Confusion between the A (Amp) rating and the batteries "R" rating.

Status
Not open for further replies.

Salt&PePPer

Super Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Jul 7, 2012
654
160
50
Bakersfield
Lately with the elevation of Amperage in batteries I've noticed that their is an increase into the Listing of the batteries R rating aswell. It's not uncommon for a vendor to list the battery's R rating instead of the cell's A or Amperage.

My question is what are the ratio's betwee A, amperage, and R rating's? At the moment I only speak Amps. When I see an advetisement on a webpage and there is no "A" rating but only an "R" rating... how should I proceed?

Thank you for your patience!
 

Jim_ MDP

Ultra Member
ECF Veteran
Sep 24, 2015
2,153
2,697
Yeah... I'm lost as well.

The only "R" I can think of would be the cell's "internal resistance" measurement.

While that directly affects it's capabilities as a high drain or high Amp battery, it's not a parameter we're often even aware of. I've only ever seen the measurements myself in a few of the test reports posted by folk like Batt Bro, Jon, or Mooch.
And then, generally only because it's atypical for the other claimed specs of that cell, ie: crap battery with a too high internal res.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Baditude

Baditude

ECF Guru
ECF Veteran
Apr 8, 2012
30,394
73,072
70
Ridgeway, Ohio
I also don't understand the question about "R" rating. Could you mean the "C Rating"?

The C rating unit can be a bit hard to understand. The C measurement indicates a current value relative to the batteries overall capacity. For instance, a 2,600 mAh battery with a maximum discharge rating of 1C can handle a maximum current draw of 2.6 amperes or 2,600 mAh; pretty simple. Change the rating to 2C and the maximum discharge rate is 5.2 amperes, 3C is 7.8 amperes, so on and so forth.​


The most important specs about a battery are the "maximum continuous discharge rating" (max amp rating) and the capacity (mah rating).

Guide to Battery Specification Terms:
Batteries can generally be broken down by two major characteristics: capacity (mah rating) and amps (current handling). When choosing which battery to buy you must pick which characteristic is your priority for the application that you will use it. You can't have both the highest mah and highest amps in one battery. This is due to the limits of current battery chemistry & technology. Safety should always be your number one priority.

Capacity or mAh Rating - an approximation for how long a battery charge should last from 100% charge to when the battery will cut off. Roughly, 100 mAh = 1 hour usage with low drain applications like a flashlight. It will be much lower with a high drain application like an advanced personal vaporizer.

Amp Rating - or "continuous discharge rate" (CDR), is the maximum electrical current at which the battery can be discharged continuously before the battery will fail. This specification is set by the manufacturer, and is a standard measurement in the industry. The "pulse or burst discharge rate" is not a standard measurement and varies from one manufacturer/vendor to another making comparisons from company to company impossible, and therefore should never be relied upon.

:danger: Beware of dubious marketing claims of over-rated battery amp ratings and mAh ratings by some disreputable vendors and manufacturers. These companies attempt to confuse consumers with "max amp" specs. Efest, IMREN, and the "---- Fire" brands are the worst perpetrators of this practice. Don't fall victim to their advertising scams.
Look for the continuous discharge rate (CDR). Burst or pulse ratings are just that, they can do a high amperage for 1-5 seconds, but more than that you begin to damage the cells. You want to choose batteries by their continuous rate, never for their burst. This is the danger of sub-ohming and not knowing the ins and outs of your batteries. There are no batteries with more than 30 amps CDR

The "best battery" is not always the one with the largest mAh rating. In most vaping applications a higher amp rating (CDR or continuous discharge rate) determines the better battery.

Deeper Understanding of Mod Batteries
 
Last edited:

edyle

ECF Guru
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Oct 23, 2013
14,199
7,195
Port-of-Spain, Trinidad & Tobago
Lately with the elevation of Amperage in batteries I've noticed that their is an increase into the Listing of the batteries R rating aswell. It's not uncommon for a vendor to list the battery's R rating instead of the cell's A or Amperage.

My question is what are the ratio's betwee A, amperage, and R rating's? At the moment I only speak Amps. When I see an advetisement on a webpage and there is no "A" rating but only an "R" rating... how should I proceed?

Thank you for your patience!

what are you talking about? what R rating?
 

Baditude

ECF Guru
ECF Veteran
Apr 8, 2012
30,394
73,072
70
Ridgeway, Ohio
Not sure why they would need to use a "R" as the zero on the end of 18650 is what represents battery shape, in this case cylindrical.
"What do all those numbers and letters really mean?
Battery identification can be one of the most difficult aspects of battery purchasing. All batteries are not created equal and just because two batteries are labeled IMR18650, does not mean they have the same capabilities, characteristics and safety features.

The batteries we use in e-cigarettes generally follow an industry defined identification scheme consisting of 3 letters followed by 5 numbers, -- IMR18650, ICR14500, NCR18650 etc. The first three letters indicate the battery's basic construction and capabilities. The following series of numbers indicate the batteries approximate physical size and shape.

The entire sequence can be broken down as such:
  • The first letter indicates the basic chemical makeup of the battery. "I" indicates the battery is a Lithium Ion class battery.
  • The second, and most important letter, indicates the material. "C" indicates the material as cobalt; "M" indicates manganese; "N" indicates nickel.
  • The third letter, "R" indicates it is a round shape.
  • Knowing this, "ICR" means Li-Ion/cobalt/round; "IMR" means Li-Ion/manganese/round. "INR" means Li-Ion/nickle/round. Using manganese or nickel makes the battery a "safer chemistry"."
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Mooch

Salt&PePPer

Super Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Jul 7, 2012
654
160
50
Bakersfield
Please excuses my question for now I see it as a little bit confusing. Besides my elementary studying of electronics R didn't make sense to me for I never saw it.

My only quesstion now is should I get an Aspire 1800 or 2500mAh 40A high Drain Batteries or the Sony 18650 VTC4 2100mAh High-drain Battery - 30 AMP?

And I got the above from the website Gotvapes dot com.
 

Salt&PePPer

Super Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Jul 7, 2012
654
160
50
Bakersfield
Thank you for this knowledge...
Battery identification can be one of the most difficult aspects of battery purchasing. All batteries are not created equal and just because two batteries are labeled IMR18650, does not mean they have the same capabilities, characteristics and safety features.

The batteries we use in e-cigarettes generally follow an industry defined identification scheme consisting of 3 letters followed by 5 numbers, -- IMR18650, ICR14500, NCR18650 etc. The first three letters indicate the battery's basic construction and capabilities. The following series of numbers indicate the batteries approximate physical size and shape.

The entire sequence can be broken down as such:
  • The first letter indicates the basic chemical makeup of the battery. "I" indicates the battery is a Lithium Ion class battery.
  • The second, and most important letter, indicates the material. "C" indicates the material as cobalt; "M" indicates manganese; "N" indicates nickel.
  • The third letter, "R" indicates it is a round shape.
  • Knowing this, "ICR" means Li-Ion/cobalt/round; "IMR" means Li-Ion/manganese/round. "INR" means Li-Ion/nickle/round. Using manganese or nickel makes the battery a "safer chemistry"."
[/QUOTE]
 

Topwater Elvis

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Dec 26, 2012
7,116
16,502
Texas
Please excuses my question for now I see it as a little bit confusing. Besides my elementary studying of electronics R didn't make sense to me for I never saw it.

My only quesstion now is should I get an Aspire 1800 or 2500mAh 40A high Drain Batteries or the Sony 18650 VTC4 2100mAh High-drain Battery - 30 AMP?

And I got the above from the website Gotvapes dot com.

Depends on what type of power device you're going to use them in and the resistance or power range you intend to vape.

For example; a regulated power device capable of 50W or less using a single 18650 has a wider choice of suitable batteries than a regulated dual battery that is capable of 200w
The correct battery for a mechanical would solely depend on the resistance range you intend to use.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Mooch

Baditude

ECF Guru
ECF Veteran
Apr 8, 2012
30,394
73,072
70
Ridgeway, Ohio
My only quesstion now is should I get an Aspire 1800 or 2500mAh 40A high Drain Batteries or the Sony 18650 VTC4 2100mAh High-drain Battery - 30 AMP?
Personally, I'd go for the Sony VTC4. The Sony is a safe chemistry (IMR hybrid) battery, while the Aspires are not a safe chemistry (ICR).

ICR and LiPo batteries can vent in flames and possibly explode when they go into thermal runaway, while IMR batteries generally only vent gas when they go into thermal runaway; thus IMR batteries are a "safer chemistry".

Battery Basics for Mods: IMR or ICR?

The 40 amp claim of the Aspire batteries is advertising hype, don't fall for it. There are no 18650 batteries with more than 30 amps CDR. There are no 18650 batteries with a genuine rating over 30A!

Mooch has done independent bench tests on the Sony and Aspire batteries:


 
Last edited:

Mooch

Electron Wrangler
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
  • May 13, 2015
    3,948
    15,459
    Please excuses my question for now I see it as a little bit confusing. Besides my elementary studying of electronics R didn't make sense to me for I never saw it.

    My only quesstion now is should I get an Aspire 1800 or 2500mAh 40A high Drain Batteries or the Sony 18650 VTC4 2100mAh High-drain Battery - 30 AMP?

    And I got the above from the website Gotvapes dot com.

    I also recommend the VTC4. The Aspire 1800mAh is actually a just good 20A battery but it gets very badly damaged at over 30A. The Aspire 2500mAh is rated 20A continuous/40A pulse by Aspire. I've only done some preliminary testing but it seems to test out to a bit less than a 20A battery.

    As @Baditude and @Salt&PePPer mentioned, the Aspire batteries are made from a more volatile battery chemistry. While they have passed all safety standard testing I feel that they need some more time to prove themselves safe when abused. That is only my personal opinion though.

    The VTC4 is a great 30A battery with great performance and is quite robust. It can take a lot of (electrical) abuse and has a long, proven record of working well in a variety of vaping setups. Just be sure to buy it from a known, reliable vendor as there are lots of fake VTC4's out there. Places like...

    Illumn
    Orbtronic
    IMRBatteries
    RTD Vapor
    Liion Wholesale
     
    • Like
    Reactions: Baditude

    Salt&PePPer

    Super Member
    ECF Veteran
    Verified Member
    Jul 7, 2012
    654
    160
    50
    Bakersfield
    Thanks for your replies. I just found out the R designation is a screw up on a specific retailers website. The just drop the A and let a Capital R float where the A should be.

    So I should do my best in getting a real VTC4 battery, a real one if I can find it.

    Again thank you.

    PS

    What are y´all's thought's onthe Efest Batteries such as the...
    Efest 18650-2100 MAH 38A Battery
    Efest 18650-2900MAH 35A Flat Top Battery?

    Further can a box mod or mech mod or whatever type of mod use a Flat Top Battery? I'm just trying to put it in my head how the battery makes the contacts.

     
    Last edited:

    Jim_ MDP

    Ultra Member
    ECF Veteran
    Sep 24, 2015
    2,153
    2,697
    I wish Efest would stick to chargers, I like their chargers.
    Neither of those batteries has a continuous discharge rating (CDR) near what those claims say, it's a "pulse" rating. Given that... there's no really knowing the capabilities without testing.
    Avoid them like the plague I do.

    Battery tops... all 18650 regulated mods use flat tops (all of mine at least). The "button top" adds a bit to the length so they should be usable in tube mech mods, especially "telescoping" models... but not required. Just a guess... I can't use 'em, don't have 'em.
     
    Last edited:
    • Like
    Reactions: Baditude

    Baditude

    ECF Guru
    ECF Veteran
    Apr 8, 2012
    30,394
    73,072
    70
    Ridgeway, Ohio
    What are y´all's thought's onthe Efest Batteries such as the...
    Efest 18650-2100 MAH 38A Battery
    Efest 18650-2900MAH 35A Flat Top Battery?

    Further can a box mod or mech mod or whatever type of mod use a Flat Top Battery? I'm just trying to put it in my head how the battery makes the contacts.
    The problem with Efest, is they are notorious for over-rating their battery specs, as Jim implied above. Purple Efest Batteries: Not As Advertised

    Efest doesn't even make the batteries they sell, they merely re-brand (or re-wrap) the bare cells of other manufacturers. So in effect, you really don't have any way of knowing what cell is actually inside of their wrapping, or what the real specifications of their batteries are. Only via independent bench tests per @Mooch and others are we aware of over-rated Efest specifications.

    In general, it doesn't matter if a battery is flat or button topped, UNLESS the manufacturer of the mod specifies you should use one or the other. For example, the older versions of the Provari required the use of button top batteries as that was their design to provide reverse battery protection.
     
    Last edited:
    • Like
    Reactions: Mooch
    Status
    Not open for further replies.

    Users who are viewing this thread