Chinese manufacturers, a few thoughts

[Dustyrider99]

I am in no way trying to sound like an expert in economics or business administration. I am however intelligent and disabled (way to much time on my hands to read and research).

The Chinese are fairly new to this free market idea. Not fully understanding our system and their effort to improve on what they do know has lead to so quality control issues in many industries. Not to mention the separation of the manufacturers and suppliers leads to lack of communication about faults of products and possible improvements. Also a problem is the lack of use of products in country of origin. Chinese manufacturers (and increasingly American companies) are more worried about bottom line than customer satisfaction, not understanding fully the two are linked. Chinese companies seem to be covered by a cloud of secrecy created by their government. Companies also tend to recruit workers from rural and low educated areas rather than increasing pay of trained workers looking to move up the latter.

Western vendors benefit from low cost imports giving them the ability to levy a substantial markup and still offer products at a reasonable cost to consumers.

As consumers we can voice our concerns and ideas to vendors who really have no line of communication with manufacturers. Problems most likely either end with defensive vendors who have no way of passing on information to manufacturers or /and consumers giving up on product.

While we all hate to see electronic cigs regulated by the government it is my opinion it must be regulated in some way if just to protect consumers from contaminated and faulty products. Chinese do not feel they have any interest in this since it may hurt bottom line of their own companies (many owned by government officials or even the government itself).

In the mean time the only recourse the consumer has is STOP BUYING FAULTY OR LOW QUALITY PRODUCTS. This is our only way of controlling this market until FDA gets off their high horse and starts protecting consumers instead of trying to extort money from importers.

 

[Liv2Ski]

I am in no way trying to sound like an expert in economics or business administration. I am however intelligent and disabled (way to much time on my hands to read and research).

The Chinese are fairly new to this free market idea. Not fully understanding our system and their effort to improve on what they do know has lead to so quality control issues in many industries. Not to mention the separation of the manufacturers and suppliers leads to lack of communication about faults of products and possible improvements. Also a problem is the lack of use of products in country of origin. Chinese manufacturers (and increasingly American companies) are more worried about bottom line than customer satisfaction, not understanding fully the two are linked. Chinese companies seem to be covered by a cloud of secrecy created by their government. Companies also tend to recruit workers from rural and low educated areas rather than increasing pay of trained workers looking to move up the latter.

Western vendors benefit from low cost imports giving them the ability to levy a substantial markup and still offer products at a reasonable cost to consumers.

As consumers we can voice our concerns and ideas to vendors who really have no line of communication with manufacturers. Problems most likely either end with defensive vendors who have no way of passing on information to manufacturers or /and consumers giving up on product.

While we all hate to see electronic cigs regulated by the government it is my opinion it must be regulated in some way if just to protect consumers from contaminated and faulty products. Chinese do not feel they have any interest in this since it may hurt bottom line of their own companies (many owned by government officials or even the government itself).

In the mean time the only recourse the consumer has is STOP BUYING FAULTY OR LOW QUALITY PRODUCTS. This is our only way of controlling this market until FDA gets off their high horse and starts protecting consumers instead of trying to extort money from importers.

Or we can buy American, European, Australian designed and made mods. There really are some nice products made in the western world but they cost more and IMO they are worth it. Hell you can even go to nHaler and get yourself an american made at0-mizer and make your own atty's.

 

[EricB]

As consumers we can voice our concerns and ideas to vendors who really have no line of communication with manufacturers.

Any Vendor who purchases from a manufacture in China & not a reseller definitely does have a line of communication with them. I myself purchase products from a Chinese manufacture & you would think that they think of me as a Fortune 500 company. The line of communication is definitely there. Vendors need to get in the know of what the better materials are that make a good product from China for resale & purchase from those manufacturers.

 

[Dustyrider99]

I am not saying that all China products area junk. I just have seen, not only in this industry but many more, a quality control issue along with lack of communication which has lead to poor products. I look around my home and see many items made in China, many top of the line products.

 

[EricB]

I hear ya Dusty, unfortunately manufacturers & vendors are in so much of a hurry to sell sell sell that quality control will never be 100%. It's not that hard for vendors to test batteries, usb chargers & wall chargers before they ship them out.

 

[throatkick]

I hear ya Dusty, unfortunately manufacturers & vendors are in so much of a hurry to sell sell sell that quality control will never be 100%. It's not that hard for vendors to test batteries, usb chargers & wall chargers before they ship them out.

It isn't hard for vendors to test but I have heard of very high failure rates many times.

EDIT:
I was going to answer the OP more analytically but it would get too long.
There are geopolitical considerations to your post as well. This is not strictly econ 101 or bizadmin.

When the main motive is profit, what we have is the logical and most probable conclusion.
Some Chinese dude making $2 a day is going to care if your carto has a foul taste? Let's get real.

 

[wlp5]

I agree with you, though I'm mostly worried about eliquids than devices themselves. Not just about chinese stuff, I would feel better if the production was monitored be it Chinese, UK, US, anything produced.

 

[throatkick]

I am worried about the whole thing. It is smoking that is so bad that puts my mind at ease.

The problem I have with monitoring is quite simple. It will create a huge political issue out of something that may not require it. Make juice as safe, clean etc. as possible? No doubt! Is it necessary to double or triple the price? I am not certain. Besides, from what I can see, the FDA has already used shoddy studies in order to "regulate" vaping. Where's the honesty in that and how can they be trusted if they have already engaged in such activity?

While I assume you have the best of intentions, it is not out of this world to believe that some may wish to purposely complicate the issue so as to "monitor" vaping in general.

 

[Dustyrider99]

In the 70's those of us in Michigan experience on of the worst cases of product contamination ever, a fire ......ant called PBB. As a result of investigation the source was tracked to the exact factory and even individual responsible (I do not envy this individual). This company was held responsible for ramifications and attempt at clean up.

In recent years I have seen several contaminated products tracked to Chinese manufacturers (again a very small percentage of products). Pet food containing poison, crayons with high lead content, high lead content in paint on toys.

In reading information released from investigation it seems to lead to a black hole starting at China border, stopping there and returning to importers. Some foreign manufacturers seem to have no responsibility for products they make.

I understand the FDA has shown poor judgment in trying to regulate vapes in a way to extort money from this industry and do not fully trust them to regulate without dollar signs in their sights. I admit I am at a loss in deciding who should do it but some where the consumers need to be protected just ask us in Michigan.

 

[EricB]

It isn't hard for vendors to test but I have heard of very high failure rates many times.

High failure rate is a good reason for vendors to test power cords for making sure the light starts out red on the usb charger & blinks to green every few seconds when charging a battery. There are a few simple battery tests one can do with pressing the button until 8 second cutoff or whatever plus letting it charge until the light turns green on charger to make sure battery took a full charge. If it's time consuming then the vendor needs a helping hand with testing products. My thinking is that it sure beats dealing with returns, exchanges, refunds, paying out of pocket to reship something & possibly getting a bad reputation on the forums as a vendor who ships out frequent faulty equipment. Of course something could happen even after you do your tests but in the end business will run smoother. As long as the items aren't sealed, they should be tested before shipping.

 

[tbow]

I have seen a black hole starting at our Federal jurisdiction, as well. And the larger our Federal government grows, the bigger that hole grows, proportionally. In the spirit of full disclosure, I admit that I run afoul of regulatory agencies at just about every turn - from raw milk to home births, and the list goes on from there. So no, I've not found that the Federal regulatory machine (or State cog...) is functioning in a judicious and integrity-laden manner, on any level. I'm not a fan of further regulatory steps, in this situation, most especially.

But what I have seen work beautifully is the on-the-ground response of the market. Word of mouth, communication, and the freedom we exert to do business with (or not) those vendors we choose can have - and has had - a significant impact. The more we practice due diligence on our parts, by staying abreast of research and findings, by shining light on the fly by night operations, by warning others of scams as we come across them, the more quickly we starve the disreputable companies. Conversely, by praising the ingenuity and integrity of those whose business models we support, and by continuing to take our business to those companies, we reward the things we value.

Look at the changes and innovations that have taken place in the vaping market in the past two years. They're astronomical, in many regards. And they're coming from within countries whose confines have not stifled that drive. We don't have such a variety of domestically made liquids because the State set standards - they're available because people wanted better, and so they made it better. The devices available to us now - most of them have not arisen from China's think tanks, or BATF guidelines - they've come from the offices, workshops, sketchpads, and tinkerings of people who have said, "I can do better!" And they did!

This cottage industry has exploded, and the customer base continues to widen, just as quickly and well as there are quality vendors and manufacturers willing to take the risks to innovate and expand. Not a one of us came here through a recommend from the US Atty. General's office -- we came to vaping through word of mouth, through the shared experience and wisdom of others in the market, from doing our own research and coming to our own conclusions. We came in search of something better, and we find it at every turn; not because of the Federal government, but rather in spite of it.

I haven't found my favorite vendors through some State certification list, or cleared through health department permits. I've found them through other satisfied customers who took the time to give feedback. I've found them through my own legwork, from the gracious effort of others. I look forward to more improvement, and to doing business with more outstanding individuals who don't wait for someone else to tell them how to do it to a minimum standard, but who decide it can be done better, and do. I'd hate to turn that power over to someone whose standards are not likely to be as stringent as my own, and see the industry innovation grind to a halt as it settles into those minimums and learns to rely on the excuses we see so often: "it's up to code," "it meets the minimum requirements according to ASTM...", "it falls within the legally allowable limits for xyz toxin"... Right now, I'd say we're doing a pretty impressive job of protecting ourselves, much moreso than I would trust a biased entity to do on our behalf.

 

[trailblazer6]

Thanks tbow for stating my feeling per bate um. We as consumers will fix any problem in the market. We don't need government intervention from any government. And as for US based vendors dealing with what turns out to be faulty product. It all comes down to How they deal with the product. Do they ship out a replacement free of charge or offer a in house credit or do they instruct you to ship the defective product to the manufacture for replacement. China will have to comply with the Global Standard if they wish to compete in the global market.