Coil wrapping - In theory

[eHuman]

Is there a minimum gap distance that "should/must" be maintained on a coil?
Or, as long as they are evenly spaced and your resistance comes out what you want the gap distance doesn't matter?

 

[Rule62]

Theoretically, no; as long as they aren't touching. However, if you are using a juice that is prone to leaving a build up of residue, such as many sweet types , the accumulation of residue can eventually create a hot spot, if they are super close.

 

[EDO]

Many Regard Petar K to be a modding genius (he is the inventor of the Drill bit mehtod)...check out his ridiculous set up.....look how compact his coils are and how long his leads are. His set up works because there is no tension in the coils whatsoever.

http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/7304/slika0437.jpg

His coils are so perfect that he uses unoxidized wicks.

 

[ukeman]

if you look at a blown up photo of the disposable Hybrid atomizers (hh357, AMG hybrid, Aero) LR 1.5 i.e. they have at least 10 wraps (how many wraps?) and they seem for sure to be touching.
They have a silica wick, but don't think that makes any difference.
I've wondered about all this...

 

[Kevin King]

ya same here ukeman. a 1.5 ohm hh357 has thick wraps that are all touching eachother. that has to be the reason the flavor is so good

 

[EDO]

I have checked out a ton of ego c coils...they are super compact....around 9 wraps but they aren't touching.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7147/6414104649_0d7d011d8f.jpg

 

[ukeman]

agree KK....

ya same here ukeman. a 1.5 ohm hh357 has thick wraps that are all touching eachother. that has to be the reason the flavor is so good

 

[EDO]

When you guys say touching each other do you literally mean touching each other.... or are they really really close but not touching.

 

[shardina]

if you look at a blown up photo of the disposable Hybrid atomizers (hh357, AMG hybrid, Aero) LR 1.5 i.e. they have at least 10 wraps (how many wraps?) and they seem for sure to be touching.
They have a silica wick, but don't think that makes any difference.
I've wondered about all this...

The atomizer in a CE3 often looks like this too - just a super tightly-wound coil that's definitely touching. Seems to vape fine, though.

 

[MISTer E]

EDO
When you guys say touching each other do you literally mean touching each other.... or are they really really close but not touching.

The innate nature of a wire coil assists short prevention.[do not think that to = it can not happen, as it does]

A coil is made of wire. The nature of bending wire follows to where you set it [with only spring back effect] & not beyond effect. & if a coil is wound very closely spaced a springback is implemented into it preventing wanting to go forward & touch.

If one winds a coil as tightly spaced as one can on a drill bit [or whatever & remove the bit] & then examine it magnified the spring back effect space is seen.

The following old images I dug out of my hard drive show a Spin E coil that was wound as tightly spaced for the most parts as I could on a *non oxidized coil[very important (see the end)].

This one [although not 100% dead on center] shows how it appears to be very very close together.

When a closer inspection indicates they are not as close as it appears.

*heat warps wire & messes with the springback so must be added in to calculations, as the direction of the heat warpage is random [as far as I know] [but spring back is predictable]

It almost does not appear to be them same coil @ same position yet it is pretty much

petar K & many others can get very close thus

Just some vapor related o_0 strangeness

 

[JUDGMENT AFFIRMED]

I just think its better to give then recieve. But I do like reading what MISTer E said or did.

 

[EDO]

That is what I thought.... they appear to be touching but they do not. Does wrapping your coils super close to each other improve the vape?

BTW that is an incredible coil you set up there.

 

[Rule62]

Metal expands when heated. So, I assume there's a point where the coils wouldn't be touching when first wrapped; but would touch when heated initially. But, once metal has been heated, it contracts to a point slightly smaller than it's original size.

 

[ukeman]

I've heard it theorized that the even layer of juice on closely wrapped coils; a la HH357, adds an element of enhanced flavor...

That is what I thought.... they appear to be touching but they do not. Does wrapping your coils super close to each other improve the vape?

BTW that is an incredible coil you set up there.

 

[eHuman]

Those of you talking about their coils touching are mistaken, get out a magnifying glass. Touching coils effectively removes them from the current path as current will take the least path of resistance. If all your coils were touching you would have a 0Ω atty coil and something would fry or proection would kick in.

Thanks for all of the input. I was pretty sure it didn't matter how close as long as they did not touch statically or dynamically for a minimum distance. And as a maximum distance, spacing the coils no further apart than 2 adjacent coils could heat the space between them.
When I get my order in, I'm going to play with min/max coils needed to evenly heat as large a piece of wick as possible, keeping the coils leads as short as possible.

I have a method that may/might produce better, evenly spaced and uniform coils from the stating gate, but will wait to share what the technique is until I have a chance to play with it myself.

 

[Kemosabe]

if you look at a blown up photo of the disposable Hybrid atomizers (hh357, AMG hybrid, Aero) LR 1.5 i.e. they have at least 10 wraps (how many wraps?) and they seem for sure to be touching.
They have a silica wick, but don't think that makes any difference.
I've wondered about all this...

same with vivi nova heads. makes ya go

 

[MISTer E]

Those of you talking about their coils touching are mistaken, get out a magnifying glass.

I have [& likely more than most. I am not bragging or acting like I know it all. [I am just strange like that & get my freak on hard with coils & always wear a head magnifier

lol]

Touching coils effectively removes them from the current path as current will take the least path of resistance.

Did anyone in the thread say it would not?

If all your coils were touching you would have a 0Ω atty coil and something would fry or proection would kick in.

Not in all scenarios & in reality none would be 0Ω unless a 0Ω resistance atty had its poles touching, as coil wire has some resistance & even if fully shorted .1Ω or something would register.

The coil I showed in my previous post, even when pressed together has resistance! because of the many many many many many wraps! & its small long width size. video--->[Also due to its small size it has strength unseen in big floppy coils](In the video I try to make the coil flop onto itself squeezing in all directions. it is an older vid.). I did not imply a wide circumference coil that is floppy can do so as it can not. Gauge & resistance of wire also calculates in. I do not think anyone implied such as you seemingly "accuse" when you call some?(whom?) out as "mistaken".

I was not answering you original Q(it was one from EDO) & quoted what I was answering. You may simply be mistaken or whateva.

My On your original question.

Is there a minimum gap distance that "should/must" be maintained on a coil?

There is no book & it is not set in stone. You want them not to touch & short.

&

Or, as long as they are evenly spaced and your resistance comes out what you want the gap distance doesn't matter?

for that answer I am going to add EDOs Q

Does wrapping your coils super close to each other improve the vape?

into the mix.
You are right on & have a nice system with the way you want your wire to add up to what it should be. If it does not then something is awry. I often measure first to know what I want to see too.

Here is where EDOs Q comes in the play. IT DOES MATTER

Close coils heat up quicker & evenly spaced coils heat up more evenly. The spacing of the coils together = heat concentration.
spaced close = hot
spaced far = warm(cooler)

I hope I did not confuse you before or now I know my writing style is a mess like a mad scientist(I am actually proudly slightly ......ed )

---

Hey Rule62
Sounds good to m

! I learn as I go & am hard headed & did not even think expansion duh. I wonder if clever in math cats like Gdeal can mathematically predict such expansion movement that is if they had the right specs. I am unlearned school wise & self taught (hard like a knot) [The math parts of m

brain do not go there lol 8P]. I knew that heated metal moves in some sort of fashion, as straight "Spin E" coils do deform as the grow old & it can be seen beginning to happen from their first dry fire (but it is then only very very very slight each time fired. I also know if you wrap a "Spin E" with a wire that has been heated once first, it seems to deform much less or maybe slower over time than one with the coil wire oxidized in a dry burn after being wrapped. I am not sure if that adds anything to your cool insight. It is neat how metal glass & stuff hardens & softens & moves/expands with heat. I have not had a spin E short out on itself ever in any dangerous/big Ω jump manner [on mE. Not to say it is not possible] ever. I have even tried to make Spin E coils touch & they bounce back from their neighbors enough that any slight touches or heat warpidge shortout is slight if any. The strange strength properties of tiny pin sized coils & is very neat & much more short safer(not completely nor really needed lol) than standard big coils.

Sci

ntiphic thinking upon vape is fun.

 

[gdeal]

Hey Rule62
Sounds good to m

! I learn as I go & am hard headed & did not even think expansion duh. I wonder if clever in math cats like Gdeal can mathematically predict such expansion movement that is if they had the right specs.

Rule62 is correct.

The coil will expand with heat. The expansion is very small and is more relevant to longer lengths of wire and wire sag for wire that needs to be tight between two points.

For example with a 2.5 inch length of kanthal wire, raising the temp say 400 or 600 degrees F will result in expansion of ~.010 of one inch for a 400 degree rise and ~.015 of in inch for a 600 degree rise. So that's about .3 or .4mm for a 2.5 inch straight wire. (If my math is correct..) However, when you coil wire, the expansion between coils is substantially less because part of that will be an increase in coil diameter.

Because Spin E coils are flexible the effect may be different and be a positive factor. This in combination will surface oxidation and the heating/cooling cycle may explain some of what you see. But I really dont know and have not seen any scientific data which explores this. Brighter minds would have better insight....

Someone mentioned HH357s: IMHO Tightly spaced coils like the HH357 produce a better vape than loosely wound coils.

 

[eHuman]

No offence intended nor taken. My goal is to use as many wraps as possible in the space available between the posts, and still hit my target Ω. The main variables in order to achieve that is wire length/gauge and coil spacing. Since a tightly wound coil needs a longer wire to make it, resulting in coil Ω increased; varying wire guage and to some extent coil spacing is the method I will use to achieve target coil Ω.

Coil spacing will need to vary dending on the guage of wire, while maintaining a uniform completed wrapped coil length and overall target Ω.

The guage would end up being larger (smaller gauge number/larger wire) with this set up and make a near indestrucable coil.
I think a nominal coil loop distance being maintained with help to avoid the problems assocaited with some juice/crud build up