clone vs. authentic
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I haven't read though this whole thread.
But that isn't true at all. You can get a $200 mod that is garbage, and a $25 clone (ehpro nemesis for example) that is great.
I have clones and genuine mods and rda's. They all have their own issues and niggles. No device is perfect. Whatever product you buy, you will need to research it before buying online, and if in person look at the device carefully and do a bit of research as well.
Also, each device may have slight variances due to tolerance and qa issues.
But that isn't true at all. You can get a $200 mod that is garbage, and a $25 clone (ehpro nemesis for example) that is great.
I have clones and genuine mods and rda's. They all have their own issues and niggles. No device is perfect. Whatever product you buy, you will need to research it before buying online, and if in person look at the device carefully and do a bit of research as well.
Also, each device may have slight variances due to tolerance and qa issues.
Wow my thread really took off, thats cool. On average a authentic high-end mod is well worth it. It has greater compatibility, and the quality materials used allow for maximum conductivity. Most all clones i have come across have in complete junk. Drippers can be pretty good since they tend to be simple.
Buy a GGTS, a Ithaka, both authentic, and you are set. You will have a amazing vape experience no matter what and both pieces should outlive you. Throw in a Evolv 2 kick and youll be in vape heaven. I stacked 2 18650 batteries using a extention tube and have it set up with twisted quad coils. Now if only I can find a place with the piece in stock that allows you to use any drip tip (I like very long drip tips). Where to buy a GG you ask? Well if I can ever find the classifieds here so I can post on it, you can get one lol. Been waiting almost 2 weeks and I am still not verified (i used paypal method).
Buy a GGTS, a Ithaka, both authentic, and you are set. You will have a amazing vape experience no matter what and both pieces should outlive you. Throw in a Evolv 2 kick and youll be in vape heaven. I stacked 2 18650 batteries using a extention tube and have it set up with twisted quad coils. Now if only I can find a place with the piece in stock that allows you to use any drip tip (I like very long drip tips). Where to buy a GG you ask? Well if I can ever find the classifieds here so I can post on it, you can get one lol. Been waiting almost 2 weeks and I am still not verified (i used paypal method).
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I wouldn't buy either. But if I had to, it would be the original just to support the originator of that mod.
I am paying for the device. Sometimes for the aesthetics. For instance, the OliveR by pdib and a Gus Lord that matches an old fountain pen I still use. I do not want to pay companies to rip off other designs.
Well, that says a lot. I have paid good money for a flashlight which,
Perhaps if you bought an authentic mod, you wouldn't feel that way. Do the research, of course. Even among the authentics, some are made better than others.
Dime a dozen on the box mods? Well, sure, nearly anybody can put one together in an Altoids tin. But to say the Reo or the OliveR are not original designs is disingenuous. One is a rugged work horse, and the other is a beautifully designed, hand crafted piece of highly functional art.
As Coldrake said, preposterous at best. You either left a ton of expenses out on purpose, or you really don't understand how things work in most countries.
And when you start building hundreds or more of these (hopefully with your own design and look) be sure to let us know. And don't be upset if somebody starts pumping out thousands of copies and selling them on the cheap.
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I want to know where you guys get your clones... i have the so called "high end" clones i spent near $100 on. I also have a GGTS, other high end authentics, even paid $450 for a 26650 mech with the pieces that actually conduct the electricity being 100% pure copper. NO clone I have tried -and its been a lot- gets the electricity to the coils like the authentic mods. I can get vape clouds twice as big yet cooler than my clones thanks to the far superior transfer of electricity. I think some of you dont realize hiw expensive (especially nowadays) quality metal that conducts electricity is. These indeed ARENT flashlights, they are APVs. Also, authentics come with floating pins, repelcement pins, 801, 901, 510 adapters, many times built right into the device. Thats a big added bonus imo. I havent spent much more money on authentic mods/attys than I have clones, and for the extra money I get a much better user experience, and in the time 5 clones would of been used and replaced, my authentic stuff will still be going strong. And if I have to endure the pain of scratching my expensive mod... cape cod cloths to save the day.
P.S. 100% pure copper contact pieces isnt worth the insane price hike. I am returning that $450 mech mod I mentioned I bought. It is a true beast, but doesnt perform better than anything else I have. Also, there is a limit.... I feel kinda stupid paying $450... it came with a matching 33mm atty as well, but still. If I was rich I would keep it but alas I am not. Mods/attys have a very powerful lure when it comes to impulse buys I have discovered.
P.S.S If you enjoy your clone a lot... more power to you. I wish I could be satisfied by something so much cheaper. I guess since I switched from cigars not light cigs are anything I require lots of vapor to come close to comparing.
P.S. 100% pure copper contact pieces isnt worth the insane price hike. I am returning that $450 mech mod I mentioned I bought. It is a true beast, but doesnt perform better than anything else I have. Also, there is a limit.... I feel kinda stupid paying $450... it came with a matching 33mm atty as well, but still. If I was rich I would keep it but alas I am not. Mods/attys have a very powerful lure when it comes to impulse buys I have discovered.
P.S.S If you enjoy your clone a lot... more power to you. I wish I could be satisfied by something so much cheaper. I guess since I switched from cigars not light cigs are anything I require lots of vapor to come close to comparing.
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I've got some of the new TOBECO black edition Kayfun clones that are everybit as good as the originals. I've also got a few from FT and noname ebay models that are JUNK. Same goes with mods. Some are great, everybit as good as the originals, some aren't. With clones you pay's yer money and you takes yer chances.
I have 2 authentic nemesis and a cloned nemesis....the clone has less voltage drop. I have 6 authentic kayfuns and 1 clone. The authentics are better but not 80 bucks worth of better. Original Tailfun beats the clone....but by $160? Nope. I buy what I like and use what I want. I'm all for supporting the mod makers....and I have the luxury of being able to do that. But I'm more in favor of seeing people get to enjoy the devices they want to use and can afford. Its ridiculous to think only a certain tax bracket should have the joy of a kayfun screwed to a nice dna30.....or a Stillare dripper on a nice copper mech. Buy whatever you want and don't let people make you feel bad about it.....but don't complain if your clone doesn't work. Its a gamble.
Tobeco is one of the clone makers I stay away from. Not a good success story for me. lol
Thing is with most Authentic, if something does get by q.c., then it's usually exchangeable or refundable. With clones it's hope for the best, and accept the worst. Even if it is returnable, it's often not worth the added price of postage to pursue. Some venders will send replacement parts though, but find often the ain'g worth chit.
What originator of the mod? Do you think Hana came up with the first box mod in history?
I can assure you they did not. They just cloned someone elses box mod, tossed, someone elses chip in it, etched their own logo on the outside and charged $275 for it.
And people like you will pay it. Why? Not because of the design which is NOT original. Not because of the chip which is NOT theirs. You'll pay that much for the logo, because showing off is just that important to you.
You're paying for the bling. For instance, can you tell me the precise amount of voltage drop you get from your OliveR right now without looking it up or going to measure it first? No? Then you clearly aren't paying for the function. You're paying for the appearance. The bling. The ability to show off. Nothing more.
Perhaps if you actually did your research you would know more about the problems the majority of authentic mods have. Authentic Nemesis mods have the same crunchy button problems of the clones. Authentic Turtle Ship mods have problems with the buttons and battery rattle. Original King mods have problems with the locking rings. Etc.... If you can find a problem with a 1:1 clone then I can assure you the same problem exists on the original.
The Reo is just a generic box mod with a bottom feed dripper built in. I can assure you that no one there invented the box mod, nor the bottom feed dripper. In fact the first Reos used cartomizers, and not ones made by Reo. They didn't start using the bottom feed rebuildable atomizer until they cloned someone elses.
Your precious OliveR is nothing more than a Silver Bullet clone made out of wood. Something I could build myself in an afternoon for less than $30.
$45 chip. $5 for the aluminum box, $10 in buttons, $10 for the 510 connector, maybe $0.5 in wire and $0.1 in epoxy. About half an hour assembly time.
If you think there's more to it than that then you don't know much about production.
I've already built my own mech mod. It's not hard. Quite easy in fact. Took about 5 hours total. It's not the prettiest mod out there, but I wasn't trying to make a pretty mod, I was just bored one afternoon and thought "what the heck" and built one.
You should try it sometime. Build your own mech mod. Perhaps if you did, and found out how easy and cheap it really is, you wouldn't be so quick to hand over hundreds of dollars to someone who spent 10 minutes cutting threads onto a bunch of prefab tubes you could have bought for $10.
Nope; whether it's really fine machined doesn't determine if it is a mech, it just determines how expensive its going to be.
It's really the battery that does the work.
Use the wrong battery, and it could REALLY kick you like a mule!
Why?
I can buy a similar aluminum box kit for less than $4. $10 for the buttons. $10 for the 510 connector. $45 for the chip. Less than $1 for the wires, solder and epoxy used. Oh yeah, and $2 for the plastic battery box.
That's a total of just $72.
It would take MAYBE a half hour of assembly time and that's it.
What is preposterous is you thinking it costs significantly more than that. Go to any gun store. Ask to see the cheapest gun they sell and then ask yourself which is more complicated and difficult to make, that cheap gun with 20+ tiny moving parts, or a Hana Modz device that costs 5 times as much and only has 3 prefabricated buttons that move.
I can buy new rear shocks and springs for my Mustang for less than a Hana Modz box. Don't even try to justify the price of the Hana, it's all bling, and you're paying them around $200 per unit in pure profit just to show off if you buy one. You could build the exact same thing yourself for less than half the price, and it would be absolutely identical in every way to Hana's box.
It's not only the battery that does the work.
Just an FYI for you here....
The difference between a brass Nemesis clone and an authentic GP Paps is 5 watts in favor of the clone if using a .2 ohm coil and the exact same battery.
Reasonable to you is not always reasonable to the designer. If a great design is made by a person who just happens upon it by sheer luck on his or her first try with no real money invested in the thing and they somehow can afford to put it into the mass market without selling off the kids, the house, a kidney, etc. I might buy into this ideology.
However, the type of resources you are talking about are in the millions of dollars, not tens of thousands. A clone has no need to risk market failure as the risk has been taken already. A short run item may just cost ten grand, for a simple item. something like an atty or a mod is going to run into the many tens of thousands. How many folks do you know who have that sort of expendable income to risk?
Lets say it does cost just $75 to make a mod you sell them for $150 and put that money right back into making 2000 more, your profit is zero. Your sales were $75,000 and you make nada.
Along comes China cloning your work, logo or not, and your potential customers are now gone. They don't need to buy a real one the clone is a perfect 1:1 copy. If that perfect copy did not exist the only route would be to buy the real deal, ie. save your pennies.
Maurice
I wonder if anybody uses authentic gold spoons, or just the common steel clones............
Average, I choose not to respond to your false assumptions regarding my knowledge and motivations.
OK, so you can do this and keep up with demand for hundreds or thousands of units. Try taking that business plan to the bank. Don't forget to pay your accountant well - they'll need to be very creative.
I intend to do just that. I bought an e-pipe that really disappointed me and have already sketched out a couple of ideas. The first will be a mechanical and if I like it, I'll try one with either a DNA or that Chinese 35W board. I will be borrowing a friend's wood lathe and some tools I have on hand. There is no way I will spend the money to gear up for multiple production runs - these will just be for myself. That should keep it at the fun/hobby level for me.
OK, so you can do this and keep up with demand for hundreds or thousands of units. Try taking that business plan to the bank. Don't forget to pay your accountant well - they'll need to be very creative.
I intend to do just that. I bought an e-pipe that really disappointed me and have already sketched out a couple of ideas. The first will be a mechanical and if I like it, I'll try one with either a DNA or that Chinese 35W board. I will be borrowing a friend's wood lathe and some tools I have on hand. There is no way I will spend the money to gear up for multiple production runs - these will just be for myself. That should keep it at the fun/hobby level for me.
I wonder if anybody uses authentic gold spoons, or just the common steel clones............
Just silver here, more common than gold. They happen to be several generations old so price isn't or rather wasn't a factor. They'll get passed on to one of the kids some day.
The SS flatware we use more often is also a set from my wife's grandmother made in America when we still made stuff here.
BTW the first spoons were wood or bone, later silver, gold, pewter, or other metals.
Maurice
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Some clones are better than other clones. From my experience Hcigar clones have better quality although certain products still have their downfalls.
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