Concerned about additives in juices

[Dragon Lady]

I'm new to the "vape" world and even newer here.
I have some concerns and questions regarding the "Diactyl" additive in e-liquids. Does anyone know if this is also added to flavors. I make my own juice but I'm concerned about the flavors popssibly having this in them as well??? I inherited all my flavors and nicotine from my Son. The labels are very vague and he is active duty....so I ask you......
Does anyone know any companies that are organic or Diactyl free? If so can I get a list? Reference?
Thanx in advance......

 

[quickbot]

If im not mistaken Diacetyl is in almost every non organic flavorings. Here in this forums is an old post about diacetyl at the very first stages of vaping and someone explained that % of diacetyl is very small. Still it it what it is and ones who use 10-20% flavoring are exposed alot more than ones who use smaller flavoring %. I use only 1ml flavoring per 100ml base and avoid any and all colored flavors. Havnt read about this in a long time and im sure these days flavorings should be more safe, but still those bad chems are there even if they dont have any harm to our health....yet. Just use google about food grade coloring in flavors and other tests that have been made in last few years.

Flavors that may contain Diacetyl, are there really this many?

 

[NicotineRush]

Bull City adds cautions to many of their flavor listings.

or

 

[stols001]

Other than organic juices I'm unsure how to determine if dactyl is in flavorings, though some flavor makers will list that or not, it's just going to take a bit of research on your part, I think. I don't think that there is a particular flavor maker that never, ever uses them, unless you want to pay a premium for organic juices, which you may or may not wish to do? In which case, I would probably go to manufacturer's sites (not necessarily vendors) and contacting them. I doubt many would reveal all their proprietary lists of ingredients, though they may answer questions as to whether that compound is in them or not.

I will also say I do worry less about that issue than I used to, as really the study that was touted as being so informative did have some flaws. There are some flavors that don't agree with me (vanillas being one of them) that I avoid, but for the most part, I don't worry too much unless my body informs me that would be smart to do. Not saying that's what you need to do, but you may need to do a bit of research to get the information you need.

Anna

 

[Wraith504]

Ill take diacetyl over analogs any day.

 

[zoiDman]

I'm new to the "Vape" world and even newer here.
I have some concerns and questions regarding the "Diactyl" additive in e-liquids. Does anyone know if this is also added to flavors. I make my own juice but I'm concerned about the flavors popssibly having this in them as well??? I inherited all my flavors and nicotine from my Son. The labels are very vague and he is active duty....so I ask you......
Does anyone know any companies that are organic or Diactyl free? If so can I get a list? Reference?
Thanx in advance......

Hi Dragon Lady. Welcome to the ECF.

For DIY Flavorings, The Flavor Apprentice (TFA) has a pretty comprehensive list of what is in their Flavorings.

Perfumer's Apprentice

And they have a line of Flavorings denoted by the "DX" prefix that are Diketone Free.

exm...

Perfumers Apprentice - DX Bavarian Cream

It is also worth Noting that Many Flavorings Classes do Not Contain Diactyl (DA) or Acetyl Propionyl (Ap). And that DA and Ap are usually only found in Flavorings that have Creamy, Nutty and or Buttery notes to them.

Here is also some Information about what the ECTA believes are Expectable Levels when Da and Ap are present in an e-Liquid.

Testing | ECTA of Canada

 

[MJCSD]

Hello and Welcome to ecf

 

[Coastal Cowboy]

Diacetyl is a naturally occurring substance. It is produced in the highest quantities through the process of fermentation. It is one of the fermentation byproducts responsible for the nutty, banana-like and buttery bouquets and flavors of simply fermented wines and beers.

There have been studies suggesting a link between diketones like diacetyl and certain lung diseases but there is no definitive evidence showing a causal relationship. Diketones have been shown to be present in trace amounts in some flavorings.

As always, the poison is in the dosage. Even water and Oxygen will kill you if you get too much of it.

If you are concerned about potential health effects of diacetyl and other organic compounds in the diketone family, you should avoid flavored juice altogether.

 

[Hawise]

If you are concerned about potential health effects of diacetyl and other organic compounds in the diketone family, you should avoid flavored juice altogether.

Just thought I'd add that @Coastal Cowboy isn't (necessarily) being facetious here. A lot of people happily vape unflavoured juice. The VG gives it a light, slightly sweet flavour.

 

[Hobbs]

Good advice given and as mentioned, you may need to do some research. Just posting and asking is a GREAT start !!! Use the forum search engine for Diactyl. Search google. Lots of discussion and reports out there. I also like the sites that have cautions up front as was mentioned.

I'm one of the non-flavored vapers. Just pure pharmaceutical grade 50/50 PG/VG with generally 18mg/ml of Nicselect nicotine which is derived from organic tobacco (from Nicotine River). Is that totally safe? ... there's a strong consensus that it's hella safer than smoking.

At the end of the day, you alone will have to decide what's worth paying for to have in your lungs.

 

[sofarsogood]

Like one of the other posters I use 1% flavoring because it's enough. If there is anything concerning I'm getting less of it. I've also read that cigarettes have even more of these chemicals and no evidence smokers get sick because of that. I also vape at low power wiith temp control well below 420 F. It's what I prefer and may be it avoids products of combustion which have their own issues but which I believe comes out in the form of a foul taste. In a recen check up the doc says my lungs are not making any concerning sounds. That would not have been true when I was smoking which I would certainly still be doing except for vaping.

 

[capthook]

I'm new to the "Vape" world and even newer here.
I have some concerns and questions regarding the "Diactyl" additive in e-liquids.

Welcome to ECF Dragon Lady!!
Lots of good replies here!

DIY: avoiding diketones

I vape as harm-reduction vs smoking.
For further harm-reduction, I DIY my own juice and avoid diketones.

Diketones = DAAP = D)iacetyl, A)cetoin and A)cetyl P)ropionyl.

Diacetyl is the most concerning, but has been virtually eliminated as a direct primary component in flavors,
largely thanks to the outcry by the vaping public.
We spoke and the companies listened!

Acetoin and Acetyl Propionyl are the primary solutions to reformulating many of the flavors to eliminate Diacetyl.
However, they both can catalyze into trace amounts of Diacetyl.
So many avoid DAAP for the greatest attempt at harm reduction.

It can be difficult to find out which flavors are DAAP-free.
3 good resources are:

FlavourArt - FA:
This is a premium flavor vendor that caters to the vaping community.
Many of their flavors are the 'best in catagory' - although taste is subjective.
And virtually all - if not ALL, of their flavors are DAAP free.
They offer extensive lab results on their flavors and are the Platinum standard for transparency.
Their flavors are usually a bit more expensive than other brands.

The Flavor Apprentice - TPA:
They also offer extensive information on the ingredients in their flavors.
Their 'DX' line of flavors have been carefully formulated to avoid DAAP.

BullCityVapor - BCV:
They will usually give a visual warning on the flavor description page and then list the offending ingredient.
It can be a quick check of a flavors DAAP status.
Because of this, and their good prices and selection, they are a primary vendor for many.

 

[suprtrkr]

I use The Flavor Apprentice flavorings exclusively. I think they do a good job of reporting their contents.

 

[PapawBrett]

I do some DIY flavors myself, and I prefer shopping at Wizard Labs for my flavorings. They do a very good job there of reporting any inhalation hazards that might be associated with each flavor. You can do a lot better buying equipment elsewhere, but Wizard Labs is good for your flavors.

 

[mcclintock]

All or almost all flavor manufacturers claim diaceytl-free now, but of course that's only part of the spectrum. Some who have actually tried all of the butter notes have claimed here that of all of them diacetyl is the least irritating, you would not know if it was in there. The substitute Butyric Acid now often used is highly irritating and the prime flavor chemical also of vomit. Another post by a juice maker claimed that one should not vape yogurt flavors, for example, because these must contain butyric acid and other diketones and the butyric causes the other stuff to break down into diacetyl. In view of all of this I completely avoid reformulated "DX" or "V2" flavorings as they taste bad anyway and use smallish amounts of the originals. I re-mix juices constantly.

Someone from FlavourArt said there should be no actual butyric acid in their flavors, although it may be used somewhere in the processing. They claim diketone-free in all the flavors sold for vaping (e.g. their US site). The problem I found with their vanilla custard was it tastes like vanilla but not custard. I had to look at the label to figure out what juice I was vaping.

Tobacco smoke contains a lot of diacetyl, the question is are we vaping far less of it or not?

 

[Dragon Lady]

Other than organic juices I'm unsure how to determine if dactyl is in flavorings, though some flavor makers will list that or not, it's just going to take a bit of research on your part, I think. I don't think that there is a particular flavor maker that never, ever uses them, unless you want to pay a premium for organic juices, which you may or may not wish to do? In which case, I would probably go to manufacturer's sites (not necessarily vendors) and contacting them. I doubt many would reveal all their proprietary lists of ingredients, though they may answer questions as to whether that compound is in them or not.

I will also say I do worry less about that issue than I used to, as really the study that was touted as being so informative did have some flaws. There are some flavors that don't agree with me (vanillas being one of them) that I avoid, but for the most part, I don't worry too much unless my body informs me that would be smart to do. Not saying that's what you need to do, but you may need to do a bit of research to get the information you need.

Anna

 

[Dragon Lady]

Wow.....I'm impressed and very happy to be here! I'm not sure if this reply is to one person or if all can see, hopefully everyone.
I am in awe of the responses and the attention you have given me, the newbie!!! What a well informed and intelligent bunch you are!!! Thank you very much!
I am continually researching products and companies but you knocked a couple off my list and then again,added a couple more...
I thought I'd check in to see if my post was up and view-able.....what a great answer!!
Thanks again, "I'll be Back".... Gotta run.....no, not literally!!!

 

[BrotherBob]

I'm new to the "Vape" world and even newer here.
I have some concerns and questions regarding the "Diactyl" additive in e-liquids. Does anyone know if this is also added to flavors. I make my own juice but I'm concerned about the flavors popssibly having this in them as well??? I inherited all my flavors and nicotine from my Son. The labels are very vague and he is active duty....so I ask you......
Does anyone know any companies that are organic or Diactyl free? If so can I get a list? Reference?
Thanx in advance......

Welcome and glad you joined.
Your concern warrants merit.
"The main thing is to always think about the relative risk. Even with e-liquids that contain diacetyl, it’s still massively safer than smoking. There’s no question, the absolute "
Re: Confused about diacetyl? You should be / Vaping.com - Your One Stop Vapor Shop | vaping.com
"It's funny, we're all concerned if flavors have anything bad in them and yet we smoked for years knowing it was all bad. I'm going to be ...... if I get hit by a bus. My last thought is going to be "But God, I only vaped the good flavors."
http://..................com/threads/sweet-cream-substitute.94241/
A few countries can not all be wrong:
E-cigs 'definitely' safer than smoking
Vaping is the reason for massive decline in UK smoking / Vaping.com - Your One Stop Vapor Shop | vaping.com
Government legalises e-cigarettes in effort to make New Zealand smokefree by 2025
New Zealand un-bans vaping, says it's good for public health / Vaping.com - Your One Stop Vapor Shop | vaping.com

 

[Opinionated]

I couldn't breathe when I began vaping, almost literally. My lips and fingers would turn blue if I tried cleaning house, and I had to take several rest breaks just to make it to the mailbox - I was at the point where I felt like I was dying because I couldn't get enough oxygen.

I had tried quitting smoking multiple times (perhaps more like a plethora) using every possible means to quit - hypnosis, patches, chantix and more, to no avail. So, as a last resort I had heard of vaping and decided to give it a shot.

At the time, I was most concerned with getting away from the cigarettes. When I spoke to my doctor about it she said vaping was safer than smoking and to give vaping a shot - so I spent 10 dollars on a ego and ce4 combo and 5 dollars worth of e juice.

My determination to quit at that point was so great I managed to make it through the withdrawals I had (withdrawals which most people who switch on the newer vape gear never experience).. and became a non smoker.

So, I vaped. My breathing improved to the degree I couldn't remember ever breathing that good in my life (I had smoked since I was 13) and my health did a 180. I was so much better all the way around.

Through it all I never worried about what was in the e juice, whatever it was wasn't nearly as bad as what was in cigarettes, and it allowed my body to heal from the damage 32 years of smoking had done.

People talk about flavorings but I vape flavors and just don't care. My body healed - it wouldn't do that if what I was putting in it was as bad as what cigarettes were.

When I began doing DIY I found most the flavorings I use don't contain diacetyl in the first place, but if I want a flavor that might contain some, I'm just not worried about it - I do buy from Bull City Flavors so they do label what might, but whether a flavor has it or not doesn't phase me a bit. It just so happens most don't that I use, as a matter of course.

When you read up on diacetyl, the truth not fear mongering articles, I'm fairly certain it won't bother you either.

 

[amoret]

By the way,, I'm really prone to making excessively long posts. In this thread the first paragraph and the fourth are the ones actually related to the topic.

Most of the flavors I have been using aren't in

the groups most likely to have diacetyl and all of its relatives and friends. That said, I don't much care. I'm 66 and smoked ~2 packs a day for 42 years and my lungs still came out good on one of those intensive pre-surgery tests. I'd pretty much given up on giving up after trying all of the usual methods.

Then I got hit with a rare and totally random health problem* not at all related to my many bad habits. That left me disabled, and I really had to quit smoking because my hands couldn't reliably hold a burning cigarette - a very immediate health threat. (Ironically, three months after I switched to vaping we had a major chimney fire and lost the house.)

My first post at ECF was about what would work best for me with my hand problems, and the many good people here helped a lot, and steered me to the Innokin VV v3 since the square shape was easy for me to feel, and the very light weight easy to handle. Four years later that's still my favorite (I'm an unrepentant tootle puffer**) but It's pretty much gone from the markets these days so I'm having to branch out.

All of that said, I'm certain that whatever flavors I use I'm still way better off than I was when smoking. My lungs are still in great shape for someone who pretty much has to sit around doing nothing aerobic all day every day. The original scare about diacetyl was about a lung disease related to working full time in a microwave popcorn plant with very high exposure to the very high diacetyl artificial butter flavor used for that. I honestly don't think there's any danger in the tiny amounts we're exposed to, even from the 'bad' flavors. Though if you're young and healthy you might want to avoid those flavors just in case.

* Age of onset 6 months to 70, geographic distribution random, potential causes might be virus exposure - no particular type, or might not be.

** Tootle Puffer is a name originally given derisively to those of us who still enjoy vaping at low wattage, and who usually inhale MTL (mouth to lung instead of directly to lungs) but we made it our own.