Completely lost in this pile of information

[adrkaushal]

I'm thinking of going with DIY eLiquids and started reading right from the first thread, checked all the DOs and DONTs, precautions, warnings, etc. Downloaded the DIY calculator. Visited/checked various DIY suppliers. And I'm freagin lost! There's waaaaay too much to read/know but seriously, all I wish to do is buy PG, buy VG, buy some Nic and finally buy some flavors.

I love 18mg Nic eLiquids. I have the empty bottles, syringes, blunt needles, etc. Do I really need masks and all that? I really don't think so. Not for 18 mg Nic, do I? Maybe I do but I'm not too much bothered about all that because I will be careful.

I don't understand something, at RTSVape, 1000 ml PG or VG is available for only $18. Considering I buy both, will pay $36. For 1000 ml Nic, about $50. That's a hell lot of eliquid stuff. Within $100, I can buy an year's eliquid. But if I buy 100 ml eLiquid from a good vendor, it is $50+

Why so much difference? Why merchants make it so costly? I guess flavors add up to the cost. All the testing/research for good flavors adds up to the cost of the eLiquids.

Oh well, not too bothered about all that. I just wish to know ...

If I buy 1000 ml PG and 1000 ml VG .. How much Nic should I order?

Another question, at RTS vape, Nic is available in different mg with VG or PG base. What does that mean? If I buy 1000ml 18 mg Nic in VG base, does that mean, I can simply add flavor and begin vaping it?

Don't really understand if Nic is available in VG/PG base, why even buy extra VG/PG?

I'm sorry, I'm just too overwhelmed with all the info I have read since last few hours. It is just way too much for a DIY newbie like me .. sigh.

 

[Wingsfan0310]

Let me try to help. When you buy your Nic in PG or VG you count that towards your PG and or VG amounts in your juice calculator. I don't know at what ratio you like to vape (Pg to VG). I go anywhere from 65% Pg 35% VG to 40% PG 60% VG, depends on the recipe and my mood when I'm making it.

If you like 100% VG juice, than buy your Nic in VG but when you add flavors that will bring the Nic down a little depending on how much flavor you add.

You don't say what PG to VG ratio you prefer and you don't mention the amount of Nic you prefer (ex: 6,12,18,24mg/ml) in your e-juice. If you give us that info, we can better help you.

Cheers,
Steve

 

[pamdis]

Take a deep breath

First thing you need to decide is what your target PG/VG percentage will be.

You already know that you want to end up with 18mg.

So if you buy 18mg and add flavor, you will have a lower nic concentration.

If the PG/VG mix is not important and the exact nic concentration is not important, then you can go the easy route:

If you use 20% flavor and the flavor is PG based, and you buy a 50/50 pg/vg 18mg nic base, then your final mix will be:
80% of nic base
20% of flavor

This will lower your nic level to 14.4 (80% of 18) and will up your PG/VG to 60/40.

If you want to be more exact than that, then you need to buy base, PG and VG and use a good calculator to figure out the precise amount of each to reach your target.

 

[pamdis]

As for how much nic to order, it depends on what strength you decide to buy.

Download and play around with the ejuicemeup calculator. That will help a lot to figure out what to buy.

If you buy 36mg base, then each 100ml of liquid you make will require 50ml of base.
If you buy 100mg base, then each 100ml of liquid you make will require 18ml of base.

ETA: I vape 18mg and bought 100mg base. It came with gloves and glasses, but I don't use them. I already wear prescription glasses and feel that is protection enough for my eyes if I splashed it, and mix by the sink for hand washing if I spill. To each his own.

 

[Crunktanium]

If you use 24mg of premixed nic at the ratio of VG/PG you desire you should get approx 18mg after 20% flavoring.

 

[adrkaushal]

Let me try to help. When you buy your Nic in PG or VG you count that towards your PG and or VG amounts in your juice calculator. I don't know at what ratio you like to vape (Pg to VG). I go anywhere from 65% Pg 35% VG to 40% PG 60% VG, depends on the recipe and my mood when I'm making it.

If you like 100% VG juice, than buy your Nic in VG but when you add flavors that will bring the Nic down a little depending on how much flavor you add.

You don't say what PG to VG ratio you prefer and you don't mention the amount of Nic you prefer (ex: 6,12,18,24mg/ml) in your e-juice. If you give us that info, we can better help you.

Cheers,
Steve

Thank you for the info Steve!

I'll go in details of my vaping stuff. I started with 100% PG and found that I'm sensitive to PG, gives me a mild heaviness in the chest. So I instantly turned to 100% VG liquids. Was pretty happy with it cuz didn't feel any problems. But then I started ordering VG/PG mix eLiquids. Right now I'm vaping 70VG/30PG but I wish to go higher on the PG and see what's the best mix I can come up with. So when I get my DIY stash, the first thing I wish to try is 60VG/40PG and then 50Vg/50PG. The whole idea on my mind is to get good TH with good amount of vapor. Of course, while doing all that, saving on $$ spent.

From what I understand, I should go with 1000 ml 24 mg Nic with VG base and 1000 ml 24 mg Nic with PG base. Mix them up 60VG/40PG and then just add flavor. I guess I should also buy 1000 ml of VG and 1000 ml of PG too. Just in case if I end up more than 18 mg Nic even after adding flavor which I think I will. I may not need that much PG/VG on its own though. Maybe I can buy about 250 ml of both because it will be just to lower the nic. Please correct me if I'm wrong ..

Take a deep breath

First thing you need to decide is what your target PG/VG percentage will be.

You already know that you want to end up with 18mg.

So if you buy 18mg and add flavor, you will have a lower nic concentration.

If the PG/VG mix is not important and the exact nic concentration is not important, then you can go the easy route:

If you use 20% flavor and the flavor is PG based, and you buy a 50/50 pg/vg 18mg nic base, then your final mix will be:
80% of nic base
20% of flavor

This will lower your nic level to 14.4 (80% of 18) and will up your PG/VG to 60/40.

If you want to be more exact than that, then you need to buy base, PG and VG and use a good calculator to figure out the precise amount of each to reach your target.

Thank you for the info pamdis!

Thanks for explaining the % mixtures. I really am understanding it all a lot better. Appreciate the help a lot!

 

[Wingsfan0310]

Sounds like you understand it. One thing I'd like to add is most flavor is PG based so if you add 10% flavor and 40% of your PG Nic with 50% of your VG Nic that would result in a 50/50 mix. Don't forget to take account for your flavor.

Cheers,
Steve

Edit Just so you know that would produce juice with 21.6 mg/ml Nic so I think in your example, 250ml of PG and VG would be fine

 

[j3illy]

18mg is the strength I vape, and I just got into DIY myself. I bought from a B&M for a couple months and had 13 empty bottles which I'm now filling back up lol. I got my nic base at 60mg which I think is a good number. It leaves me leeway to tweak my PG/VG ratio a good amount. I was initially going high PG 80/20 cuz I like a nice throat hit, but it was nice to just make a batch that's mostly VG at 60/40, which is nice and smooth. Even if you're not concerned about the PG/VG ratio, you gotta account for the 10-20% flavoring you're adding, and if you got only 18mg nic base, it'd be down to 14-16mg after flavoring. I was considering getting the highest strength 100mg nic base just for the best deal, but you don't save THAT much, so I got the 60mg which is safer for handling. I don't wear gloves/mask which probably would be frowned upon, but I don't consider what I'm doing dangerous.

 

[adrkaushal]

As for how much nic to order, it depends on what strength you decide to buy.

Download and play around with the ejuicemeup calculator. That will help a lot to figure out what to buy.

If you buy 36mg base, then each 100ml of liquid you make will require 50ml of base.
If you buy 100mg base, then each 100ml of liquid you make will require 18ml of base.

ETA: I vape 18mg and bought 100mg base. It came with gloves and glasses, but I don't use them. I already wear prescription glasses and feel that is protection enough for my eyes if I splashed it, and mix by the sink for hand washing if I spill. To each his own.

If you use 24mg of premixed nic at the ratio of VG/PG you desire you should get approx 18mg after 20% flavoring.

Thank you for your input.

I'm not too sure if I'd love to go with 100 mg yet. It maybe too strong to handle. I think 24 mg would be sufficient because the whole purpose of DIY for me is to go lower on the Nic percentage.

I guess I should just order 24 mg 1000 ml of each PG and VG and then buy some flavors. Do you really need the sweetner or Ethyl Melatol solutions?

Isn't Nic with VG base sweet enough? And, Ethyl Melatol .. is it really necessary?

Appreciate all the help!

 

[adrkaushal]

18mg is the strength I vape, and I just got into DIY myself. I bought from a B&M for a couple months and had 13 empty bottles which I'm now filling back up lol. I got my nic base at 60mg which I think is a good number. It leaves me leeway to tweak my PG/VG ratio a good amount. I was initially going high PG 80/20 cuz I like a nice throat hit, but it was nice to just make a batch that's mostly VG at 60/40, which is nice and smooth. Even if you're not concerned about the PG/VG ratio, you gotta account for the 10-20% flavoring you're adding, and if you got only 18mg nic base, it'd be down to 14-16mg after flavoring. I was considering getting the highest strength 100mg nic base just for the best deal, but you don't save THAT much, so I got the 60mg which is safer for handling. I don't wear gloves/mask which probably would be frowned upon, but I don't consider what I'm doing dangerous.

Interesting .. I guess you must use the mixing calculator a lot. Say, I buy 1000 ml with VG and 1000 ml with PG base at 60 mg Nic each. I guess then I will also have to buy VG and PG separately. Then the flavors. How would I calculate the percentages hmmm.

*Note to self: STOP being so lazy, go play with the calculator you lazy bum*

oh damn! You got me! I've been trying to avoid learning the calculator *blush* .. But I will have to if I wish to understand DIY properly. Someone designed it for a reason

Thanks for the info j3illy

 

[j3illy]

You really don't need so much to start off. I didn't kno what to expect w/ DIY and didn't wanna spend too much. I ended up finding a coupon code and ordered from Vapor Shots. It was between them and Wizard Labs, but VS had cheaper shipping lol. I spent only $42 total and got enough materials to make 350-400mL, which will last me and my brother well over a few months. I bought 120mL nic base in PG, 120mL VG, and 250mL PG - along w/ 11 bottles of 10mL flavorings. I knew I liked high PG juices cuz that's what I was getting at the B&M. They're thinner and work great in wick-style clearomizers. They don't gunk up coils nearly as quickly as high VG. And they also carry the most flavor + throat-hit. But now that I've made some higher % VG, it's nice to be able to switch it up.

Instead of having to go w/ higher strength nic. to be able to tweak the PG/VG ratio, your idea of getting 2 bottles of 24mg nic. in PG and VG separately is perfectly fine. You'll have even more flexibility that way. But you definitely don't need 1000mL of each to start off, that's a ton. They say that nic. base will start to lose quality in VG sooner than PG (would take yrs tho), but that's another reason to not have TOO much. As for the calculators, I haven't used 1 yet. The math involved isn't hard, and once you get the hang of it, it's simple. I did my 1st batch at an even 10mL to make the math even easier. But it definitely wouldn't hurt to start messing around w/ a calculator. I just think about it w/ ratios. My nic. base is 60mg so if I take 2mL of it, and want it at 20mg, that's 3x, so I'd need 6mL total. That leaves a remainder of 4mL. Subtract 1mL for flavoring, that leaves 3 that I have to account for w/ PG + VG, depending on how I want it. Then figure I add a little extra flavoring, and that will bring down my nic. a bit from 20 which is fine. I've mostly been making small 6.5mL batches just like that, which fit fine in my old 5mL B&M bottles, which technically hold ~7mL.

 

[adrkaushal]

You really don't need so much to start off. I didn't kno what to expect w/ DIY and didn't wanna spend too much. I ended up finding a coupon code and ordered from Vapor Shots. It was between them and Wizard Labs, but VS had cheaper shipping lol. I spent only $42 total and got enough materials to make 350-400mL, which will last me and my brother well over a few months. I bought 120mL nic base in PG, 120mL VG, and 250mL PG - along w/ 11 bottles of 10mL flavorings. I knew I liked high PG juices cuz that's what I was getting at the B&M. They're thinner and work great in wick-style clearomizers. They don't gunk up coils nearly as quickly as high VG. And they also carry the most flavor + throat-hit. But now that I've made some higher % VG, it's nice to be able to switch it up.

Instead of having to go w/ higher strength nic. to be able to tweak the PG/VG ratio, your idea of getting 2 bottles of 24mg nic. in PG and VG separately is perfectly fine. You'll have even more flexibility that way. But you definitely don't need 1000mL of each to start off, that's a ton. They say that nic. base will start to lose quality in VG sooner than PG (would take yrs tho), but that's another reason to not have TOO much. As for the calculators, I haven't used 1 yet. The math involved isn't hard, and once you get the hang of it, it's simple. I did my 1st batch at an even 10mL to make the math even easier. But it definitely wouldn't hurt to start messing around w/ a calculator. I just think about it w/ ratios. My nic. base is 60mg so if I take 2mL of it, and want it at 20mg, that's 3x, so I'd need 6mL total. That leaves a remainder of 4mL. Subtract 1mL for flavoring, that leaves 3 that I have to account for w/ PG + VG, depending on how I want it. Then figure I add a little extra flavoring, and that will bring down my nic. a bit from 20 which is fine. I've mostly been making small 6.5mL batches just like that, which fit fine in my old 5mL B&M bottles, which technically hold ~7mL.

You make it sound so easy

A couple of hours ago I was freaking out. Really, you folks are awesome and so helpful. Thank you for all the info.

The only reason I go for bigger bottles is because of the shipping costs. I'm in India and heck each order adds up $25 ($75 if DHL/Fedex/Aramex) to the total. Seriously, I've spent a hell lot of money just on shipping lol. Vaping hasn't been that cost-effective to me but overall, it is far better than throwing money on stinkies and developing health problems.

Oh well, I think I'll go with at least 500 ml of each PG and VG cuz it costs a little over 100 ml bottle I regularly buy with any given vendor

EDIT: And just in time as I was going to finally order stuff, RTS Vapes goes down for maintenance LOL. What is B&M?

 

[j3illy]

B&M = Brick and Mortar, as in an actual store w/ a physical location

 

[adrkaushal]

Sry, repeat post!

 

[adrkaushal]

Thanks j3illy,

Have you ever bought/used Ethyl Maltol with your DIY? Is it really necessary? I mean, what's the significance of this ingredient (or chemical?)? Don't the flavorings already have this ingredient?

And, do you really need Vodka/alcohol? I've seen a few Youtube videos where people mix Vodka drops to their DIY. Why they do that?

These questions are for anyone who has experience with DIY eLiquids.

 

[10x sugar]

B&M = bricks and mortar. Meaning an actual store that you can shop in verses an online store. Best of luck to you!

 

[NGAHaze]

Thanks j3illy,

Have you ever bought/used Ethyl Maltol with your DIY? Is it really necessary? I mean, what's the significance of this ingredient (or chemical?)? Don't the flavorings already have this ingredient?

And, do you really need Vodka/alcohol? I've seen a few Youtube videos where people mix Vodka drops to their DIY. Why they do that?

These questions are for anyone who has experience with DIY eLiquids.

Personally, I think it's a must have ... some folks don't care for it. Here is a link to some very good information that I think you will find quite useful:

E-Cigarette Forum - Hoosier - Blogs

I hope that helps! If you still have questions, don't be shy about putting them out there!

ETA: Forgot your vodka/alcohol question ... No, it's not necessary however it can add a bit of throat hit if that is something you are seeking.

 

[adrkaushal]

Personally, I think it's a must have ... some folks don't care for it. Here is a link to some very good information that I think you will find quite useful:

E-Cigarette Forum - Hoosier - Blogs

I hope that helps! If you still have questions, don't be shy about putting them out there!

ETA: Forgot your vodka/alcohol question ... No, it's not necessary however it can add a bit of throat hit if that is something you are seeking.

Thanks for the info NGAHaze!

Why do you think Ethyl Maltol is a must have? Do DIY vendors like RTS Vapes carry this ingredient with them? I read one of the old posts here that explained TA (Tobacco Absolute) and Ethyl Maltol uses and mixing percentages. Ethyl Maltol is used to enhance flavor?

I'll read every post on the blog link you gave .. right after I'm done with the long threads I've already opened lol.

If Vodka adds to TH, I'm buying it for sure. Can we use any vodka or a specific vodka should be used? Sorry, all sort of dumb questions clogging up my mind.

And, do you use sweeteners? Isn't the VG base already enough sweet? I mean, all of the juices I have ever purchased have always been sweet. I guess, vendors add some kind of sweetener. But the question, isn't VG/PG bases already enough sweet?

Thanks for all of the info, really appreciate a lot

 

[NGAHaze]

Thanks for the info NGAHaze!

Why do you think Ethyl Maltol is a must have? Do DIY vendors like RTS Vapes carry this ingredient with them? I read one of the old posts here that explained TA (Tobacco Absolute) and Ethyl Maltol uses and mixing percentages. Ethyl Maltol is used to enhance flavor?

I'll read every post on the blog link you gave .. right after I'm done with the long threads I've already opened lol.

If Vodka adds to TH, I'm buying it for sure. Can we use any vodka or a specific vodka should be used? Sorry, all sort of dumb questions clogging up my mind.

And, do you use sweeteners? Isn't the VG base already enough sweet? I mean, all of the juices I have ever purchased have always been sweet. I guess, vendors add some kind of sweetener. But the question, isn't VG/PG bases already enough sweet?

Thanks for all of the info, really appreciate a lot

You are most welcome! Sorry my response is so late, I didn't see your reply for a while.

Well, for me I find it adds a certain body to the mix. I think Hoosier describes it best as 'moisture and richness' ... it also can be used as sweetener although it's not as potent in that respect as an actual sweetener such as Sucralose which happens to be the sweetener I use when I use it; not very often. I find that when combined with flavors, PG, and VG, the mix is usually sweet enough already.

Any type of Vodka should suffice however I'd recommend one that is at least 100 proof or more. Pure Grain Alcohol (PGA) is another option however it is more expensive and can be hard to find if not impossible in some areas. No, not dumb questions at all! I think you are doing this exactly right ... researching, asking questions and getting your facts in order *before* you embark on your mixing journey.

As mentioned above, I rarely see the need to add sweeteners but there are some exceptions. I like to keep it on hand just in case.

As I'm sure you are aware, everyone's palate is different so what tastes good to me may not be so great for you. However that's part of the fun too, finding good mixes that work for YOU!

 

[adrkaushal]

You are most welcome! Sorry my response is so late, I didn't see your reply for a while.

Well, for me I find it adds a certain body to the mix. I think Hoosier describes it best as 'moisture and richness' ... it also can be used as sweetener although it's not as potent in that respect as an actual sweetener such as Sucralose which happens to be the sweetener I use when I use it; not very often. I find that when combined with flavors, PG, and VG, the mix is usually sweet enough already.

Any type of Vodka should suffice however I'd recommend one that is at least 100 proof or more. Pure Grain Alcohol (PGA) is another option however it is more expensive and can be hard to find if not impossible in some areas. No, not dumb questions at all! I think you are doing this exactly right ... researching, asking questions and getting your facts in order *before* you embark on your mixing journey.

As mentioned above, I rarely see the need to add sweeteners but there are some exceptions. I like to keep it on hand just in case.

As I'm sure you are aware, everyone's palate is different so what tastes good to me may not be so great for you. However that's part of the fun too, finding good mixes that work for YOU!

Very informational and interesting. Thanks NGAHaze

There are many reasons why I'm going with DIY. One reason is of course, lesser $$/ml. There's another reason, I'm always doubted about what merchants mix in the eLiquids. Till date, I've found only a couple of merchants fully mention what ingredients they use to make eLiquids. Obviously, when you get into R&D, you wont leave any stone unturned. Then the public demand, customers need everything in a liquid: Flavor, TH, Vapor production, hint of this and that, sweet, sour, and that elegant touch of this/that, that keeps them guessing what taste is that. I mean, how can anyone accomplish a good TH with 100% VG eLiquids? I doubt that can be accomplished without adding other ingredients. Well, I do understand, some flavors provide a better TH than others but then we gotta fiddle with the flavor percentages in order to make an ordinary eLiquid a special one. What I'm trying to say, merchants may go searching various different ingredients and use in the eLiquids. Not all are safe, not all are fully tested, etc etc. So I'm always wondering if a merchant promises good vapor production, good TH, good flavor in their VG/PG liquids, it requires explanation "what is in it?" that makes it do what it does.

For example, here's one merchant providing details what goes in their eLiquids ...

TOBACCO ESSENCIAL FLAVOR, VIRGINIA
TOBACCO ABSOLUTE, VIRGINIA
TOBACCO ABSOLUTE, BURLEY
ORIENT TOBACCO ABSOLUTE, TURKY
NICOTINE FROM TOBACCO LEAF
2, 3, 5-TRIMETHYLPYRAZINE
2, 3-DIMETHYLPYRAZINE
2, 5-DIMETHYLPYRAZINE
2-ETHYLPYRAZINE
2-ACETYLPYRAZINE
4-(2, 6, 6-TRIMETHYLCYCLOHEX-2-BUTENE-4-ONE)
4-(2, 6, 6-TRIMETHYLCYCLOHEX-3-BUTENE-4-ONE)
LINAL0OL
MENTHOL
METHYL BUTYRIC ACID (2-)
ROSE OIL,BULGARIAN,TRUE OTTO
VANILLA EXTRACT
OCTALACTONE(GAMMA-)
UNDECALACTONE(GAMMA-)
PURE WATER
VEGETABLE GLYCERIN or PROPYLENE GLYCOL
GLYCEROL

Do we really want all that? Leaves me with a huge jaw-drop and wondering, what in the name of Lord these guys are doing with all those chemicals/ingredients?

Please readers, I'm not trying to scare you off or throwing some scareware at you. I love ecigs and they are far far faaaar better than stinkies. But knowing what ingredients are mixed in the eLiquids is our right.

Coming to the conclusion, I do hope that I do not have to use any sweeteners or Ethyl Maltol or any other stuff and hoping that I get enough flavor, TH, vapor, etc with just the basic ingredients: Nic, VG, PG and flavors

I'd love to know if anyone has tried eLiquids from different stores and then started with their own DIY stuff. What differences did you find? Were you happy with buying eLiquids form the stores are happy with your own efforts in making your ADV? Did you have to use sweeteners, Ethyl Maltol, Vodka, etc? Or did you find enough satisfaction with just the basic ingredients?

Thank you for sharing your thoughts!