Coil resistance for regulated PVs?

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Halcyon2501

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I was going through my old vape stuff the other day, sorting it to see what I could sell, when I came across my old iTaste SVD. I've pretty much moved to mechanicals at this point, but I decided to throw a coil in a kayfun and run it on the SVD one more time for nostalgia value. That SVD was my mainstay for a long time.

When I went to plan the build, and applied what I've learned about coil building since I gave up the SVD for mechs, it occurred to me that I might have been building the coils wrong on the SVD all that time. I was building coils in Aerotanks and Kayfuns at around the 1.5-1.3 range, thinking that lower resistance would create more heat, as it would with a mech. However, I think I might actually have been limiting my SVD's output. I could be wrong here, so check my logic:

With a mech, lower resistance = more watts for the given voltage = more heat. This is because battery voltage is a constant, sort of - it decreases as the battery dies, but every time you hit the mech's fire button, the battery's giving you whatever it was designed to put out. Your atomizer resistance is the controllable variable. APVs, however, have a range of voltage and wattage outputs. For example:

iTaste SVD
Voltage range: 3V-6V
Wattage range: 3W-15W

Now, let's say you put a 1.5 ohm atty on the SVD in variable wattage mode. You'll be able to get the full 15 watts of power to the coil, because in order to get 15W on a 1.5 ohm coil, you only need 4.74ish volts, which is well below the SVD's 6 volt limit. However, if you switch over to variable voltage mode and crank it up all the way to 6, then it's still only going to push 4.74ish volts to the coil - because if it did push more, it would be pushing more than 15 watts to the coil, and 15 watts is over the circuitry's limit. Too low resistance = a loss of potential voltage range.

The same thing happens in reverse if you use a resistance that's too high. For example, put a 3 ohm atty on there, and you'll never reach 15 watts - at the SVD's max 6 volts, you'll only be able to push the coil at 12 watts. Doesn't matter the mode you're in - voltage mode only goes up to 6 volts, and in wattage mode you can set it to 15, but the device will only be pushing 12.

In order to get the full range of voltage and wattage on the SVD, I have to build my coils to 2.4 ohms, because it takes 6 volts to push a 2.4 ohm coil to 15 watts - the most the SVD can handle in either volts or watts.

As I said before, with mechs the controllable variable is atty resistance and battery voltage is the constant. With APVs, the battery voltage is the variable - so the atty resistance should be a constant, unless there is some other reason to run a different resistance coil. I would assume a 1.5 ohm coil and a 2.4 ohm coil of the same gauge wire, run at the same wattage will result in the same heat?

I guess the point of all this is, why isn't it common knowledge to build coil resistance on an APV to match it's full output range?

Or is it, and I just missed it? :p
 

Miata GT

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Because most people seem to thing lower resistance is always better, hense the volume of questions about running sub-ohm on a DNA30. On most 'moderate' power APVs like the SVD or the ProVari I've normally shot for about a 2.0ohms resistance. As you said too high or too low does not allow you to optimize the output of the device.
 

HecticEnergy

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Forgive me for only skimming the last half of the write up up, but I think you are missing a vital part of the equation.. Amps. the SVD has a 5 amp limit, so I'd think you'd be good at 1.5 ohms. even at 1.3 @ 15w puts you at 3.4 amps and 4.4v.. so maybe thats not it.

a 1.5 hom coil and a 2.4 ohm coil at the same wattage/voltage would produce different amounts of heat. 1.5 would heat up A LOT faster.

I'm just now getting into mechs... but on my apv's i run 1.4 ohms at about 15w as it seems to heat up quick, produce good flavor/vapor and not kill the battery.

hopefully someone more knowledgeable than me chimes in here.
 

Halcyon2501

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a 1.5 hom coil and a 2.4 ohm coil at the same wattage/voltage would produce different amounts of heat. 1.5 would heat up A LOT faster.
Ah, now that would be a good reason to build lower. I've experimented with 26 gauge wire in my dripper, and it seems to take forever to heat compared with a 28 gauge build at the same resistance - very annoying.
 

Ryedan

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I guess the point of all this is, why isn't it common knowledge to build coil resistance on an APV to match it's full output range?

Or is it, and I just missed it? :p

You didn't miss it, it's not common knowledge. I've given that explanation a number of times. Sometimes people get it and sometimes they don't. All you can do is try.

Then again, try explaining to someone that when they set their VV mod to 5 volts with a 2 ohm atty on it, the battery in the mod is not putting out 2.5 amps but rather 3.3A on average and that it changes depending on the battery voltage :)
 
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Ryedan

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Then again, try explaining to someone that when they set their VV mod to 5 volts with a 2 ohm atty on it, the battery in the mod is not putting out 2.5 amps but rather 3.3A on average and that it changes depending on the battery voltage :)

I also just realized that lower atty resistance = more amps = the battery drains quicker:

Voltage = 6
Resistance = 2.4
Wattage = 15
Amperage = 2.5

Voltage = 4.74
Resistance = 1.5
Wattage = 15
Amperage = 3.16

Well, that didn't take long :)

In your first example above, what is the actual battery voltage in the mod?

Considering the battery voltage, how can the mod output 6V?
 

Halcyon2501

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Then again, try explaining to someone that when they set their VV mod to 5 volts with a 2 ohm atty on it, the battery in the mod is not putting out 2.5 amps but rather 3.3A on average and that it changes depending on the battery voltage :)
Heh, you might try with me if you get bored. Is it because of the pulse width modulation of the PV, as opposed to the direct current of a mech?

EDIT:

LOL. Yeah, it's a 3.7v 18350, and I know the circuitry does some magic to get it up to 6v - I assume by pulsing the battery higher than it's rated for constant output (PWM). I'm familiar with the concept, but I don't know the specifics.
 
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Ryedan

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Heh, you might try with me if you get bored. Is it because of the pulse width modulation of the PV, as opposed to the direct current of a mech?

EDIT: LOL

Yeah, it's a 3.7v 18350, and I know the circuitry does some magic to get it up to 6v - I assume by pulsing the battery higher than it's rated for constant output (PWM).

You're on the right track Halcyon. I'm not a electrical engineer so I can't explain how the magic works. The end result though is the mod uses more amps to create the higher output voltage.

So;

"Voltage = 6
Resistance = 2.4
Wattage = 15"

is correct for the mod output.

For the battery driving that mod, not taking into account any regulation inefficiency loss;

Wattage = 15
Battery voltage = 4.2
Battery amp draw = 3.57

Wattage = 15
Battery voltage = 3.3
Battery amp draw = 4.55

My 3.33 amp number was wrong in my first post, because I was for some reason using 12.5 watts for the calculation (been a long day).

The amp draw on the battery will actually be 5% - 20% higher than this because of inefficiencies in the electronics. The efficiency will probably change with the voltage set.

For a more thorough explanation check out Rader's blog here.

Hope that helps :)
 

six

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What seems like forever ago before VV/VW was even a thing... there was much discussion of the difference between HV vaping (stacked batts) and SV vaping (single batt). The HV guys used mostly 3.0 and 3.2 ohm attys, and for a long time, LR attys didn't even exist. Single batt vapers had pretty much a choice between 2.4 and 2.5 ohms. LR gave the single batt vapers a whole new world to explore with 2.0 and 1.5 ohms....

And now, it's happening again, but without unregulated stacked batts... Regulated PV folks can all enjoy being able to use a pretty wide range of resistance (some devices are more limited than others)... and SV vapers reach for lower and lower ohms and batteries that can dump some amps.

My regulated PV seems to really like a ~2.0 ohm coil to give me some range. It's also pretty comfortable with a 2.5 ohm coil... and even a 1.5, but something close to 2.0 seems to be what gives it the most room to produce while also providing decent battery life. I personally feel like low resistance limits the capabilities of most (again, some are more limiting than others) regulated PVs.
 
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