get them black-listed. The smoking cessation market is one of their most dynamic. it would be handy to have some legitimate counter evidence in motion.

Yeah, the economy is a threat, especially for the sterling and we can read about the continuing riots in chinese factories, governments increasing tobacco taxes to make up their revenue. There are lots of factors to think about. It's not a bad idea to discuss them all.

Dark humor > check this:
Nerf factory riot in China

taking the real dire worse case scenario view DC..

a question of priorities.. to worry about long term health problems from real cigs.. u have to be sure of short term things like not starving.. being robbed or more important things...

we do kinda take some things for granted.. they did give out free packets of players to the troops a while back.. its all a question of priorities..

will you p-ss off dude.. i really do have to get these deckchair sorted.. i dont have time for your babble about bloody iceburgs

just imagine a soldier in the trenches telling his mate to put his ... out they can damage your health.. or the unforgettable last requested.. the cig being placed in the dying soldiers mouth by the still alive hero.. and of course the look of gratitude on the poor sods face.. he he

somehow i cant imagine an e cig being offered to the blindfolded prisoner about to be shot either.. the f-cking batteries would go flat... he he

my humour gets worse.. i aint surprized it goes over the heads of most..

but it is question of priorities and priorities can change.. i expect a lot of them to be doing just this shortly..

trog

 

[Shining Wit]

I honestly believe that the big tobacco and pharmaceutical companies are already aware of the threat, albeit small as yet, of e-smoking. In the UK tobacco products are being forced under the counter by legislation, they will not be allowed to be in public view (stupid I know but that debate's too tiresome). What's going to fill the space? The big companies will either produce their own tested and licenced e-cig product and squeeze government into outlawing unlicenced ones, or they will simply buy out the key e-cig companies around the world because they have the funds to do it. I don't honestly think that they will just do nothing.
The idea of doing a study is fine, but it has to be credible and clinically controlled to be of any value. In the UK it would cost at least a six figure sum (yes in excess of 100,000 GBP) to conduct trials to a level that would have a chance of gaining a product licence as a smoking cessation aid. The trials would take between 12 and 18 months to complete, during which time the product being tested cannot be sold, now that is a biggie!
So Mr B&H, if you would like to offer us in excess of 20 million we might be able to open negotiations!
Cheers.
John.

 

[trog100]

So Mr B&H, if you would like to offer us in excess of 20 million we might be able to open negotiations!

i wonder if it will happen.. every man has his price or so they say.. i remember skol bandits.. perhaps mr big lets mr not so big get product acceptance before stepping in or buying out....

trog

ps... god u are an ugly bugger... he he he