consistent policies

[critterbug]

OK, this is a follow-up to Michelle's thread re: order again

I just wanted to post my experience. I must say that, overall, I <3 (for lack of an even cornier term) Mark and V4L. That said, it does seem like there are some inconsistent policies. I just want to agree, constructively, that V4L would benefit from consistent policies. I do not want to have to escalate a cs response because, well, it makes me feel like a heel. And I don't like feeling like a heel. But for the sake of principle, I'll do it every time.

Here's my experience - and it wasn't great. The outcome was good, but I felt like a jerk. And it marred what I thought was a lovely relationship. The main reason I was irked was because I didn't realize it was standard policy to return defective equipment before receiving a replacement. In fact, I had read numerous times here that it wasn't. However, I was willing to send the defective stuff back. Honestly, I've had a few items conk out, but because I really like V4L and feel that the freebies balance things out, I've been reluctant to mention them. But, like I said below, passthroughs are just... essential...

I just have to agree that consistent policies among all is really important. I'd hate to lose the personalized feel that V4L provides, but I think that as you grow, there has to be increased formalization. Unfortunately or fortunately, whatever side of that you're on.

------------------------This kinda goes downhill----------------

From: [moi - omitted]
Sent: Monday, February 15, 2010 4:36 PM
To: 'orders@vapor4life.com'
Subject: Order#: 19454

Hi guys,

The [new style] manual passthrough I ordered on Feb 1st hast died. I'd be happy to return it to you if you want it for troubleshooting.

My next order will be coming when you get the butterscotch juice in. Do you know when you'll be getting some more?

Thanks! You guys are great!
[moi]

-----Original Message-----
From: customer_service@vapor4life.com [mailto:customer_service@vapor4life.com]
Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 1:42 PM
To: [omitted]
Subject: RE: [Ticket#469-8970] FW: Order#: 19454

Hi [omitted],

We hope to have the butterscotch juice in the next week or so. When you order that, please make a note in your comments about your usb passthru dying. We'll send you a replacement.

Val

-----Original Message-----
From: [omitted]
Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 9:19 PM
To: 'customer_service@vapor4life.com'
Subject: RE: [Ticket#469-8970] FW: Order#: 19454

Hi Val,

Thank you for your response. My auto passthrough died today, too. Is there any way you guys can send me replacements? I do not know when I will be ordering again - waiting on the butterscotch juice or butterscotch premium cartos. But I am without passthroughs. That's no way to be.

Anyway, as I said before, I would be happy to return them both to you guys. I don't need them and think maybe it would be good if I return them to you so you can figure out whatsagoinon.

Thanks -

-----Original Message-----
From: customer_service@vapor4life.com [mailto:customer_service@vapor4life.com]
Sent: Thursday, February 18, 2010 2:02 AM
To: [omitted]
Subject: RE: [Ticket#469-8970] FW: Order#: 19454

Hi there,

You can ship back the defective passthrus to the address below. Please include a note with the order #(s) that they're from and request replacements. We will ship them out upon receiving them.

Val

-----Original Message-----
From: me
Sent: Thursday, February 18, 2010 7:17 AM
To: 'customer_service@vapor4life.com'
Subject: RE: [Ticket#469-8970] FW: Order#: 19454

Val,

I wasn't expecting for you to wait until you received them to ship the replacements. I thought I was sending them back as a courtesy, not a requirement. However, they are on their way. And come to think of it, I have a dead batt that isn't 2 months old yet. On their way!

[me]

-----Original Message-----
From: customer_service@vapor4life.com [mailto:customer_service@vapor4life.com]
Sent: Thursday, February 18, 2010 1:37 PM
To: [omitted]
Subject: RE: [Ticket#469-8970] FW: Order#: 19454

The replacement is in the mail today for you.

Thanks,

Mark

----------------
Good outcome. It was just a really unpleasant experience compared with everything else V4L. I hate asking for the manager...

 

[Belletrist]

critterbug--i think you summed it up pretty well, that the problem isn't in intention or in resolving an issue, cause their intentions are pretty clear (keep us happy) and i've never seen them not come through. but it's confusing when they don't typically require returns to say "we'll ship them when we get it back" when they already offered to simply include it on another order. i hate asking for the manager too. i mean, i don't so much mind asking for mark, lol, since he's familiar to me, but i hate to be a bother or feel like i'm being difficult. hammering out a consistent policy would be great.

 

[bornagainst]

I think Mark summed up the issue well with the last thread.

Do we really need another?

With growing pains comes a shift in how things are done. Changes will happen, but damn, allow a process to occur.

I remember when this subforum was about fun and support...now it seems to have been overtaken by people who just enjoy the sound of their own voice.

 

[nbourbaki]

I think Mark summed up the issue well with the last thread.

Do we really need another?

With growing pains comes a shift in how things are done. Changes will happen, but damn, allow a process to occur.

I remember when this subforum was about fun and support...now it seems to have been overtaken by people who just enjoy the sound of their own voice.

I thought the OP was mostly positive and respectful. I view the post in the support category. I think your response was a little harsh.

BTW Where's the juice?????

 

[clexxi]

If someone has a gripe they should be allowed to express it because

maybe it's happenning to others. Communication is a good thing.

Ultimately, we all benefit.

 

[bornagainst]

I agree that with the best of intentions, you are right....the OP has a post that is valid and needs to be heard.

No harshness intended.

What I am concerned with is that this thread is just going to turn into the other thread...just with a different title.

Then no one benefits.

 

[dohsma]

We are actually in the process of drafting a new policy regarding returns/exchanges/warranty issues. This is not in response to this thread or the one from yesterday. We actually had a meeting yesterday morning to work on it, I have to draft the policy and post it to the web site. It should be up within a week and this will clarify how we will be handling all issues moving forward.

 

[Kimmy]

this is what usually happens, the OP starts a thread with a legitimate polite concern about policies, and then it will end up turning in to an all out
b-fest. In the end, no one wins.

I have no doubt in my mind V4L is working out their policies and all the concerns that were already addresed in the previous thread, these changes will not happen over night, but will be fixed eventually.

 

[nbourbaki]

Mark, I think that would go a long way on setting expectations. You may be a victim here of your own largess. So many great stories of fantastic customer service, when someone doesn't get the full treatment, it results in confusion and bad feelings. A clear set of guidelines will help people understand everyone's responsibilities.

 

[dohsma]

Mark, I think that would go a long way on setting expectations. You may be a victim here of your own largess. So many great stories of fantastic customer service, when someone doesn't get the full treatment, it results in confusion and bad feelings. A clear set of guidelines will help people understand everyone's responsibilities.

That what we're working for. We will always focus on treating our customers right... so that will not change. But there will be a policy in place to minimize misunderstandings.

 

[Belletrist]

We are actually in the process of drafting a new policy regarding returns/exchanges/warranty issues. This is not in response to this thread or the one from yesterday. We actually had a meeting yesterday morning to work on it, I have to draft the policy and post it to the web site. It should be up within a week and this will clarify how we will be handling all issues moving forward.

perfect.

 

[geeker]

Here is something I see as a problem.
They can set their basic return policies and procedures that will apply 99.9% of the time to 99.9% of customers.
But then someone will receive service BEYOND what is stated in their policy.
Then that person will come here to give praise and thanks, then EVERYONE will expect that treatment.
It's the same with the freebies.
Someone comes here to let us know what fabulous and generous freebies they have received.
Maybe they order once a week...
Maybe they order $1000 worth of supplies at a time...
Maybe they have developed a friendship with the company...
Who knows?
Then the schlub like myself doesn't get anything near what the generously begifted purchaser does.
Then people get upset.

My point being, V4L, and any supplier for that matter, is not exactly served well by doing anythin extra for anybody if that anybody is going to come here to spread their joy.
The next guy down the line is probably not going to get what they got.

 

[Belletrist]

but if there are basic policies to begin with--clear, posted policies--that is a huge help. i think. so i'm glad that's in the pipeline.

 

[Stephra]

I hope I'm not ruffling any feathers by throwing in my two cents. I've been working retail my whole life, and I have to agree that consistent policies benefit both the business and the customer.

I currently work in a video store. We are constantly dealing with small problems for customers, and the type of problem dictates the response.

If a customer gets a damaged movie, it gets replaced as soon as they return it, or they get a credit for later. But the damaged movie has to come back first, and they get a replacement for the same title.

If they get the WRONG movie, it gets replaced without question, at the customer's convenience. (This is because we, as cashiers, should be reading and confirming the titles to every customer at the point of sale. If we screw up by not doing so, it's OUR fault, not the customer's.)

If we fail to remove the security locks from the movie cases, we tell customers that we will give them a brand new rental, extend the time on the rental after fixing it, or they can just CUT the damn case open, whatever THEY prefer. Again, that's because WE SCREWED UP - the customer shouldn't have to eat our mistake.

My personal opinion is that any human error on the business' side should be resolved without further requirement from the customer. This would be mis-packed orders, missing items, etc. Equipment failure should be a simple exchange by mail. I also think this would be a lot simpler with UPS where the business could send the customer a call tag for the return. At any rate, the correction of the problem should not cost the customer extra money, either in postage or placing another order.

PLEASE NOTE that I am not complaining in any way. We've received our orders correct and complete up til now (my only complaint is USPS, which is failing to do their part of the job properly, at least as far as our deliveries are concerned). I'm just throwing out my own observations from many years of dealing with customers and how retail policies affect them. I think movie rentals are a similar beast to V4L's product in that customers will be coming back for product again and again, rather than a once-and-done purchase, and often the problem is solved easier by telling the customers that they can get it corrected on their next trip in, rather than making them come to the store right then and there to fix it.

The options for resolution should ALL be put in front of the customer, so they can choose which suits them best. If something is an option, put it out there on the table where customers can see it. Don't make them fish around for it. Just my $.02

 

[Pawpaw]

That what we're working for. We will always focus on treating our customers right... so that will not change. But there will be a policy in place to minimize misunderstandings.

I think that is a great idea. It might also be good to print that policy (or a synopsis of it) on the bottom of the paper that comes with the order. This would be especially helpful for new customers.

Just my $.02.

 

[critterbug]

geeker I was thinking about that this morning. Having a public forum is both a positive and a negative. On the one hand, it's great publicity. I, for one, would have ended up with GreenSmoke first if I had not visited ECF. I have always been happy with my VK, so I am really happy the forums are here. On the flip side, complaints are just as instantaneous as praise, and so the cycle goes. As you pointed out, even the praise has a downside because it leaves some feeling like the red-headed stepchild. And, while research shows that treatment of red-headed stepchildren has significantly improved in the last decade... wait. who dat in my head.


Born, your loyalty is hardcore and I respect that. I'd wager that you have never been in a position in which you have been disappointed by V4L. My hope for the policies is that they would ensure that everyone has *your* experience, not mine or that of anyone else who felt that their treatment (even if only on one occasion) was below the V4L standard.

 

[maxx]

Just a point of internet forum parliamentary procedure...nothing to do with e-cigs or even V4L specifically.

We really shouldn't be posting private communications in open forum when those communications are with other members of the same forum. Seeing this more and more often and it is a bit unnerving. I certainly wouldn't want to come in one day and see one of my personal messages/emails up for all to see and parse.

This speaks nothing to the particular issue at hand concerning V4L warrantee/return policy...whether it is right or wrong. Just a procedural thing...

 

[wisteelersfan]

Personally, I don't see the giant issue here. People make mistakes and the folks at V4L seem more than willing to make up for it. I had the wrong juice in an order, sent an email and let them know I didn't plan on another order for a little while since I've been buying like mad, and Val sent an email the next day saying the right juice is on it's way. Simple and painless. And for the record, I sent my email yesterday and Val got back to me today. Try and find good customer service anywhere on a weekend. Especially on the net. A patience and understanding goes a long way IMO.

 

[curiousJan]

Just a point of internet forum parliamentary procedure...nothing to do with e-cigs or even V4L specifically.

We really shouldn't be posting private communications in open forum when those communications are with other members of the same forum. Seeing this more and more often and it is a bit unnerving. I certainly wouldn't want to come in one day and see one of my personal messages/emails up for all to see and parse.

This speaks nothing to the particular issue at hand concerning V4L warrantee/return policy...whether it is right or wrong. Just a procedural thing...

In fact I believe there is a forum rule covering this very thing. It concerns me as well, maxx. Unless permission has been explicitly sought for the publish of private email, it is poor form to do so ... no offense whatsoever intended to the OP, just mho.

Jan

 

[AllCoExPat]

I think forums like this are a fine place to vent our frustrations. Of course there's a bit of a twist...

Hopefully V4L takes everything said here, good and bad, with a lump or ten of salt. Forum posters, myself included, tend to fall into two broad camps - fanboys and those who have an axe to grind (real or imagined, doesn't matter). Plenty of the fanboys (and I include myself in that camp) can't do enough to sing the praises of a company we have come to identify with... but are we really the core of the business? Sure, most of us order multiple times a month and may even drop large orders when we do... but do we represent the majority or the customer base? My guess (and it's purely a guess) is that most people who buy from V4L never see a forum, let alone post on one. That's your "average" consumer - they want what they pay for, no fuss, no muss - simple and quick. That's my simple way of saying that we're probably the (very vocal) outliers in the e-cigarette movement.

I tend to think that V4L has all of us a little spoiled by the CS that we have been getting... the freebies, the no-send-back rule, responding to issues almost instantly through multiple channels (email, PM, voice) etc. That being said, if it were my company, I'd put a very simple and easy to understand refund/exchange policy in place and I'd police it mercilessly. I'd also formalize how "freebies" are given out based on $ spent per order - That way no one can claim "unfair" treatment. The "one door" to CS should be through the customer service email address - this allows tracking of every issue by assigning a case number and give V4L the ability to do root-cause analysis of where things are going badly over time. It would be a shock to the system for those of us who have gotten use to corresponding informally with the "company brass," but it would benefit them in the long run as they grow.

Anyway, that's my Sunday afternoon quarterbacking of the issue. Take it with plenty of salt.