Cloud chasing and sub ohm foolishness

[AttyPops]

I'm not entirely sure how I'm deflecting. I agree that if the coil was intended to have such a low impedance, something unintended will happen. I just assumed that this was not the case and a failure happened. I was giviing them the benefit of the doubt.

Sounds very similar to what I used to run as an ADV myself. Personally I was very skeptical with the whole microcoil fad for various logical reasons that varied from safety to heat concentration. But hey, I tried it. I liked it. YMMV.

The deflecting quip was about the "specify coil parameters" thing. I can't really. The point is....you can make a great coil above 1.0 ohms with 30 ga wire. YMMV depending on device and preference.

Dr g's .9 coil is very close to that but still, there's a lot of stuff that works just fine on even regulated APVs.

I'll say this once again, if you give a good description of the coil and wicking setup you have in mind, vs only the wire gauge you use, I'd be more than willing to try it. I've tried a bunch of coils on the "standard" side of things and I've only been mildly satisfied. I've been able to lower my nicotine levels and have an overall more pleasant vape with subohm stuff.

 

[ZeroDisorder]

@Dr. G:

Unless you go to a short piece of very small gauge wire with high voltage, I don't think so. I've only done HV vaping a few times and found it to be not worth the hassle.

 

[dr g]

@Dr. G:

Unless you go to a short piece of very small gauge wire with high voltage, I don't think so. I've only done HV vaping a few times and found it to be not worth the hassle.

hv vaping is the opposite of subohm, i think you are confused ...

 

[ZeroDisorder]

hv vaping is the opposite of subohm, i think you are confused ...

Not when looking at it quantitatively. Assuming that you're getting the same power throughput, it really comes down to the coil specific differences is what I'm saying.

I might model some coils on my thermal FEA just to see.

 

[AttyPops]

The claim from the sub-ohmers is about the thermodynamics of larger gauge wire. May be correct, but not worth the risk qualitatively.

So how would your test rig measure the results for vaporizing e-juice? Besides, a lot of it is subjective. And a way to sell mechs, or a fad, or whatever.

 

[dr g]

Not when looking at it quantitatively. Assuming that you're getting the same power throughput, it really comes down to the coil specific differences is what I'm saying.

I might model some coils on my thermal FEA just to see.

Yes that is well-known, however you have it backwards in thinking a subohm coil is smaller than a high resistance coil. It is substantially larger, that is how they work.

 

[ZeroDisorder]

The claim from the sub-ohmers is about the thermodynamics of larger gauge wire. May be correct, but not worth the risk qualitatively.

So how would your test rig measure the results for vaporizing e-juice? Besides, a lot of it is subjective. And a way to sell mechs, or a fad, or whatever.

Well, I should be able to prove/disprove the claims to a generalized realm. I partially agree with the possible risks being too much. Which is why I have fuses to calm my worries.

I think I'd able to get pretty close to how much energy(power*time is applied) it would take to vaporize a certain amount of juice, and would lead me to a rather close simulation. Of course I'd have to take into consideration of the mass of the coil, ambient temperature of the juice, and a few other things.

 

[fourtytwo]

31 pages and still going!
For both sides of this argument who keep snipping at each other, maybe someone should come out with a Valium flavoured juice.

I like keeping it around 1.4 to 1.8 on all my devices. Nice, reasonable on head life and economical on juice.
For those who say that they sub-ohm for throat hit, flavour and clouds of vapour, all I can say is meh...
I DIY my own juices so I can adjust my flavour strength to suit. Warm or hot vapour is not my thing and I actually try to mix juice to have less viable vapour. I don't need to see a cloud to know I am vaping.

 

[tj99959]

hv vaping is the opposite of subohm, i think you are confused ...

HV vaping ends up at the same place as sub ohm vaping by going around the same circle in the opposite direction.

30 watts could care less which formula you use to get there.

 

[AttyPops]

Admittedly cross-posed from the other current-sub-ohm thread:

The other thing that bothers me about this trend is that it's a bit dualistic. Most people use e-cigs as a harm-reduction device. The super-sub-ohm huge cloud thing is courting danger from a physical harm standpoint (heat and huge density of VG/PG in lungs).

CASAA just released a good-news study with normal levels of vapor production. That was cool. But nobody...NOBODY...is studying these huge clouds of thick vapor yet. They look at normal exposure levels, not these.

So I'm not sure all sub-ohm is created equal either. But the trend to go lower with more coils is where it would tend to tip the scales if it does at all.

Food for thought for those chasing clouds.

 

[Lessifer]

You have WAY more material to heat with a subohm coil ...

It might be a bit more helpful if you describe what you're talking about. There are very large differences between doing a 2/1 wrap of 32g at a 3mm ID, and doing a 9/8 wrap of 26g at a 1.6mm ID, but both would be sub-ohm. I know most people who do sub-ohm don't use 32g, but that could be where some of the confusion lies.

 

[dr g]

HV vaping ends up at the same place as sub ohm vaping by going around the same circle in the opposite direction.

30 watts could care less which formula you use to get there.

"Watts do not matter. It's all about wire temp." In any case, opposite here means the variables are changing inversely to each other.

It might be a bit more helpful if you describe what you're talking about. There are very large differences between doing a 2/1 wrap of 32g at a 3mm ID, and doing a 9/8 wrap of 26g at a 1.6mm ID, but both would be sub-ohm. I know most people who do sub-ohm don't use 32g, but that could be where some of the confusion lies.

Covered in post #4 of the thread.

 

[Jimi D.]

And the amps

 

[Lessifer]

No one does 2 wraps of 32 gauge for subohm. For the exact reasons you stated -- it doesn't work. With subohm you are going for coil and wick mass increase. If you DID do 2 wraps of 32 for subohm you would not even come close to venting your battery because you would not vape it for more than a few seconds before realizing it doesn't work.

Subohm isn't necessarily dangerous, but being uneducated about it might be. Insomuch as many anti-subohm folks come from the standpoint of lack of education, it's not really a great thing either.

You have to understand what subohm is if you are going to comment on it, otherwise you aren't doing much good.

You say covered in this post... Here's the problem I have with most of your posts, they're all negative, saying what doesn't work, or what things aren't. Like I've been trying to teach my toddler, it's much easier if you tell me what you DO want, instead of rattling off things that you DON'T want.

You stated that 2 wraps of 32g don't work well, I read that, I referenced it in my post. You didn't state what DOES work for sub ohm.

 

[dr g]

You say covered in this post... Here's the problem I have with most of your posts, they're all negative, saying what doesn't work, or what things aren't. Like I've been trying to teach my toddler, it's much easier if you tell me what you DO want, instead of rattling off things that you DON'T want.

You stated that 2 wraps of 32g don't work well, I read that, I referenced it in my post. You didn't state what DOES work for sub ohm.

Sentence #3 states what works.

 

[tj99959]

"Watts do not matter. It's all about wire temp." In any case, opposite here means the variables are changing inversely to each other.

Give us a means of measurement for that!

 

[Jimi D.]

I've vaped both extremes. I used to vape 8.4 volts with duals and triple cartomizers. The vapor was thin and warm, and sometimes hot.

Sub ohm vaping is cool and thick. It's all in the amps.

 

[fourtytwo]

Give us a means of measurement for that!

This would work.
Laser TEMP-GUN

 

[dr g]

Give us a means of measurement for that!

Vapor production is a pretty good indicator.

BTW that statement doesn't mean "measure the temperature of the wire" ...

 

[SFBrianT]

This is how you get a hurt. Do not try this at home. This is the epitome of cloud chasing foolishness.