China Vs. USA E Liquid--Selling E Juice Based on Patriotism.

[MikeDeason]

I've read some pretty suspect claims about the E juice that's "Made in the USA".

My take is that alot of these smaller companies boasting about "Made in USA" E juice are Mom and Pop companies cooking the stuff up in their basements. We really don't know the quality of Nicotine or other ingredients or the Health and Safety practices they have implemented.

On the other hand.

China.
Leaford – An E-Smoker Forever! Blog Archive A trip to Vapor4Life’s liquid manufacturer.

For now China gets my business until I see some concrete proof that "Made in the USA" is actually not Joe Blow in a basement.

Yea, China has had issues with other items, mistakes happen, USA and China, but they are incredibly conscious about not messing up their reputation. Plus they get shot if they srew up.

.

 

[MikeDeason]

Not trying to knock a company but this is the type of claims I'm talking about for "Made in USA" is better yada yada yada

" Chinese smoke juice is notorious for being manufactured with Pesticide-Grade Nicotine, and industrial Propylene Glycol. These contaminated ingredients pose an increasing and unnecessary risk to e-cigarette users throughout the world.

*** is turning the tide by offering e-liquid that uses only Pharmaceutical and United States Pharmacopeia (USP) grade ingredients.
*** has a certificate of analysis for all of our ingredients that go into our formulas. All the formula's ingredients are FDA and FEMA approved, "

THEY MAY WELL BE TRUE!!!!!!...but why not just POST the certificate on the site???????

I emailed a request for one....never got it.

Not picking on this company....they may be one of the good ones BUT there are so many using the "Made in USA" slogan and we just don't know who the hell they are.

There needs to be some regulations for E Juice IMO

 

[CJsKee]

Yeah, Mike, I saw that claim about "pesticide-grade nicotine" and thought WTF???? He really should delete that unless he can prove it, because it is, at the least, libelous! And I know Dekang has certificates out the wazoooo for their e-liquid.

 

[Tampa2]

I'll take the Dekang e-liquid any day over someone that has "no" certificates and is probably making their liquid in a bathtub with unknown amounts of nicotine & candy flavorings. If it comes in a dark bottle, that is the 1st clue!

 

[JohnnyVapor]

While I certainly don't agree with the China bashers that have made their voice heard from time to time, I don't think that it's fair to cast some of the US manufacturers as 'mom and pop shops mixing stuff up in the basement', not to mention that some of us eat food that was made in a mom and pop shop as opposed to factory-made food, yet we don't have too many complaints about that.

I base my judgments on the quality of the received product. I've bought some quality liquids from US mixers like My Freedom Smokes and Halo, and some junky liquids from other US mixers who I won't name here. I don't believe there are any mixers out there making complete crap - it's not a good way to build a customer base.

I feel if you have any questions about the product, then ask before you buy. Challenge the seller to show certificates, photos of manufacturing facilities, or whatever burden of proof you need to make you a happy(and informed) consumer.

 

[MikeDeason]

I base my judgments on the quality of the received product.

Problem is you don't know the quality....it may taste great (double bacon cheesburgers taste great) but that doesn't tell you anything about the quantity of ingredients or the "facilities" where it was produced.

I doubt ANY "Made in USA" supplier has anywhere near the professional style set up as DEKANG.

I'm not saying USA liquid is crap but we just don't know who the hell these people are that are making it and where they are making it.

I would like to see licensing and standards....that's waay in the future I know...for these juice manufacturers.

Plus, lets give the Chinese some credit....they did invent the e cigarette or at least brought it to mass production!

 

[juicefreak]

i'll take a manufacturing clean room juice over an unknown any day of the week. i've bashed the cheap chinese quality in atomizers, but have never had a problem with their juice, except for some heaven gifts branded juice around xmas time when it first came out. coffee juice that gave me a really bad digestive upset.

i support USA suppliers if their prices aren't gouging, but i prefer chinese juice. they've been doing it a lot longer. I have used MFS juice and he mixes up chinese ingredients for double flavor, etc, so it's the same quality.

the lorann's mixes that some sell premixed, i can do myself, and would rather do it myself. that way i know what goes into it.

unless a USA supplier has certifications, lab tests and a clean room manufacturing facility like Dekang and others, I'll pass.

 

[UntamedRose]

(just off the top of my head with Little research into this yet BUT...)

China cant keep lead out of baby formula or toys, or poison out of dog food.

I think id rather take my chances with mom and pop's basement.

 

[smonomo]

When I read that at their site it put me off big time, then I saw the price of their juice and I was outta there.

It's bad business to knock the people that brought us RY4, 555, DK TAB, Marbro, etc, like that, and bad for e-cigs in general to be throwing around such statements.

 

[gashin]

The FDA tested Dekang liquid and another Chinese-produced liquid and found none of that. I believe we need to step back and look at China objectively - their success means continued investment in the U.S. If China fails, America fails and China could easily destroy America if it started selling off its dollars and treasury bills.

(just off the top of my head with Little research into this yet BUT...)

China cant keep lead out of baby formula or toys, or poison out of dog food.

I think id rather take my chances with mom and pop's basement.

 

[JohnnyVapor]

Problem is you don't know the quality....it may taste great (double bacon cheesburgers taste great) but that doesn't tell you anything about the quantity of ingredients or the "facilities" where it was produced.

I do know the quality to some level. For example let us consider My Freedom Smokes. I've ordered their base unflavored and flavored liquids from them. Both show none of the yellowing from oxidation or impurities that you find in many other liquids, including a lot of Dekang. Their flavored show some color from the flavorings used. As for the conditions of where it was produced, I can only say I've not had any problems using these liquids, so I'm not overly concerned.

I doubt ANY "Made in USA" supplier has anywhere near the professional style set up as DEKANG.

I applaud Dekang for their process control, it is indeed a very professional setup. That doesn't mean you need a 10 million dollar factory to mix e-liquids. Allow me to ask you about beer, ahh, wonderful beer. Budweiser and Miller are brewed in very pristine, austere conditions. Very clean places, professional equipment, etc. My buddy also brews beer in his house. He uses best practices, but doesn't have any certificates showing his ISO certification or anything. Didn't stop me from throwing a few back when I went over.

I'm not saying USA liquid is crap but we just don't know who the hell these people are that are making it and where they are making it.

You're not saying it directly, you're implying it in what you say. You give this image of USA mixers as bathtub gin brewers from the Prohibition era

I would like to see licensing and standards....that's waay in the future I know...for these juice manufacturers. Plus, lets give the Chinese some credit....they did invent the e cigarette or at least brought it to mass production!

Be careful what you ask for. If only licensed producers can make e-liquid, you'll shut down most of the market, creating conditions ripe for a monopoly. I like having choice. I'd like more transparency in operating conditions, sure. However, I'll still go to people's houses to eat, go to bake sales, drink homebrews, and gasp, even eat food from my own garden.

I guess in the end we all have our opinions and have to make our choices based on those. You can continue being happy with your Dekang, and I'll continue enjoying e-liquids from other sources.

 

[LostInDaJungle]

Haven't the US suppliers kind of made this problem for themselves?

You give this image of USA mixers as bathtub gin brewers from the Prohibition era

Well gee, they're the ones who got everyone so worked up about liquid quality in the first place. Now someone looks at them and says "Hey, you're not just mixing this stuff in your garage are you?"

And frankly, when US suppliers make specious claims like the ones mentioned here about the Chinese products, how can you really trust what they say about their own products?

Again, I don't want to drag down any one specific, but if I was an American company trying to market e-juice, I'd be falling all over myself showing you pictures of the Clean Room, etc... Companies claim their liquid is mixed by trained chemists in a clean room environment, etc... And yet not a word on who runs the place, who their chief chemist is, what his credentials are. Claims of stringent environmental controls and not one pic of the fridge?

On the other hand Boge has a link right on their front page...

Certificate - Shenzhen Boge Technology Co.,Ltd.

We have picture of a member in a facility in China... No one's seen the facilities in New Jersey??? How freaking odd is that?

Considering it is hard to get pharmaceutical grade nicotine in the US, there's an even greater chance these guys are buying from pesticide suppliers IMHO. If not, then the other great source for the small guys is... China and India.

Unless they want to start telling us where they get their Nic and PG and can show that those items haven't just been imported from China...

"pharmaceutical grade, certified nicotine" - Ok, so where's the certificates?? Not to mention pure nicotine is considered pharmaceutical grade which requires a license. So, where's the license?

I'm a lot more afraid of buying e-juice from a fly-by-night operation that still uses Paypal as it's payment system vs. a company like Boge who is in this for the long haul. I mean, c'mon. You can set up a clean room, hire trained chemists, etc... But you can't get a Visa merchant account? You're doing enough volume through Paypal to support the clean room, etc...?

(And you still can't posts MSDS, testing, etc...)

I think 95% of these guys are just buying high strength unflavored e-liquid from China, and flavoring it. The other 5% are the ones that really scare me.

That's just my 2 cents.

 

[Raven_Blackblade]

Dont care. I will still stick with my Johnson Creek Smoke Juice.

Also.... dark colored bottles are good for the juice and help in keeping it fresh. Remember, juice needs to be protected from sunlight much like essential oils, and beer. I would rather have dark glass bottles, than clear plastic bottles any day of the week.

 

[LostInDaJungle]

Johnson Creek at least is FDA registered, they tell you who runs the place... They are the exception for U.S. Producers. I'd still like to see them put more of that info out in clear view.

 

[7thCabal]

On the other hand Boge has a link right on their front page...

Certificate - Shenzhen Boge Technology Co.,Ltd.

Unless I missed something the certs are a little dated, do not reference nicotine purity... in fact one states that nicotine was NP (not present) in the sample submitted.

A certificate to manufacture food in an industrial manufacturing plant for e-cigs... is that like the lunch room or something? Are the nico certs somewhere else?

 

[MikeDeason]

The scary thing to me is that I could mix up juice in my basement...put up a professional looking website....pay for some internet advertising....make totally bogus claims with no chance or recriminations and sell the stuff.

What's that tv show about the guy who sells .... to bring in some extra bucks???

I could be that guy.

I prefer big liquid companies with quality control standards and facilities I can see. Especially if I'm inhaling it into my lungs.

Bring that to North America and I'm there in a heartbeat!

 

[justsomeguy]

I prefer big liquid companies with quality control standards and facilities I can see. Especially if I'm inhaling it into my lungs.

Bring that to North America and I'm there in a heartbeat!

That's what everyone thinks, until they see the pricetag that would come with it.

 

[MikeDeason]

I don't put a price on my health or peace of mind.


It's really nickles and dimes when it comes to the juice anyway.

 

[cyberwolf]

And the U.S. can't keep E. coli out of spinach or cookie dough, Salmonella out of canteloupe or Botulism out of chili (or dog food, for that matter).

(just off the top of my head with Little research into this yet BUT...)

China cant keep lead out of baby formula or toys, or poison out of dog food.

I think id rather take my chances with mom and pop's basement.

 

[Vicks Vap-oh-Yeah]

You speak in generalizations. Such a thing is just as bad as saying that 'all Hispanics are theives,' or 'all African-Americans are lazy.'

You can't lump ALL the sellers of American-made juice in the same catagory any more than you can any other group of people.....that smacks of a prejudicial mindset.

With the company you saw, and are complaining about, fine. They cast aspirations on themselves with hostile claims against the Chinese manufacturers. But DON'T paint all manufacturers with the same brush who claim American-made liquid.

You CAN purchase high-concentration Nicotine suspended in PG in this country, and NOT have it linked to the PV industry. This 'bathtub gin' imagry thing you're generating does a huge disservice to hard-working people who are just trying to get a business off the ground. Sure, right now, their businesses are small, but, just remember, Ford was a small-time operation at one time, too.

I've seen vid of JC's facilities (they were on a news spot here). Yes, they are very protective of their facilities (no storefront, no tours, etc....and yes, I DID ask), but, given the nature of what they're producing, I can see why they wouldn't let just any Joe Blow from down the street into their operation (ummmm...the potential for Nic poisoning, anyone )

Base each company on its own merits.