Cloud chasing and sub ohm foolishness

[AttyPops]

I think it's more watts per square mm = heating potential. So I'll bet how you wind the coils matters too. Gauge too. Wicking well too.

All that magic thermodynamics stuff.

Still, IDK if it's any good for ya, or even harm reduction after a certain point. That stuff gets hot, not cool, in most user videos from cloud chasers that I've viewed.

So again, it depends.

 

[dr g]

This is how you get a hurt. Do not try this at home. This is the epitome of cloud chasing foolishness.

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Other than being a lot more work than you need to do, there's nothing wrong with that.

 

[Lessifer]

This is how you get a hurt. Do not try this at home. This is the epitome of cloud chasing foolishness.

View attachment 239827

I think that's the "medusa" atomizer, it's actually designed to activate different coils depending on the resistance you want. I don't think it would actually activate all of them simultaneously.

 

[zoiDman]

"Watts do not matter. It's all about wire temp." ...

Give us a means of measurement for that!

Vapor production is a pretty good indicator.

BTW that statement doesn't mean "measure the temperature of the wire" ...

I Can't tell if you are Talking in Riddles? Or you just Don't Know what you are Talking About?

 

[cozzicon]

I think it's more watts per square mm = heating potential. So I'll bet how you wind the coils matters too. Gauge too. Wicking well too.

All that magic thermodynamics stuff.

Still, IDK if it's any good for ya, or even harm reduction after a certain point. That stuff gets hot, not cool, in most user videos from cloud chasers that I've viewed.

So again, it depends.

For our purposes:

Energy(Joules) = Power(Watts) × Time(Seconds)

Or

Joules = Watts * Time

Which would be a better way of dealing with the issue if we are willing to remove the niggling (but fairly insignificant) issues that are complicated by physics.

Knowing that... also makes me snicker at myself sometimes. So I just shutup and vape what works for me.

 

[dr g]

I Can't tell if you are Talking in Riddles? Or you just Don't Know what you are Talking About?

Here you go, some light reading:
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...-not-matter-its-all-about-wire-temp-read.html

 

[Thrasher]

/Thrasher giggles at thread.

 

[zoiDman]

Here you go, some light reading:
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...-not-matter-its-all-about-wire-temp-read.html

Perhaps you might Like to Condense this Thread into something more Digestible.

 

[Lessifer]

Perhaps you might Like to Condense this Thread into something more Digestible.

Aw... but zoid... that might actually be productive.

 

[dr g]

Perhaps you might Like to Condense this Thread into something more Digestible.

That's pretty much everything I've posted. But really you should read it, everyone who discusses subohm should. It pretty much explains what everything is all about.

Like most everything else, our devices are dynamic systems of interrelated physical phenomena. If along the way you simply don't understand something or have the wrong idea about it, your entire understanding of the system can be invalid.

 

[zoiDman]

Aw... but zoid... that might actually be productive.

True.

BTW - I'm still trying to Figure Out if it is "All About Wire Temp", why we just Don't Measure the Temp of the Wire?

This isn't one of those Schrödinger's Cat things is it?

 

[dr g]

True.

BTW - I'm still trying to Figure Out if it is "All About Wire Temp", why we just Don't Measure the Temp of the Wire?

This isn't one of those Schrödinger's Cat things is it?

Because 1) that's not exactly an easy thing to do with commonly available tools and 2) temperature is dynamic regardless. Any one reading isn't inherently meaningful. The important thing is to understand the relationship of wire temperature to the other variables in the system.

 

[zoiDman]

...

Like most everything else, our devices are dynamic systems of interrelated physical phenomena. ...

I hate to Break it to you, But All but the Most Fundamental Laws of Mathematics are "dynamic systems of interrelated physical phenomena".

I asked if you could give Us the Readers Digest Version of what you are trying to say, I don't think that is an Unreasonable Request.

 

[Lessifer]

True.

BTW - I'm still trying to Figure Out if it is "All About Wire Temp", why we just Don't Measure the Temp of the Wire?

This isn't one of those Schrödinger's Cat things is it?

From what I understand, it's not about the actual wire temperature, it's about the thermal zone created by the wire. Of course from me this is all speculation, but it's why I think micro coils work well, you create a pocket of heat along the entire coil that heats the juice evenly as a opposed to a thin wire somewhat spaced out where you get heat/no heat/heat/no heat etc.

standard sub ohm I think works in a similar way, thicker gauge wire, and more of it, to create a more even thermal zone.

 

[zoiDman]

Because 1) that's not exactly an easy thing to do with commonly available tools and 2) temperature is dynamic regardless. Any one reading isn't inherently meaningful. The important thing is to understand the relationship of wire temperature to the other variables in the system.

Two Simple Questions.

Do you think you know what is Going On with Sub-Ohm Vaping?

Would you like to Explain it?

 

[dr g]

From what I understand, it's not about the actual wire temperature, it's about the thermal zone created by the wire. Of course from me this is all speculation, but it's why I think micro coils work well, you create a pocket of heat along the entire coil that heats the juice evenly as a opposed to a thin wire somewhat spaced out where you get heat/no heat/heat/no heat etc.

standard sub ohm I think works in a similar way, thicker gauge wire, and more of it, to create a more even thermal zone.

It's likely not even this complicated (at least as far as a working concept). It's just a question of the size of the heat zone, bigger coil and wick package = more vapor produced at the same temperature.

The effect of the coil size on its heating efficiency is a related dynamic.

 

[zoiDman]

From what I understand, it's not about the actual wire temperature, it's about the thermal zone created by the wire. Of course from me this is all speculation, but it's why I think micro coils work well, you create a pocket of heat along the entire coil that heats the juice evenly as a opposed to a thin wire somewhat spaced out where you get heat/no heat/heat/no heat etc.

standard sub ohm I think works in a similar way, thicker gauge wire, and more of it, to create a more even thermal zone.

I'm with you Lessifer.

These concepts have been Discussed since I joined this Forum.

What I would like to get out of the Good Dr. is a Few More Quantified "Variables". And a few Less Descriptive Adjectives.

 

[zoiDman]

It's likely not even this complicated (at least as far as a working concept). It's just a question of the size of the heat zone, bigger coil and wick package = more vapor produced at the same temperature.

Vague Generalities a Great for Concepts.

How about some Specific Values for a Given Setup.

 

[dr g]

Vague Generalities a Great for Concepts.

How about some Specific Values for a Given Setup.

You can find one at the link provided. It's not inherently meaningful other than to explain the concept. A specific setup's values alone are of marginal value.

 

[Lessifer]

It's likely not even this complicated (at least as far as a working concept). It's just a question of the size of the heat zone, bigger coil and wick package = more vapor produced at the same temperature.

The effect of the coil size on its heating efficiency is a related dynamic.

The idea of the micro coil though is to take the same amount of wire(or less) and condense it to a smaller area but with the same or more wick/wire contact to create higher and more consistent temperature with the same voltage. I may need to do some experiments, though they will admittedly be subjective, using the same length of wire, same gauge, and build two coils one micro and one spaced like you would find in a standard clearo. Or someone else can do it.