Clones
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Full disclosure: I was once one of those folks atop my moral soapbox preaching of the evils of clones. I was proud to let everyone know how I was completely against clones and the companies that made them. In my defense, secret handshake groups and elite level members only attys weren't a thing back then. Furthermore, the clones of the old days generally sucked. I have no problem paying a premium for a product that a company took pride in making a product and does their best to make them available. Like E-Phoenix, Svoemesto, StattQualm, ProVape, Vicious Ant, REO....but Nareg and his ilk can go fly a kite.
I have both Authentic and "Clone" RDA's. The thing you have to Remember is a 1:1 Clone of a Poor Performing Authentic RDA is going to be a Poor Performing Clone.
This this Doesn't have Anything to due with the RDA being a Clone. It's the Design that dictates performance.
Not to say that some Clones out there might Not have Poor Quality O-Rings, O-Rings that are Too Loose or Too Tight, Funky Post Screw Threads, or Funky Post Screws. But that seems to be the case with Authentic RBA's also.
BTW - Here is something I posted awhile back...
I worked with an Owner of a Company that made Very High End Knives. Extremely Tight Tolerances and the Highest End Materials. The Fit and Finish was Superb.
One day I go to his shop and he was packaging some of his Knives in White Boxes. And not the Normal Presentations Boxes.
I asked him what he was doing? Did he run out of the Good Boxes. Or was this just a Cost Cutting Measure. LOL. He told me he was making Knock-Offs. The same knife only with Less Workmanship and the Blade Material wasn't as good.
Said that he was tired of trying to Fight people Copying his products. That there was no Real Way to Stop It. So why not make his Own Knock-Offs and at least make Some Money of them?
Kinda an Interesting Twist when you think about it.
Why Do People Knowingly Buy Clones?
I don't thank people will be buying clones in the same way they use to. If ordered from China because of the tariffs as I understand it, you pay the price listed then after it arrives you pay the tariff.
In other words you've paid for it twice.
I thank most people will buy from USA sellers. Everything is probably going to be so expensive there will less difference between clones and authentic.
In other words you've paid for it twice.
I thank most people will buy from USA sellers. Everything is probably going to be so expensive there will less difference between clones and authentic.
I like clones. They give average Joe like me a chance to try out great devices that we never would get for the price of a real one.
I would never buy any atty for 200$ no matter how much people rave about it in internet, no way.
But a clone for 15-25$ I’m ready to try and see if I like it.
I know cloning is very bad for companies that make the original. But I would’t buy the original anyway so it’s not their loss if a buy a cheap clone of their device.
I would never buy any atty for 200$ no matter how much people rave about it in internet, no way.
But a clone for 15-25$ I’m ready to try and see if I like it.
I know cloning is very bad for companies that make the original. But I would’t buy the original anyway so it’s not their loss if a buy a cheap clone of their device.
This will also drive up prices of authentics since almost all of them are made in China anyway.
The current tarriffs are only for AIO kits and batteries.
IF the next phase goes into effect it will be components.
VTA LEADS THE FIGHT AGAINST TARIFFS!
The Trump Administration has issued three lists of Harmonized Tariff Schedule (HTS) subheadings for products imported from China on which it proposes significant tariffs. Two of those lists directly impact the vapor industry. From the beginning, your Vapor Technology Association has been fully invested in the fight to convince the Trump Administration to remove the tariffs on vapor devices (List #2) and vapor components (List #3), when no other industry trade association has yet to oppose, comment or testify.
List # 2 - Vapor Device Tariff
On July 24, 2018, VTA’s Board President, Brittani Cushman, testified at the International Trade Commission before the United States Trade Representative and various Administration agency representatives in opposition to the 25% tariff that the Trump Administration proposed on finished vapor devices or kits.
Specifically, Ms. Cushman testified that, “the imposition of a 25% tariff would directly and radically increase the retail price of a vapor device, placing the burden of the tariff squarely on the U.S. consumer.” Further, Inc.com covered Ms. Cushman’s testimony as follows: “The proposed tariff ‘would decimate this young and burgeoning U.S. industry,’ Brittani Cushman, president of the Vapor Technology Association, told the U.S. International Trade Commission at a recent public hearing.”
Then, on July 23, 2018, VTA submitted its written objections (also known as comments) on USTR Docket No. 2018-0018 in opposition to the vapor device tariff contained in Harmonized Tariff Schedule 8543.70.99. Despite extensive opposition by companies in many industries, the Trump Administration only removed five of the 284 HTS subheadings from the original list of tariffs.
As such, on August 23, 2018, the 25% tariff on all finished vapor devices / kits went into effect. What this means is that as of August 23, any company importing a vapor device (complete kit) into the U.S. from China must pay an additional 25%.
List #3 - Vapor Component Tariff
While the Administration was considering the proposed tariffs on List #2, it announced a third and much larger list of proposed tariffs. List #3 included a proposed tariff of 10%, which the Administration shortly thereafter suggested increasing to 25%, on all vapor components and parts. The tariffs proposed in List #3 would separately cover all parts, including coils, and components of vapor devices - mods, tanks, atomizers, cartridges/pods, mouthpieces (with or without nicotine). Notwithstanding the Administration’s decision on List #2, VTA continued to press the case.
On August 20, 2018, VTA Executive Director, Tony Abboud, was the lone industry representative testifying at the International Trade Commission in opposition to the even more draconian second set of vapor tariffs being recommended by the United States Trade Representative. Mr. Abboud laid out the top 5 reasons (see insert below) that vapor parts should be removed from List #3. Those hearings, which occurred over 6 days and involved more than 375 witnesses, just concluded this week.
After his testimony, Mr. Abboud was interviewed on CCTV and explained why this issue was of great concern to all the manufacturers, distributors, importers and retailers in the vapor industry and the impact that this new tariff could have on vape industry consumers.
On September 6, 2018, VTA will submit its second set of written comments objecting to the new tariffs and asking the Administration to remove the subheading (HTS 8543.90.88), which includes vapor parts, from List #3. But, as was the case with List #2, the applicable subheading includes other non-vapor products. For example, in List #3, the subheading covering vapor parts and components - HTS 8543.90.88 – also covers parts for particle accelerators. For this reason - and given the USTR’s decision regarding List #2 - VTA believes that any comments presented on September 6, 2018, will not convince USTR to remove the HTS subheading covering vapor components issue from List #3. In other words, we fully expect the Trump Administration to impose new tariffs on the vapor parts and components outlined above in the near future. This tariff, which is separate from the 25% tariff being imposed on vapor kits, will be either 10% or 25% and will be applicable to the coils, tanks, mods, pods/atomizers, etc., that are imported separately from complete kits.
So What Do We Do?
Understanding the geopolitical realities of the tariff situation, VTA already has begun preparing its legal request to the Trump Administration to exclude, i.e., remove, the HTS subheadings that are specific to vapor devices and vapor parts from the lists of tariffs. This separate process will be pursued with the USTR. Under the eight-digit subheadings at issue, there are more precise 10-digit subheadings that specifically relate to vapor products. VTA will be making the case for vapor products specifically and will be submitting a formal request on behalf of its members to the Trump Administration to exclude specific products from the tariff list. That request will include the targeted information necessary to secure an exclusion which, if granted, will bring significant relief to the industry. All we ask from our members is that if you want to be included, respond to our requests for information.
This endeavor will be time consuming, costly to VTA, and difficult. But, just as it led the way by conducting the industry’s first full review of the science on flavors and cessation in response to the flavor ANPRM, VTA’s rapidly growing Board of Directors has stepped up again to defend the industry on this critical business issue.
If you have questions or would like more information, please email us at guidance@vaportechnology.org.
Otherwise, stay tuned for more information and THANK YOU for all you do to defend vapor!
Where do you think most authentics come from.
I can understand a lot of people buying clones. Sure there are a lot of good clones out there, and I won't get in the way of people buying them for reasons they might have a tight budget or can't be bothered competing in Facebook groups. For what ever reason, as long as they are not smoking the ciggies, that's all that matters.
No, you don't always get what you pay for.
My Kennedy clone surpasses the authentic in every single way. Better orings, beefier insulator, smoother airflow, better flavor, slightly better conductivity. Even the screws are top notch and the goldplating and engravings are stunningly beautiful (subjective of course).
15$ for the clone, 100$ for the authentic.
The Layercake had several flaws in the beginning. The high probability of a hard short isn't something I'd call "good quality" for example, that's what I call "overpriced, dilettantish engineered junk". Sure, they fixed the issue after some time, but when I have to pay a fortune for an item, it'd better be worth the money from the start, without the need of the users to correct the flaws.
I 100% agree with you.i own a real and a clone Kennedy trickster and the clone is way better.the 2 Kennedy 25's i own almost same thing.seems as if the cloners hear our complaints and change with what we the customer says.the people that make the "authentic" dont care what we say.by the way I own the first series of layer cake and it just sucked in generalbut I loved the way the top cap looked and I got that buyer's remorse
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