Our Goal / Objective

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WillPower

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Mar 25, 2009
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When dealing with Congress and Government, we should begin with clearly stating, and having a shared understanding among us, of our objective--what we are requesting.

With my limited participation in this forum, I believe the following is what we are looking for:

We seek the exemption of personal personal vaporization products known as electonic cigarette and the e-liquid, low-concentration nicotine suspended in propylene gylcol or vegetable glycerin with or without favoring, from the Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act of 1938, Section 505 (21 USC 355).

We request that this exemption is granted to all manufacturers and vendors so that electronic cigarettes and e-liquid are allowed to freely manufactured, marketed, and distributed to consumers in the U.S.

Rationale:

Tabacco smoking is well-known to be a major threat to public health in the U.S. According to Center for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), over 400,000 Americans die every year from smoking-related diseases such as lung cancer and enphysema. Second-hand smoke alone accounts for 38,000 deaths per year. Including the healthcare costs and lost productivity, smoking costs the U.S. $167 billion every year. Unquestionably, introducing an effective nicotine replacement therapy and smoking cessation product is extremely critical to both enhancing the public health and economic prosperity in the U.S.

Electonic cigarettes, though they are referred to as cigarette, contain no tabacco products of any kind. These devices simply turn the low concentration nicotine solution into vapor--much like the "smoke" machine used in the entertainment industry. Hence, the vapor from electronic cigarettes does not contain any toxic chemicals and known carcinogens such as tar, formaldehyde, and ammonia that comprise a large portion of cigarette and tabacco smoke.

Our rationale for seeking the exemption of electronic cigarette is threefold. First, use of electronic cigarettes, commonly referred to e-smoking, is found to be an extremely effective nicotine replacement therapy. Although the scientific clinical trials of this product, as required by the Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act, have not been conducted, a large number of the U.S. consumers used this product and stopped smoking. They found that the electronic cigarettes are exceptionally effective nicotine replacement therapy, unparallel to any other methods currently available in the market such as nicotine patches, nicotine gums and nicotine inhalers.

Second, the electronic cigarettes are already widely accepted and used in the U.S. market. This is a unusal circumstance compared to other nicotine replacement and smoking cessation products. None of these other products had garnered such acceptance and use prior to their official introduction. If electronic cigarettes are withdrawn from the market, many people may need to resort back to smoking conventional cigarettes.

Third, the epidemic nature of the public health and economic problems caused by tabacco smoking demand an immediate solution. Withdrawing such effective nicotine replacement therapy, which is already widely used in the U.S. market would lead to catastrophic consequences.

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I personally think that requesting a short-term (say 5 years?) moratorium on the enforcement of section 505 would go much easier than permanent exemption. Five years or so might give manufacturers and vendors to go thru the approval process. Not very likely that Congress and FDA will give permanent exemption.
 

SillyPutty

New Member
Mar 31, 2009
3
0
NY, USA
Some random thoughts on the legal issue (I'm bored, the Islanders are getting their butts kicked in NHL action as I type this):

1) legal experts are needed, since common sense has nothing to do with civil law. You need to fight fire with fire. We need lawyers, folks...good ones, too!

2) This may seem a bit snarky, but it seems to me that we need to find nicotine addicted lawyers, convert them with free e-cigs (personal vaporizers), and make converts out of them to fight the battle for themselves, pro bono. Heh heh.

3) Common sense and logic can only be applied to the public/PR battle. Remember that point...it may be the key to winning this thing!

4) Politicians respond to money and public pressure, in that order (unless there is a close election at hand and a few swing votes hang on this issue...doubtful for quite some time). We have no money, and that leaves us one avenue and one avenue only.

5) Ignore Pols for now...work on the PR and develop some really good talking points and slogans (catchy and honest...sort of like a vapers' response to those "Truth about tobacco" ads).

6) Humor wins over legalistic arguments and desperate pleas when it comes to unpopular things like smoking (even vaping).

SUGGESTION:

Make them (laymen) laugh, open their minds and dispel the misconceptions non-smokers will have from all those scary write-ups in the media about vaping. Enlist analog smokers in the battle by converting them to vaping. Make noise by using Internet-savvy media plugs (it's free, or very close to it). Shame Pols by alluding to their hypocrisy, in a funny manner. Find a lawyer desperate for a cause, and find out what they think of this issue, and change strategy accordingly.

My personal hope is that we can get a study done to determine the potential harm on vaping; toxic metals/residues from manufacturing the atomizer? Toxicity of the juice after being "atomized"? Likely effects of vaping long-term (until a long-term study is complete)? These questions need to be answered by hard factual evidence to make me feel comfy about vaping long-term...but the benefits seem to outweigh the risks for current smokers, so if it's a question of getting an exemption from exiting regulations until studies are complete, then that is cool, too. I have no problems with FDA requiring approval and inspections if they make reasonable accommodations for us, given the likely alternatives to using this product family.

/rant

SillyPutty
 

bwood12043

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Jul 29, 2008
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Just thought some might find this interesting reading:

One of the reader comments to an article (The House Passes Bill Giving FDA Control of Tobacco Industry} posted on the 912project website, www.the912project.com, reads as follows:

"I read a few articles on e-cigarettes. No tobacco, just nicotine and smokeless. I found it very interesting that all those that benefit from the taxes on cigarettes are suddenly concerned about the smoker and question the safety of e-cigarettes for the smoker. What a joke – when have they ever cared about the health of the smoker, they have spent years promoting hatred and discrimination toward the smoker about the harmful effects of secondhand smoke which is based on supposition and deception, to justify punitive tax increases. These taxes fund billions to pharmaceutical companies, anti-smoking groups, lobbyists, the American Lung Association, the American Heart Association, the American Cancer Society and now SCHIP. In order to keep billions flowing to these organizations, it’s in their best interest to endorse this deception. Needless to say they are nervous and panicked about losing their funding with the introduction of a smokeless and tobacco-free alternative. It isn’t about secondhand smoke and never has been."
 

WillPower

Senior Member
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Mar 25, 2009
79
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MA, USA
BWood made a very important point about the monied interests in this political process. I would like to add this to his commentst:

Monied interests like pharmaceutical companies are not just "buying" the vote in Congress or FDA. They also provide regulatory and legal arguments that these politicians and bureaucrats can to use convince and justify to their contituents. Arguments like "I got money from these people and they want e-cigs gone" is not going to fly obviously.

In my view, they got a few real good arguments, especially their regulatory one. All new drugs have to go through FDA approval process. Believe me, e-cigs, as they are sold now, they are a new drug in the legal world. While Nicorette was on the market after their FDA approval, NicLite (nicotine water) still needed to go through FDA approval. Why shouldn't e-cigs be subjected to the same regulatory scrutiny, mandated by the law, to which every other nicotine delivery system had been subjected?

BTW, I believe it is a misconception that FDA is trying to "ban" e-cigs. They are already illegal due to an existing regulation. It is a matter when they are going take action on the illegal marketing and distribution of e-cigs. We are the ones who are seeking an exemption or moratorium on enforcement.

I believe the following "talking points" address this, contrasting e-cigs to other nicotine replacement therapy methods:

1) demonstrated effectiveness through wide acceptance -- while Nicorette and NicLite were withdrawn from or not available in the market, we didn't see many people trying to extract and inject nicotine into chewing gum and bottled water for their personal use.

2) unintended harm due to wide usage -- prior to their official introduction to market, to my knowledge, none of these NRTs had the level of acceptance and usage that e-cigs have already gained. At this point, withdrawal would cause unintended harm to those customers who adopted e-cigs in good faith.

3) protection of the rights of the smoking public -- The tradition of smoking predates the U.S. by a thousand years. Recent years, this freedom of smoking has been greatly impinged upon, though understandably, due to the concerns of public health (such as regulations prohibiting public in-door smoking, etc). However, smokers have every right to develop and advance new technologies to regain this lost freedom by addressing the public health concerns.

Unlike other nicotine delivery systems that simply provide nicotine, e-cigs represent a natural and inevitable evolution of the technologies involved in the long standing history and tradition of smoking. E-smoking preseves the smoking behavior as well as the nicotine delivery.

My 1 ml of PG (2 cents).

p.s. I agree with the need of lawyer as well. What I wrote need fact-checking (generally correct). I am a decent research scientist though. :D
 

the88thcrazy

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Mar 28, 2009
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I think that e-cigs should be open to taxing like tobacco products. there needs to be an incentive for these senators and representatives.

personally, i think full FDA regulation of the device is a great idea. product could be taxed, and it could be made much more efficient through us production and marketing. would make it more expensive (demand for product + taxing), but i think everyone's overall experience would be much greater.
 

WillPower

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Mar 25, 2009
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MA, USA
I just got the chance to review the FDA letter to an e-cig supplier in the other thread. It appears that the FDA is, indeed, relying on the regulatory authority granted by the provisions of section 505 in asserting their jurisdiction over e-cigs. In this case, I would reaffirm my support for the suggested goals and objectives in my first post to this thread.

To summarize, we have three possible approaches to protect the interest of our community:

1) keep the device and 0-nic liquid legal
2) seek a 5-year moritorium on enforcement of section 505 on e-cigs.
3) seek a permanent exempt of section 505 for e-cigs.

Somebody claimed to be Bill Godshall is suggesting that we should campaign to classify e-cigs as tobacco product, thus avoiding any "ban." Maybe he is who he claims to be or maybe not--but it does not matter. I don't support this at all. Being classified as tobacco comes with a lot of regulatory baggages (smoking ban, taxes, etc.), not to mention the public stigma of tobacco smoking. Indeed, if we are going to make an effort to amend the Waxman's proposed legistration, why not just request a moratorium?

I would suggest that we go with 1 and 2 above.
 

WillPower

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Mar 25, 2009
79
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MA, USA
Lobbyists and money are needed-big guns with influence-they have already taxed everything to death-enough! We need a defense fund.

I concur 100%. We need to better organize this "campaign." Get volunteers, donations, and set up a website. In particular, we should:

1) prepare a press kit and put it online--our talking points, picture of e-cigs, diagrams, etc. all put together in a kit that press can use.

2) prepare a legistrative briefing kit and put it online--similar to the press kit, but for lawmakers, which should include suggested amendment or resolution that we seek.

Every monied interest in the political process does this to make it easier for lawmakers and press to get on their side. We should too.

This would be more legitimate, if it is organized by us, the consumer or the general public than suppliers.

I, for one, am willing to pitch in. Any volunteers?
 
How about a world wide campaign, focusing on countries banning or who have already banned e-ciggaretes for sale such as Hong Kong and Australia?

I concur 100%. We need to better organize this "campaign." Get volunteers, donations, and set up a website. In particular, we should:

1) prepare a press kit and put it online--our talking points, picture of e-cigs, diagrams, etc. all put together in a kit that press can use.

2) prepare a legistrative briefing kit and put it online--similar to the press kit, but for lawmakers, which should include suggested amendment or resolution that we seek.

Every monied interest in the political process does this to make it easier for lawmakers and press to get on their side. We should too.

This would be more legitimate, if it is organized by us, the consumer or the general public than suppliers.

I, for one, am willing to pitch in. Any volunteers?
 

WillPower

Senior Member
ECF Veteran
Mar 25, 2009
79
0
MA, USA
The following excerpt is from AP:

---------------
NEW YORK – A liquid morphine painkiller given by family caregivers to dying patients can remain on the market, federal regulators have decided after hearing protests over their decision to remove it. The Food and Drug Administration had announced last week that it was ordering manufacturers to stop making 14 medications including the liquid morphine. All were developed so long ago they had never received FDA approval.

But on Thursday, the FDA's Dr. Douglas Throckmorton told The Associated Press the morphine liquid will remain on the market until it's replaced by an approved version or some equivalent therapy.

The reversal was welcomed by experts in hospice care and pain relief. One doctors group had told the FDA that last week's order would "cause extreme suffering for many patients who are nearing the end of life."
-------------------

Unapproved yet, but remain on the market until replaced by an approved version--this is probably the best case scenario we can aim for.

An unconditional and unrestricted exemption of e-cigs from the Food, Drug, and Cosmetics Act is extremely unlikely. Think from the lawmakers and FDA's point of view. If they provide an unrestricted exemption, can you imagine the political backlash if e-cig users start dropping like flies because of heavy metal or nicotine poisoning? Or e-cigs catch on like wildfire among teenagers and little kids?

Keep in mind that we are not offering them any self-regulation of e-cig industry. In addition, Morphine is at least controlled by Controlled Substance Act. Nicotine is not.

The second best option (among realistically probable options)? Case-by-case enforcement of FDCA for e-cigs, considering their intended (promoted) usage case-by-case. Which is exactly what FDA is doing now.

FDA is a cash (budget) strapped government agencies. If they go case-by-case examining the intended usage, as they claimed they were going to do, they won't be able remove e-cigs completely. Nor e-cigs would be a high-priority for them, until e-cigs show significant risk to public health.

In this case, FDA and politicians get their CYA cover, "e-cigs were illegal and we have been taking them off the market", just in case. Consumers don't get deprived of e-cigs. A convenient compromise of sort.

My 1 ml of PG (2 cents)
 
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